Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

[Dwip]

@Samson - I did forget about indoors. Truth. Not so much of a problem for the devs, though, which was my main point.@Dallen - Cheating? In a heavily modifiable single-player game? Allow me to disagree with the concept, and to note that if you don't feel like doing it, you don't have to. Whereas I should object to people dictating the minutiae of my gameplay to me. In some ways, given mods, fast travel is even preferrable to travel systems - in Oblivion, if you don't want fast travel, well, there's plenty of mods for that, or you just don't have to use it. In Morrowind, well, I hope you like silt striders, because it's gonna be that or walking forever, and if you maybe just wanted to get over to that dungeon and get the quest done because holy shit it's 3am and you want to sleep? Not happening for you.Ideally we'd get the option for both, but I imagine what we're actually going to get is fast travel.

[Dwip]

Occurs to me that you could do a sort of good enough for government work divine intervention spell that worked indoors by having a gamemode script that used some combo of getinworldspace and getpos to check for location in the exterior, and stopped if you were in an interior. Then you'd teleport based on last known exterior location.*shrug*

[Dallen68]

@Dwip:That wasn't the point I was making, and you know it. If you want to jump like an idiot for the next 10 hrs, be my guest. Just don't be bitching at Beth because it's "unrealistic", was all I was saying. I even said *in the same post* that I use fast travel. And yes, there's times when I just want to get to quest target, and get the bloody thing over with. Point being, don't abuse it then complain about your ability to abuse it. What constitutes abuse, is, of course all within the player's domain.

[prettyfly]

I'm now struck with the memory of the guy on Skyrim section Bethsoft forums who first complained that fast travel allowed him to get to quest destinations too quickly which didn't feel very realistic or fun, but then he found out that he could use the moveto command to teleport him straight to whatever baddy/loot item he needed to get to in order to complete a quest. He then complained in big bold letters that when he started doing this for everything the game stopped fun altogether. Now that is an actual cheat. And the poor darling, he couldn't help but use it and it ruined his game. It must be Beth's fault.

[Dallen68]

That was my point. Thanks prettyfly!

[Sigurð Stormhand]

Occurs to me that you could do a sort of good enough for government work divine intervention spell that worked indoors by having a gamemode script that used some combo of getinworldspace and getpos to check for location in the exterior' date=' and stopped if you were in an interior. Then you'd teleport based on last known exterior location.

*shrug*[/quote']Well, the child worlds you want to teleport from are all cities so surely if you are in "Bruma world" you're going to Bruma chapel, etc., etc. Then you just do a comparison in the "Tamriel" world of distances to divine markers and you're set. I would have thought the bigger problem was was the comparative between the respectice chapels while in the exterior worldspace.

[Dallen68]

Just do distance checks to the nearest city gate. Then place player at the appropriate temple. Should be good enough for government work. Or, for that matter, at the city gate.

[Arthmoor]

In order to do Divine Intervention while the player is indoors (I hadn't even though of that) you need miracles. The code has no means to return a parent worldspace while you're indoors. You'd need to have a script of some sort, like All Natural does, to check this when you ARE outdoors and record that as a variable. Which needs OBSE. There's no non-OBSE way to accomplish this.You're screwed no matter what though if the target for the spell is supposed to be indoors. It makes no difference then because there's no way to find the parent worldspace of a target interior cell. You're also double screwed if the worldspace you're in has no parent. I suppose in cases like this you could just punt and drop the player at the Temple of the One and tell people not to bitch if the gods send you there.

[AndalayBay]

How does Supreme Magicka work then? I didn't think SM required OBSE, but I could be wrong...Supreme Magicka has a spell called Extrication that takes you from inside a dungeon back to the entrance - outside. It's really handy for exiting large dungeons and I use it all the time. SM also has Mark and Recall, but the marker has to be outside. However you can recall from inside. It has Divine and Daedric Intervention too, but I've never used them.

[Arthmoor]

No idea, I don't use that mod and have never looked at any of the scripting. I'm not aware of any vanilla scripting options to find the exterior cell a dungeon is attached to.

[Dwip]

@Dallen - No, actually, I knew no such thing, and still can't get that out of your post, but ok, fair enough, though I'd argue for certain things like Acrobatics and Destruction, leaping about and flinging fireballs at random around the world is pretty much the only way to actually train those skills given the way Bethesda set them up, unless you go to actual trainers. Which is what it is.@Divine Intervention - Actually the Bruma, etc worldspace checks are the easy part. And I'd do my distance checks on the castle map markers, but your milage may vary there.And the bit with checking while you're outdoors is essentially what I just said, except I'm somewhat positive you can get there with vanilla scripting. For that matter, I feel like LAME goes where I want to go, but I've never bothered to check.

[Dwip]

In fact, LAME DOES have a DI spell, but changes it from a distance calc to a straight up choice of where you want to go. Which, eh.

[Arthmoor]

And I'll guarantee you they did that because casting DI indoors is useless if you want to go to "nearest church".

[Dallen68]

@ LAME DI: Works for me. Also, one that puts you in the temple of the one, or any of the cities is fine. Given the normal circumstances of using a DI spell (your getting your ass handed to you) I doubt very much I'd be worried about "which" city I landed in. If it was the entire world, I'd settle for a tribunal temple in Morrowind.@ Dwip-Which is why I said you "should" be able to practice your skills on the practice dummies and targets, up to a point. The acrobatics thing-well, they do have a mat in most of the fighters guilds. That being said, I've since realized that I was just plain wrong. IRL-people *do* practice their major skills 16 or more hours a day,5-7 days a week, so someone who's a musician might pracice *voice* while driving to the store,etc.

[Arthmoor]

Like I said, you have to have a default to fall back on. Temple of the One, Tribunal Hall, Red Mountain (ok, maybe not that), etc before the spell can be called foolproof without using OBSE to fix it.Yes, you should be able to practice skills by swinging at training dummies, but I also agree that it should stop by a certain point. Like, I dunno, 25 points or so? Enough to make you not a newbie. Self-teaching yourself combat skills only goes so far when you're not in a real fight or sparring with a real trainer. Damn, now I want to sneak that in as a feature for the next TIE update :POH - apparently Bethesda is offering "premium" maps for a pre-order bonus for Skyrim. I put premium in quotes because it's awfully hard to tell someone who grew up with cloth maps for Ultima games that "quality paper" meets the definition of premium.

[Dallen68]

Hey, the fact they're giving you a hard copy of the map is "premium" these days. Then, exactly how are they planning on delivering it, with everyone pre-ordering from steam?

[Arthmoor]

Well for one thing they haven't said anything about it being on Steam. For another, physical bonuses necessitate you get a box copy of the game.The laziness of my fellow gamers, and my fellow man in general, makes me really sad for the future of PC gaming.

[Dallen68]

But you always get a map with a box copy of an elderscrolls game. Let's really excite Arthmoor and include a free paperback edition of the manual, too! But wait...there's more...you also receive not 1 but 2 pre-pressed data DVD's with everything you need to install Skyrim to your very own PC! , any updates, patches, patches for the patches, dvd reader, and additional content sold seperatly, probably by someone else I just naturally assumed it was going to be on steam, because we're talking about pre-ordering, and that's where you pre-order things.

[Dwip]

All I can say about the premium map thing is that my copies of Ultima VII, Baldur's Gate II Collector's Edition, and Oblivion Collector's Edition are sitting over in the corner weeping loudly. I don't really have the heart to ask them to stop.Shit, at least with the Civ V pre-orders you got free DLC.

[Arthmoor]

Actually I don't think Bethesda ever bothered to say exactly where to preorder from. A bit silly of them I'd think. I still wouldn't expect them to send people paper maps as a bonus for a digital download though.

[Dallen68]

No, I'd expect a free DLC, maybe something that won't be on offer otherwise. Or maybe it's a digitial file map for you to print on your very own printer! (Also not included)

[Hana]

I don't know about you guys, but I think I opened and looked at the map that came with Oblivion once, and it's been tucked in the box ever since. Doesn't make me want to run out to GameStop and pre-order just yet.

[Sigurð Stormhand]

Like I said' date=' you have to have a default to fall back on. Temple of the One, Tribunal Hall, Red Mountain (ok, maybe not that), etc before the spell can be called foolproof without using OBSE to fix it.[/quote']You guys have been thinking about this as though it's a complicated problem because in Morrowind you had "Cult Sites", for lack of a better name, to warp to. In Oblivion you have dedicated chapels, the answer is obvious.Divine Intervention is a religious indulgence, should only be sold by chapels, and you should be calling on a particular deity for help, not putting one into the switch board for the next available God.So, "Divine Intervention of Diabella" would take you strait to the Anvil Chapel and nowhere else, you could only buy it (legally) at a Chapel of Diabella (there is only one) and you'd know what you were getting when you bought it.

[Arthmoor]

Good point, and that would work pretty well, and might even spark some interest in further fleshing out the deities.

[Dallen68]

You could even make it so you could only use a particular God's intervention after you visited there wayshrine.