Arthmoor Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Oh, you have no idea how much it sucks.Also, interesting tidbit on the Steam forums. Leads me to wonder if this Windhelm problem I ran into isn't actually being caused by OCS, but is instead a dormant vanilla bug that OCS simply inflamed.Totally separate from the mess patch 1.5 has made of course since the first user there reported this back in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ysne58 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Oh' date=' you have no idea how much it sucks.Also, interesting tidbit on the Steam forums. Leads me to wonder if this Windhelm problem I ran into isn't actually being caused by OCS, but is instead a dormant vanilla bug that OCS simply inflamed. Totally separate from the mess patch 1.5 has made of course since the first user there reported this back in November. Makes me think of that Bruma statue glitch. I wonder if it is something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I suspect this is due to various quests altering the state of the city as they progress. I had crashes when I approached Riften when I was doing the TG quest in which you had to meet Karliah in the cistern, so you couldn't use the graveyard entrance at that time. I thought it might be due to OCS, but now I'm not so sure.Windhelm has a similar issue if you manage to get Blood on the Ice to trigger. I wouldn't be surprised if that quest was ready to kick in or had done so already.Whiterun also has city state changes. It would be interesting to look closer at the quests that are active when these crashes occur.Arthmoor, I don't know. I don't think OCS is dead and I think you should wait until you have the tools to investigate things further. Don't give up yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 The thing is, Windhelm was the only place giving me fits up until 1.5 beta came along. It made no difference whether it was a freshly created character or one of my 3 veterans at various stages of things. The city simply could not be approached on foot.Now 1.5 beta comes along and I can't get into Whiterun at all without fast travel, can't get into Riften period, and of course Windhelm is still off limits. It also doesn't matter if it's a freshly created character or one of my veterans. The state of the war isn't relevant either. Removing OCS from the load order is the only thing that returns stability to the game, even if I remove it while standing IN one of the affected cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Got to be the navmesh bug then, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Yep. I'm thinking that it's possible the game runtime has received a fix for it but the mod still has incompatible data. Which I can't fix until the CK is updated to go with it. I hope this is the case, because given the choice between scrapping the whole thing and merely scrapping the navmeshes, it should be obvious which I'll choose. Even though the navmeshes will probably set me back 2 weeks. They take THAT long to set up by hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 So is the Grumpy Lizard a Sad Lizard now? As you say though, better than scrapping the whole mod. Do you think they've fixed the navmesh bug though? You'd think they would say so. Unless they're not quite sure they nabbed it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Or they're not going to say until the CK also gets patched? Remember, the navmesh bug has two facets. One which happens in the CK. The other which happens at runtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I hope they patch the CK soon. I haven't installed the 1.5 beta yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Anyone feel like taking a crack at the OCS update? You'll need 1.5 first. Pretty sure the game is to blame, but I'd like to know if fast traveling between Riften and Whiterun provokes a CTD. You'll have to try that at least twice to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I'll give it a go. I was holding off on updating, but there's no word from Elys yet, so I'm going to go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Good and bad news: Bad:- debris appears in Whiterun again. Without OCS, no debris. With OCS, debris is back. Gates worked ok and NPC's were fine - other than trying to get around debris.- fast travel to Windhelm stables. Walk across bridge to city gate: kaboom. Can confirm the crash when approaching Windhelm. Good:- fast travel to Riften works fine. I couldn't do this before. So I suspect it was another issue with the navmesh bug. Now while you can fast travel to Riften on horseback, I don't recommend it. Trying to navigate Shadowmere around those narrow walk-ways is not fun. Fast travel to the stables and walk from there. :tongue: All the NPC's were fine, although I thought there were upset at Shadowmere at first. I think there was a critter in town that had them all upset. Shadowmere was agitated too.- fast travel to stables outside Markarth and walking into city was fine. I figured trying to bring Shadowmere into the city would be even worse than bringing him into Riften. There is a weird graphical glitch when open the Markarth gates though. I guess it initially loads the LOD and then switches? It's quite jarring, but not game breaking, other than the bad stutter while it switches. Note this glitch isn't new - it's happened from the start with OCS, I just didn't bother mentioning it before. I think I read somewhere that you knew it was a problem already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 What about if you fast travel to Riften, walk around, then fast travel to Whiterun and walk around (debris issues aside) then try and fast travel back to Riften? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Ok, I'll try that. My initial test started just outside of Whiterun. I ran into the city, than back out again and fast travelled to Riften. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hmmm, yeah, fast travelling from Riften to Whiterun caused a crash. I fast travelled from just outside Whiterun (the stables actually) to the Riften stables. Ran into the city - everything was fine. Then left and fast travelled to Whiterun stables - kaboom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yeah, ok. So that's definitely still an issue. I'll check and see if walking back in on foot changes anything, but regardless of what gives where, obviously I have to excise Windhelm and start that city over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mael Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 YOUR MOD SUCKS. MY FPS IN RIFTEN DROPPED AT LEAST 16FPS! It really did. But I have the HD texture pack installed and am running some decently high settings on a 260 with an older dual core, of course it's going to lose some FPS trying to render all of Riften and what's outside on the LoD. People sure do whine a lot.That being said, I had to uninstall it because I kept getting attacked by dragons inside Riften and dropping to like 5FPS. My computer's fault, but it made it fairly annoying.Exciting!I don't have 1.5 yet. When I get that I'll grab the latest OC update and do some play testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mael Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Tohohoho, I left a comment on SkyNex for you and your fans. I'm starting a brand new game, fresh install right now, so if you want me to test anything in 1.5.26 with OC3.4, let me know. I've got ICQ on for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 Nothing much to test really.Your post on Nexus about your GPU not agreeing with Riften might be because there's a bunch of duplicated elements I wasn't aware had been duplicated. I wouldn't doubt it one bit if that generated lag. This engine doesn't much care for overlapped objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mael Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Good to know. I will assassinate more Riften guards then. Maybe that will help. If not, it's still for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mael Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Walked into Markarth and watched the assassination, but there was no victim. The guy just stabbed the jewelry cart. Those Forsworn really don't like jewelry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Ah, the ever present "scene plays without all actors" issue. Though I've never seen it happen myself, I've heard about it. Someone once said the scene in Dragonsreach when you first arrive to talk about Helgen can play without the Jarl being there. So you get all these weird one-sided conversation snippets, then quests completing and starting out of nowhere. Bizarre.Related note, another nasty showed up. There's a trigger box sitting over Whiterun who's intent is to disable the LOD lighting when you're in close to the city. Guess who didn't realize it was set to "trigger on all" and thus cheese wheels in the marketplace were setting it off every frame Not good for the scripting stack. Let's just say it contributes heavily to lag in Whiterun if it's broken. Which has now been fixed (but not uploaded yet), and even the load times on a fresh start inside Breezehome have dropped.I think it's safe to conclude that Papyrus, as a new system, is suffering the same problems the Morrowind scripting engine had when it was still new. One false step and your whole game can bog down badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 BTW, that fix is uploaded now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mael Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 What about my Riften fix?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 That's in there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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