Arthmoor Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 I would think it's a given we'll see at least FO3 levels of optimization. Maybe better since they won't be using Gamebryo anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hmm. Talk of the CK not coming out on launch day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prettyfly Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 There could be worse things, couldn't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Oblivion delayed the CS launch.Fallout 3 delayed the GECK launch, too.Bethesda simply wants us to experience the game they made first, THEN mod the hell out of it. I see nothing wrong with doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 I don't recall the Oblivion CS being delayed past launch day. It's been 5+ years though, so who knows. I didn't actually get into modding until much later.The delay on the FO3 GECK was devastating though. Nearly two months went by, and people lost patience and did a lot of early damage to the community by releasing hackish mods using extremely primitive measures. I'm not sure the FO3 side of things ever really recovered fully. Some of those broken mods are still floating around out there. The main problem though wasn't that it was delayed, it was that Bethesda was dead silent on the issue until GECK just showed up one day.They've already told us there will be a CK. So we know it's coming. I just don't like the idea that it could be some nebulous indeterminate stretch of time between launch and the CK becoming available. The same kind of impatience will be damaging to Skyrim modding as well. You have to know that there's going to be people itching to mod it on release day.Me, I can wait, I'll be more than happy to play through at a nice leisurely pace and soak up as much as I can. Even to the point of possibly plotting out places to put things, and making notes on how feasible cracking open the major cities will be. But play it I will, and I will complete one full run through before I touch mods. I certainly won't go near something that hasn't been done through the CK unless it's extremely simplistic in nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 But I wanted to start modding before I even played the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hana Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Me' date=' I can wait, I'll be more than happy to play through at a nice leisurely pace and soak up as much as I can. Even to the point of possibly plotting out places to put things, and making notes on how feasible cracking open the major cities will be. But play it I will, and I will complete one full run through before I touch mods. I certainly won't go near something that hasn't been done through the CK unless it's extremely simplistic in nature.[/quote']What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. I thought I would play through it once and I probably will, but I think I'll start modding it right off the bat too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Currently reading some topic complaining about fingers.Some people really take this whole "realism" idea way too seriously. :rolleyes:Else people are really starting to clutch at straws to try to find something new to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Fingers? This otta be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 And for those who don't care to dig up the thread, this is the gist of it:http://www.flickr.com/photos/65184893@N07/5934892907/in/photostream/lightbox/It is argued (obviously falsely) that the pose of the fingers in the casting pic is impossible. Clearly not so, as the person who took a pic of their own hand doing it shows. Plus, I can mimic it with ease myself. So yeah. Someone trolled the forum good on this one.There's assloads of uninformed opinions being thrown around about open cities again too. Todd settled this already, more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I can't see the issue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 On the topic of open cities, here is my layman explanation of why Oblivion technically could do it, but Skyrim definitely can't:Oblivion could because it wasn't actually all that demanding a game (only needed 128Mb of VRAM and 512Mb system RAM). Bethesda simply chose not to because the engine and 3D models were badly optimized and they had to scale it back a bunch to get the framerates under control on the consoles.Skyrim, on the other hand, is pushing the limits of what the 360 can do. Modern gaming PCs will be able to handle it no problem, but the consoles... uh-uh. Not enough bandwidth. The consoles simply cannot cope with the demands Skyrim would put on the memory if the cities were open. The 360 only has a measly 512Mb of RAM that it needs to share between the system and the GPU. Considering the complexity of the game's models and animations, as well as the desire to increase the number of NPCs and make the cities feel more crowded, the consoles would be completely flummoxed by the demands of open cities.Oblivion could get away with open cities largely because of how empty the cities were in the first place and the ultra-low-quality distant visuals. Skyrim's are going to be a lot more crowded and cluttered. (Evidence: merging of cuirass and greaves was done to make it easier to render larger numbers of NPCs. This means Bethesda wants to increase the population, specifically in the cities, where large crowds are common.) Add onto that the improved detail Distant LOD, full shadow-mapping, and the general quality increase we are going to see in the models, even attempting to open the cities on console would put a stranglehold on the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Todd himself already said as much. My beef isn't with the fact that the consoles can't handle it. My beef is with the uninformed nitwits who think that because a 360 can't hack it, the game would fold regardless of the platform it's played on, and then basing that ignorant conclusion on the fact that they didn't do open cities for Oblivion either. When it's perfectly clear to anyone who bothers to check for themselves that open cities aren't an issue for the PC at all.Todd even said that if it hadn't been for the memory restrictions on the 360 that they'd have done the cities open for Skyrim. Nobody seem to give a shit when the proof is offered, they'd prefer to just continue being dumbfucks without a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prettyfly Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 And now for an irrelevant but perhaps interesting fact; Giskard is paranoid that the issues that plagued the GECK (I've never used the thing so I'm not terribly clear on what its problems are, though he referred to the navmesh issue) won't be fixed in Skyrim, and is using the fact that they haven't explicitly stated that it is fixed as evidence that it won't be fixed.I know being well informed isn't his thing, but he's truly sunk to new depths considering he doesn't seem to know that this is a new engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 No, the Creation Kit will not have the same problems as the GECK at all.It will have totally new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 You've already covered it prettyfly, Giskard is clueless. I'm not sure what issues he's referring to with the GECK but since he's the only one who ever complains about how broken it is, take that for what it's worth. People in FO3 and F:NV have created some pretty elaborate stuff that I have to assume uses navmeshes without the kinds of issues he talks about. Of course, people on the Bethesda forums don't have irrational fears of using 3rd party tools to assist them either, namely FO3Edit/FNVEdit.And yeah, I suspect that when the CK comes along we'll find it has its own set of unique problems, just like the CS does. Hopefully we won't need to wait 5 years for a CKE to fix it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I took Psych in school, I sometimes amuse myself by trying to work out what exactly Giskard has, he's obviously mad - and he appears to have got worse over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Paranoid something or other with delusions of grandeur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Megalomania? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 A healthy dose of narcicism and a persecution complex, the latter possibly brought on by being from the Kingdom og Yorkshire. (English joke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Well yeah, those I can definitely see. But he does have an awfully big control-freak thing going too where he thinks brainwashing people about "trolls" is going to get them to stick with his way of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 We are so bad... and catty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 We are so bad... and catty! And nekkid! :whistle:EDIT: ARRRGH!!! Someone save me! I'm being consumed by the blob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurð Stormhand Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 We are so bad... and catty! Didn't you know? Bashing Giskard is the way to get in in the Oblivion modding scene. Ismerelda (sp) still ends all her posts with interesting ways to kill he who shall not be named. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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