Arthmoor Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 http://www.creationkit.com/File:Papyrus.xmlNot sure if that's what you're after or not.Er, but I bet this is: http://www.creationkit.com/Notepad%2B%2B_Setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yes! Thank you *hugs* You need a hugs or wub emote, Grumpy. :tongue: The horror, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I think you guys will be pleasantly surprised by the power of the CK too. And probably a bit overwhelmed at some of the new stuff. The dialogue system is uber-complex now and is going to take ages to get used to.Yeah, it's going to take awhile to figure out where to make the changes for Skyrim Derailed. I think I might have a good location for the Civil War stuff (removing a few lines from Balgruuf and changing conditions on a couple others might suffice, since the only thing stopping the CW quests from progressing are conditional dialogue intercepts). I'll take a whack at it over the weekend.Helluva first project, though, I get to acclimatize to the two things that Beth made ultra-complicated first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Well trust me, this isn't any easier trying to track down how castle court events take place. Markarth was a bitch. I can't find the trigger point for how the NPC gets into Solitude to start the Wolfskull Cave thing. I had planned to bypass that, but that's too big a quest to take out of the system just because you're getting the house right away. Deciphering this shit with the new alias system they laid on top of it all is mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ysne58 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Portal 2 in Skyrim????? Well, since that was put out by Beth and Valve together, it's going to really rein in some of the criticism's about lore friendliness. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 http://www.creationkit.com/File:Papyrus.xmlNot sure if that's what you're after or not. Er' date=' but I bet this is: http://www.creationkit.com/Notepad%2B%2B_Setup[/quote']Thanks for the info there. I've got Notepad++ all set for Papyrus now (save the syntax highlights, but I can live without that).EDIT: For those who might be confused about the PSC file extension Bethesda is using for the script sources, there is nothing special about it, they can be opened in basic notepad if you feel inclined to try. Unfortunately, Notepad++ does not have a default option to save a file as PSC, so you will need to change or specify the extension manually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Ugh. So is it just me or does the new dialogue system not make a lick of sense?Er, well ok. Epiphany. The dialogue views system made laying it all out nice and simple. I bet it's because there's no audio that nothing is working when I try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So you'd have to create silent voice files? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 No, turned out you can't simply make an info record with no response text. So the dialogue based menu works. I haven't turned on subtitles yet to see if you can read the words, but I doubt it, the menus are cycling far too quickly for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 That's the same as the Oblivion CS then. Basically the player can't get the last word in. We had to use an ellipsis when we had an NPC that didn't say anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 You can probably use a blank space. The info record menu lets me type one in, and I don't think that worked in Oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 No it didn't - it stripped it out in Oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 GAH! Scriptname TIF__0200C74B Extends TopicInfo Hidden Yeah, I'll bet anyone who realizes the implications of non-unique topic script fragments can see the disaster looming here. Unique filenames, how do they work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Are you saying that you have to name the topic info scripts to match the form ID based on your load order??? Can't be.Unless those don't change on load order. Might just have to be unique to your mod. It might append an identifier on to that so that it's truly unique. At least that's what we hope happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 No, you're not getting it. When you create the script, that filename is assigned automatically by the CK. Remember, ALL scripts are stored as external files. ALL OF THEM. So if my mod has TIF__0200C74B for a script, it's filename is TIF__0200C74B.psc in the source folder and TIF__0200C74B.pex in the compiled scripts folder.If your mod generates one with the same ID (and thus the same filename), BOOM, your file now supersedes mine, and we both tear our hair out wondering WTF happened here. With no way to correct it, because that formID is the ID of the INFO record itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So if I'm understanding correctly, those TIF_XXXXXXXX scripts are the scripts you compile as Papyrus fragments when setting up quest dialogue?If that is so, what the fuck was the problem with storing that stuff in the plugin like the previous games did?That is going to make MQ alterations a living hell assuming it simply spits out the same name for the script I'm altering. If I alter one quest's dialogue scripts and then another guy does the same thing to the same quest, now the mods are incompatible because they are overwriting each other's scripts. Grr!!! :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: EDIT: Fuck. I was right. Bethesda, you idiots.... Thankfully each individual fragment is unique, but woe unto the user who tries to use two mods altering the same quest script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Well yes, that's the other huge negative with this. Awesome potential in the scripting, disastrous execution in the storage method.Doubly disastrous because anyone can end up churning out files that start with 01 or 02 on the form index, and the other 6 digits are entirely random. So I make a TIF__0200C74B that sets one of my menu variables. Someone else makes a TIF__0200C74B that burns down Dawnstar because you angered a god. Result?1. Someone using my alt-start mod wonders why they're not where they expected, then finds out Dawnstar has been burned to ash and blames me for tricking them into downloading a bad mod.2. Someone is intentionally trying to provoke that god's anger and instead ends up executing a script, that to them, does nothing. Dawnstar is still in one piece, but by God, my variable got updated!I can already see the possibility of everyone and his uncle fighting over who gets to alter MQ101, the game's startup quest. Oh yeah. It's gonna get UGLY in the alt-start arena.Oh, and fixing it? Impossible. You have no control over the formID generation inside the CK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I totally forgot that the scripts are stored externally. I was thinking it was all internal to the plugin.Great way to take a good idea and totally fuck it up. I've never see such a mess...I think you should report this to Bethesda and see what they have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Already have. I don't think they've seen the report yet.This, combined with the navmesh bug, is going to be enough to totally cripple the modding community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Yes I saw that one too. And watched that damned video... That jackass just likes to listen to himself talk, doesn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hana Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Were these reported during the beta testing and they released it anyway?I'm real glad right now that I won't be Skyrim modding. Sounds like a pain in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 The clashing filenames thing wasn't even noticed, because the beta period wasn't long enough to get to this sort of thing. My alt-start mod was going the route of using message boxes a the time (which don't work right either).I saw the odd behavior occasionally with OCS, but assumed it to have been due to adding it without waiting the necessary 24hrs. So I wasn't aware it was actually a problem during the beta.Giskard is a jackass, yes, but even utter jackasses can be right. On this issue, he's 100% right. Bethesda has had this bug manifested since Fallout 3 apparently. Which I didn't know, not having done anything that required navmeshing.As far as not modding Skyrim, we'll miss ya on this side of the fence. Reconsider some day, won't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Yeah, it's just that he could have gotten to his point in a minute or two versus that annoying mess of a video. No wonder Beth keeps ignoring him...Anyway hopefully they'll fix it. Are they still looking at bugs? I saw a whole bunch that appeared to be assigned to Beth on the bug tracker. Skyrim is much higher profile than FO3, so maybe they will this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 They keep ignoring him because he hasn't actually reported it. One thing we should all have learned about Giskard by now is that he's a full blown troll, and trolls won't seek to eliminate what they're trolling about. He's used arguments like this before as fodder for launching into tirades FILLED with bullshit information.I suppose it is possible that since Bethesda knows he's like this that anything he reported would have been tossed out as invalid. Consider that this is the first time many of us have even heard about it, or experienced it, and know how to replicate it. The Fallout community is filled with people who don't know their asses from holes in the ground and couldn't give you a proper bug report if they tried. There are obviously some who do know how to deal with it, but they simply dealt with it via the tools available and were content to continue doing so. Me, I'd much rather get it fixed properly so nobody needs the tool to fix it to begin with.That said, Jesus Christ, we need TES5Edit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Very very true, unfortunately.And there's another issue. I told the guys in the thread to report it to Gstaff - is that the proper process?Edit: Actually they've started an unofficial bug thread. And people are PM'ing Gstaff, whether that's the proper process or not. :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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