TES V: Skyrim

[Arthmoor]

The script in question for USKP was this one: USKPCWCampLeadersFixScript.psc. It was popping up about as often as the errors for my own. Both of which were phantom scripts.

Oh, so .... wait. Did he actually uninstall the USKP at some point? I can see exactly why he's having that problem. Kivan used a regular RegisterForUpdate() call instead of a RegisterForSingleUpdate() that gets called on repeatedly. Anyone uninstalling the USKP is going to hit that. Damned Papyrus indeed.This probably should have been handled as an OnDeath() event on either Tulius or Ulfric rather than the blanket update every 37 seconds this is doing behind the scenes until one of them is killed. Annoying though, because obviously fixing this isn't going to be easy. How does one go about terminating a rogue update you don't actually want updating anymore?The upside I suppose is that at least the USKP error will go away for him if he installs the patched update for 1.6. Which apparently needs an update again because the race fixes are out of sync with Update.esm.

[Hana]

Tomorrow! Tomorrow!

[Dwip]

The ME3 Extended Cut DLC and the reward packs for Op: Savage? Yeah, it's gonna be great! Really hoping I can pull an N7 Valiant and not another level on my N7 Eagle......oh, you mean the Xbox exclusive DLC. Much less exciting here in PC land. (tell us if it's cool)

[Arthmoor]

Also tell us if they got all the bugs

[AndalayBay]

So can we stop the IP ban on Colombo Sri Lanka then? Yup. The hub of Dawnguard spam. Posting websites where you could get beta keys or copies of the beta. Finally had to IP ban the whole area! These guys weren't listed in IPS' spam database yet. They also did the captcha and answered the challenge questions. Fine, we'll take care of you.

[Hana]

I don't know what bugs there are so wouldn't know if they got them.

[Thomas Kaira]

Looks like even Bethesda isn't immune to the Disappearing Statics bug. Rumor mill article, we'll see what happens. I'm not sure if Dawnguard has any reason to touch the Whiterun land meshes, so whether or not this is actually the case is still up in the air.

[Arthmoor]

If they placed an NPC there it touched the cell, which may well have been enough to throw things.Also, at least it alerts me to the possibility that a patch may need to be made for OCS depending on HOW they added that NPC. Which could be difficult to do if I can't afford to buy the DLC

[Hana]

Have not noticed any missing statics at all. Whiterun is perfectly fine. There are no new NPC's in there.

[Thomas Kaira]

Well, now that the NavMesh bug is finally fixed, I've gotten started on my first new village mod, which will be named "Castle Cross." The village itself will be built just outside the ruins of a small castle in the Whiterun Tundra, will include a manor house the player can eventually claim ownership of, and I intend to include a questline detailing why that castle was constructed and how it was torn down and abandoned (I think I'm going to try and tie in an Oblivion Gate for that).Alongside that, I'd like to try and include some Radiant Quests pertaining to the life of the village that pop up every so often ("A Giant made off with a farmer's prized cow! Kill the giant and bring the cow back!" or "A dragon is attacking, go Dovahkiin in his ass!"), as well as a nicely upgradable player home with many amenities and lots of space for storage and showing off your goodies.So far, the mod has taught me quite a lot about how to properly edit the NavMesh, and so far all my edits are clean and error-free. I'm just in Exterior Architecture mode right now, but I felt that to be my best starting point, if I'm going to familiarize myself with proper NavMeshing.

[Hana]

Wow, nice ... Arthmoor, have you seen hlvr trying to steal the name "All Natural" ? And yeah, when are you and ninja gonna get busy with it?

[Arthmoor]

I shall rise up and defend our honored name!Well, see, Wrinklyninja doesn't own a copy of Skyrim so it's pretty hard for him to do that

[Thomas Kaira]

O' Papyrus, why do you process the instruction of "Set this Global's value to its current value + 1" as "Set this Global's value to a random negative number?" :headbang:

[AndalayBay]

Now I'm starting to wonder if Papyrus is Microsoft SQL server reborn... According to MS SQL 6.0, ABS(-123) was a random positive number, as long as it wasn't 123. At least they got the positive part right...

[Thomas Kaira]

Okay, so now I have two people who are having severe issues with their saves who blamed one of my mods, and in both cases, I discover their Papyrus debug logs contain an ungodly amount of error messages.This community REALLY needs a tutorial on how to safely manage scripted mods.

[Arthmoor]

That would be a nice short tutorial:How to Safely Manage Scripted ModsDon't install any.---The system Bethesda chose to put in doesn't mesh with the idea of safe handling because of how clean saves don't work. My Papyrus logs have errors relating to your Economics mod all over the place but things still appear to be working fine. There's also a bit of a paranoid panic streak in some people who think that seeing a notice that a script is missing is causing problems. Just being missing isn't an issue. Being missing with an unhandled continuous update loop is.

[Arthmoor]

World's most obviously full of shit bug report:

Well, I tried LaL again, and it still broke the game - Helgen was missing a chunk of the wall when I approached, and when I reloaded and re-approached, the entire forest de-spawned leaving but nothing but bare snowy ground.It then also put dozens of objects into my inventory - objects that are supposed to be world objects only like Tanning Racks, Imperial Soldiers, and an iron ore vein (?!). When I dropped them my character then grew to be about 20ft tall - it was just a clusterchuck.

With only one known cause I can come up with. Pirated game.

[AndalayBay]

Let me guess: that was posted on SW.Edit: saw that it was on Beth. Yeah, tell him to do the verify integrity of game files thing on Steam. :tongue: Fortunately nobody else believes him.

[Arthmoor]

Happened across this: http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1394002-16-failed-to-fix-blood-on-the-ice-questline-on-pc/page__view__findpost__p__21171448The failure of Blood on the Ice can be easily pinned on Tova Shatter-Shield and the way Bethesda went about killing her if you completed the DB mission to kill Nilsine. Her alias in the quest is non-optional and not flagged to allow disabled or dead, yet there's a line of dialogue with a condition check to see if she's DEAD, but not DISABLED, and she was disabled, not properly killed.I tried marking her alias as optional, allow dead, allow disabled, and allow reserved. Shit still won't start, even though that has to be the reason my Argonian can't start the quest. Her involvement in the DB missions is what brought this on and I had finished those long before reaching the count threshold for this quest, and her body is long gone.Some further poking and Arivanya being dead will exacerbate this problem. She's the second victim in the case and didn't have the pre-essential protection of the others. I think she was killed eons ago in a dragon attack on the bridge and I thought nothing of it at the time. So that's now two aliased characters, both dead, both marked as non-optional, and neither one of them being brought back to life fixes a damn thing with the quest.

[AndalayBay]

I am so glad I got that quest over with before I even joined the DB. I'd poke Beth about that one. That's just plain stupid.

[Arthmoor]

I don't know what they'd be able to do about it at this point. At least for those of us unfortunate enough to have been bitten.I can fix the issue of the essential bit for Arivanya but Tova is still a wild card. I guess since my mage didn't do the DB stuff he got away with it. My orc is in the middle of the quest now, which I've just realizes is probably going to play hell with the transition to an open Windhelm. I should have gotten him out of the city beforehand, but hey.

[AndalayBay]

It'd be nice to fix it going forward at least. Can you pass this info along to Beth and see if they'll fix it? Might be worth it for them to know anyway - sounds like a bit of a disconnect in the development process.

[Thomas Kaira]

There's also a bit of a paranoid panic streak in some people who think that seeing a notice that a script is missing is causing problems. Just being missing isn't an issue. Being missing with an unhandled continuous update loop is.

Sorry, but that's wrong. In my experience, people who have huge amounts of that sort of garbage in their Papyrus logs end up experiencing problems like terrible script lag, CTDs on load, CTDs on save, and all sorts of other problems.Those errors are VERY harmful if enough of them show up to flood the VM. Very good reason to panic about this, especially since you need to consider "What will happen if someone decides to uninstall a DLC pack?" If this holds true, uninstalling a DLC pack will cause an ungodly amount of Papyrus errors, certainly enough to cause problems for people.Part of me actually wants that to happen, because if it does, we get leverage for Bethesda to rethink this piss-poor design decision.

[AndalayBay]

I had to turn off debugging because the log got so big my fps was plummeting. I also have problems reloading saves from inside cities. I have to go into an interior and save or well away from a city. I hate Skyrim. It is just so finicky. Uninstall a mod and you might as well start a new game.

[Arthmoor]

It'd be nice to fix it going forward at least. Can you pass this info along to Beth and see if they'll fix it? Might be worth it for them to know anyway - sounds like a bit of a disconnect in the development process.

I can try but I'm not holding out any hope they will.

Sorry' date=' but that's wrong. In my experience' date=' people who have huge amounts of that sort of garbage in their Papyrus logs end up experiencing problems like terrible script lag, CTDs on load, CTDs on save, and all sorts of other problems.[/quote'']I fail to see how it's wrong. So you get 500 messages telling you a script is gone. It's specifically telling you that those script objects won't load.Cloaking the problem with 500 empty scripts is not a solution.

Those errors are VERY harmful if enough of them show up to flood the VM.

Except they're not flooding anything. The log text explicitly says they're not loading.The only cause for panic here is when something that was quietly sitting around polling the system every chance it got was suddenly deprived of its script, and blissfully KEEPS polling the system every chance it gets. When your log gets to be 25,000 lines of old scripts trying to do this, then you have reason to complain, because they'll keep tripping errors and the game will gradually slow to a crawl and die.

Part of me actually wants that to happen, because if it does, we get leverage for Bethesda to rethink this piss-poor design decision.

If Dawnguardmaggedon is what it takes, then so be it. I can't wait for the people who uninstall it and start complaining that all the stuff it changed won't change back. and Bethesda is forced to acknowledge they've royally screwed up somewhere beyond just Papyrus.Bullshit like moving a vanilla rock 200 units over cause its in your way but then that rock won't go home when the mod is gone and becomes a floater you can't fix because the save has it. Or the opposite. Vanilla stuff that refuses to move when you make the edit. So you show up in game and facepalm yourself at seeing that fire effect didn't move with the brazier it belongs in and even forced disabling won't get rid of it.

I had to turn off debugging because the log got so big my fps was plummeting. I also have problems reloading saves from inside cities. I have to go into an interior and save or well away from a city. I hate Skyrim. It is just so finicky. Uninstall a mod and you might as well start a new game.

And the irony here? There were people who had exactly these kinds of problems in Oblivion but nobody could ever figure out why because most of us simply never saw it.Bethesda's mutation of Gamebryo is fatally flawed and has been since Morrowind. It needs to die and die horribly. Modding a game is of little value if the changes aren't entirely reversible or the underlying game has proven to be too unstable.