maboleth Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 A blade in the dark quest, "Talk to Delphine" still unchecked, she keeps bothering me. And no dragons anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Pretty sure that's intentional since Beth shuts off random dragons during a couple of those early parts of the MQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maboleth Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 ^ Good to hear. It's time to finish that quest and get dragons again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cangqilai Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hi Arthmoor, I noticed you updated UOP on Nexus. Does the 3.5.2b mean BETA, or a SECOND version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsenellenelvian Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I found a couple that I am pretty sure fall in this list: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/57237/? and http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/18732/? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgar Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 In my game (with beta USKP 2.09) Lydia still uses the back door to enter Belethor's shop : http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/16301-follower-always-use-the-back-door-to-enter-belethors-shop/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Make sure you don't have something that edits navmeshes or doors to the shops. It's also not guaranteed to fix the issue, so if that doesn't work on a vanilla setup then there's something else that's not obvious about the problem and it may never get found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgar Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I don't think I have anything which edits navmeshes. Maybe it's not retroactive ? Does this fix work in your game, Arthmoor, BlackPete ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPete Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Does this fix work in your game, Arthmoor, BlackPete ? I just tested it out in the beta and the fix works fine in my game with Lydia as a follower. She entered through the front door rather than the back door. [screenshot] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taleden Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 While digging around in merchant NPCs today I noticed that the USKP makes a number of changes to the Dravynea actor (Skyrim.esm, 0x01365F) which are then reverted by the Dragonborn DLC. Back when the unofficial patches were ESPs this wasn't an issue, since the USKP loaded later, but now that it's an ESM that comes before Dragonborn, it looks to me like those edits will need to be copied into the UDBP. It looks like there was a similar issue with Hert (0x01367C) and Dawnguard, but those edits have already been copied into the UDGP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgar Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I just tested it out in the beta and the fix works fine in my game with Lydia as a follower. She entered through the front door rather than the back door. [screenshot] Thank you ! Well, my Lydia is very stubborn, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crashpilot Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I have currently 2 MOD added followers and both enter through the back door (USKP 2.08a) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Just checked it with the female DB initiate on an old save. Worked fine. She followed me in through the front door as expected. Doesn't work with Open Cities installed though so I guess I have some prodding to do there again. Vanilla is fine though. So if it's not working you almost certainly have a mod that's altered the navmesh and doesn't have the preferred door markers set. As an aside, if you enter the city and Belethor is outdoors, follow him when he goes home. If it's going to work, he'll use his own front door. If it's not, he'll use his own BACK door. I fast traveled in with a different character and saw that work with vanilla but fail with OCS installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumps-Down-Stairs Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 While digging around in merchant NPCs today I noticed that the USKP makes a number of changes to the Dravynea actor (Skyrim.esm, 0x01365F) which are then reverted by the Dragonborn DLC. Back when the unofficial patches were ESPs this wasn't an issue, since the USKP loaded later, but now that it's an ESM that comes before Dragonborn, it looks to me like those edits will need to be copied into the UDBP. It looks like there was a similar issue with Hert (0x01367C) and Dawnguard, but those edits have already been copied into the UDGP. The team might not have noticed if they're developing on top of cleaned masters. I don't think edits to NPCs such as Hert were intentionally forwarded to the UDGP for their own sake, but were lucky side-effects of needing to fix the vampire faces/eyes in Dawnguard. That raises a good policy question though: should the unofficial patches assume that Bethesda's masters have been cleaned, or should fixes in the USKP be forwarded specifically to counteract itms in the DLC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 I checked last night. That NPC's data is in the UDBP already. No, we do patch development on top of the dirty masters just for situations like this. Cleaning the master will solve it, but we guard against that anyway for those people who are rabidly against doing such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taleden Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I checked last night. That NPC's data is in the UDBP already. No, we do patch development on top of the dirty masters just for situations like this. Cleaning the master will solve it, but we guard against that anyway for those people who are rabidly against doing such things. Has that version of UDBP not been released yet? I have 2.0.8 and TES5Edit only shows overrides for Dravynea in USKP and Dragonborn, but not UDBP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Hmm. Could be. Maybe it was part of the general conflict resolution I did 2 weeks ago. In which case, assuming nobody finds a deal breaker before then, the 209 betas should go live tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Version 209 is live, enjoy! cangqilai 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maboleth Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thanks! I waited for this package of fixes to start my new character from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt3rn1ty Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Anyone else got problems purchasing Breezehome ? I just did the main quest help Iryleth kill the first dragon, came back to Jarl Balgruuf, well done now go see the weirdy beardies .. Afore I go, talked to Proventus, he has the house for sale, select it and you get the message you have bought it - However the topic does not vanish from the dialogue options, its still there though greyed out as recognised that I have chosen that conversation before. Go to Breezehome, and apparently I still need the key. At this stage of the game I always grab Breezehome Difference from previous times with my setup, I installed SKSE 1.7.1 stable for the first time today ( Arthmoor wanted me to try something that does not work correctly ( see comments here http://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/tracdown/issue/18511-navmesh-problems-for-chief-yamarz-largashbur/ ) ) Since then I have taken out Extended UI from my setup, and decided to have ShadeMe's Smart Souls taking advantage of my setup now being dependant upon SKSE scripts ( I dont want SkyUI so opted for something else ) Thats it - And of course USKP 2.0.9 Edit : Just tried going back to a save before I installed SKSE and any plugins / scripts, with all of those removed, did the MQ again going to see Balgruuf, help Irileth beat Murmernomnom, back to Balgruuf etc etc, had a chat with Lydia, then walked back to Proventus. The Dialogue is there to buy, but he does not give up the key even though you get the message to go visit your new home. Edit2 : I have now gone from a complete game restart again ( last one was soon after the 2.0.9 beta was uploaded, this one is with 2.0.9 release ), and still have the same problem. Has there been any changes to Proventus Avenicci scripting or merchant / faction scripting that could have upset this ?. I have no other mods which affect him, nor any scripts loose, nor have I reinstalled skse and the plugins I was messing with yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt3rn1ty Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Forgot one trick - Papyrus log : [02/09/2015 - 04:40:47PM] Papyrus log opened (PC) [02/09/2015 - 04:40:47PM] Update budget: 1.200000ms (Extra tasklet budget: 1.200000ms, Load screen budget: 500.000000ms) [02/09/2015 - 04:40:47PM] Memory page: 128 (min) 512 (max) 76800 (max total) [02/09/2015 - 04:40:59PM] error: Property Follower1 on script InigoPlayerMonitor attached to alias PlayerMonitor on quest InigoFollowerControl (1D050584) cannot be bound because alias Follower1 on quest InigoFollowerControl (1D050584) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:40:59PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor250_000A2C86 attached to Favor250 (000A2C86) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:40:59PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor258_000A34DE attached to Favor258 (000A34DE) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:00PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor253_000A2C9E attached to Favor253 (000A2C9E) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:00PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor256_000A34D4 attached to Favor256 (000A34D4) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:00PM] error: Property HouseQuest on script uskpretroactive132script attached to USKPRetroactive132 (0202C3E7) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:00PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor254_000A2CA6 attached to Favor254 (000A2CA6) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:00PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor255_000A34CE attached to Favor255 (000A34CE) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:00PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor257_000A34D7 attached to Favor257 (000A34D7) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:00PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_FavorJarlsMakeFriends_00087E24 attached to FavorJarlsMakeFriends (00087E24) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:00PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor252_000A2C9B attached to Favor252 (000A2C9B) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:03PM] VM is freezing... [02/09/2015 - 04:41:03PM] VM is frozen [02/09/2015 - 04:41:03PM] Reverting game... [02/09/2015 - 04:41:04PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor254_000A2CA6 attached to Favor254 (000A2CA6) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:04PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor255_000A34CE attached to Favor255 (000A34CE) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:04PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor250_000A2C86 attached to Favor250 (000A2C86) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:04PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor253_000A2C9E attached to Favor253 (000A2C9E) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:04PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor256_000A34D4 attached to Favor256 (000A34D4) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:04PM] error: Property HouseQuest on script uskpretroactive132script attached to USKPRetroactive132 (0202C3E7) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:04PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor252_000A2C9B attached to Favor252 (000A2C9B) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:04PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor257_000A34D7 attached to Favor257 (000A34D7) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:04PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor258_000A34DE attached to Favor258 (000A34DE) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:04PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_FavorJarlsMakeFriends_00087E24 attached to FavorJarlsMakeFriends (00087E24) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:41:10PM] Loading game... [02/09/2015 - 04:41:11PM] VM is thawing... [02/09/2015 - 04:41:11PM] InigofollowerDialogue::PlayerLoadGame() [02/09/2015 - 04:41:11PM] error: Cannot call IsWeaponDrawn() on a None object, aborting function call stack: [alias PlayerMonitor on quest InigoFollowerControl (1D050584)].InigoPlayerMonitor.OnUpdate() - "InigoPlayerMonitor.psc" Line ? [02/09/2015 - 04:41:11PM] warning: Assigning None to a non-object variable named "::temp10" stack: [alias PlayerMonitor on quest InigoFollowerControl (1D050584)].InigoPlayerMonitor.OnUpdate() - "InigoPlayerMonitor.psc" Line ? [02/09/2015 - 04:41:23PM] VM is freezing... [02/09/2015 - 04:41:23PM] VM is frozen [02/09/2015 - 04:41:23PM] Saving game... [02/09/2015 - 04:41:24PM] VM is thawing... [02/09/2015 - 04:42:30PM] error: Cannot add None to a container stack: [ (00000014)].Actor.AddItem() - "<native>" Line ? [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].housepurchasescript.PurchaseHouse() - "HousePurchaseScript.psc" Line 22 [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 160 [02/09/2015 - 04:42:30PM] error: Cannot add None to a container stack: [ (00000014)].Actor.AddItem() - "<native>" Line ? [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].housepurchasescript.PurchaseHouse() - "HousePurchaseScript.psc" Line 24 [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 160 [02/09/2015 - 04:42:30PM] error: Cannot call SetFactionOwner() on a None object, aborting function call stack: [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].housepurchasescript.PurchaseHouse() - "HousePurchaseScript.psc" Line 26 [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 160 [02/09/2015 - 04:42:30PM] error: Cannot call GetStageDone() on a None object, aborting function call stack: [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 164 [02/09/2015 - 04:42:30PM] warning: Assigning None to a non-object variable named "::temp25" stack: [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 164 [02/09/2015 - 04:42:30PM] error: Cannot call UpdateHouseStatus() on a None object, aborting function call stack: [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 169 [02/09/2015 - 04:42:30PM] Info: *Achievement 31 awarded - a winnar is you!* [02/09/2015 - 04:43:49PM] VM is freezing... [02/09/2015 - 04:43:49PM] VM is frozen [02/09/2015 - 04:43:50PM] Reverting game... [02/09/2015 - 04:43:52PM] Loading game... [02/09/2015 - 04:43:52PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor254_000A2CA6 attached to Favor254 (000A2CA6) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:43:52PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor255_000A34CE attached to Favor255 (000A34CE) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:43:52PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor250_000A2C86 attached to Favor250 (000A2C86) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:43:52PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor253_000A2C9E attached to Favor253 (000A2C9E) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:43:52PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor256_000A34D4 attached to Favor256 (000A34D4) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:43:52PM] error: Property HouseQuest on script uskpretroactive132script attached to USKPRetroactive132 (0202C3E7) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:43:52PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor252_000A2C9B attached to Favor252 (000A2C9B) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:43:53PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor257_000A34D7 attached to Favor257 (000A34D7) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:43:53PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_Favor258_000A34DE attached to Favor258 (000A34DE) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:43:53PM] error: Property HousePurchase on script QF_FavorJarlsMakeFriends_00087E24 attached to FavorJarlsMakeFriends (00087E24) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type [02/09/2015 - 04:43:53PM] VM is thawing... [02/09/2015 - 04:43:54PM] InigofollowerDialogue::PlayerLoadGame() [02/09/2015 - 04:43:54PM] error: Cannot call IsWeaponDrawn() on a None object, aborting function call stack: [alias PlayerMonitor on quest InigoFollowerControl (1D050584)].InigoPlayerMonitor.OnUpdate() - "InigoPlayerMonitor.psc" Line ? [02/09/2015 - 04:43:54PM] warning: Assigning None to a non-object variable named "::temp10" stack: [alias PlayerMonitor on quest InigoFollowerControl (1D050584)].InigoPlayerMonitor.OnUpdate() - "InigoPlayerMonitor.psc" Line ? [02/09/2015 - 04:44:10PM] VM is freezing... [02/09/2015 - 04:44:10PM] VM is frozen [02/09/2015 - 04:44:11PM] Saving game... [02/09/2015 - 04:44:11PM] VM is thawing... [02/09/2015 - 04:46:37PM] VM is freezing... [02/09/2015 - 04:46:37PM] VM is frozen [02/09/2015 - 04:46:37PM] Saving game... [02/09/2015 - 04:46:38PM] VM is thawing... [02/09/2015 - 04:46:52PM] error: Cannot call HPWhiterun() on a None object, aborting function call stack: [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 160 [02/09/2015 - 04:46:52PM] error: Cannot call PurchaseHouse() on a None object, aborting function call stack: [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 160 [02/09/2015 - 04:46:52PM] error: Cannot call WhiterunHouseVar() on a None object, aborting function call stack: [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 161 [02/09/2015 - 04:46:52PM] error: Cannot call GetStageDone() on a None object, aborting function call stack: [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 164 [02/09/2015 - 04:46:52PM] warning: Assigning None to a non-object variable named "::temp25" stack: [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 164 [02/09/2015 - 04:46:52PM] error: Cannot call UpdateHouseStatus() on a None object, aborting function call stack: [HousePurchase (000A7B33)].QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.Fragment_0() - "QF_HousePurchase_000A7B33.psc" Line 169 [02/09/2015 - 04:46:52PM] Info: *Achievement 31 awarded - a winnar is you!* [02/09/2015 - 04:48:10PM] VM is freezing... [02/09/2015 - 04:48:10PM] VM is frozen Looks like a script is playing up when purchasing, theres a USKP Retrospective script fail in there too error: Property HouseQuest on script uskpretroactive132script attached to USKPRetroactive132 (0202C3E7) cannot be bound because HousePurchase (000A7B33) is not the right type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Considering that log is full of errors that don't happen in a vanilla + USKP game I'm left to wonder if something else you installed has tried to alter the house purchase quest scripts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt3rn1ty Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Active Mod Files: 00 Skyrim.esm 01 Update.esm 02 Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp [Version 2.0.9] 03 Dawnguard.esm 04 Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp [Version 2.0.9] 05 HearthFires.esm 06 Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp [Version 2.0.9] 07 Dragonborn.esm 08 Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp [Version 2.0.9] 09 Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm 0A Cutting Room Floor.esp [Version 1.1.2] 0B VanillaReducedTextures.esp 0C AOS.esp [Version 2.2DGDB] 0D Combat Evolved.esp 0E Animal Tweaks.esp 0F Backup Movement Speed Reduction.esp 10 RelightingSkyrim-NoScripts.esp 11 RelightingSkyrim_DLCs.esp 12 ELE_Legendary_Lite.esp 13 RealisticWaterTwo.esp 14 AOS2_RealisticWaterTwo Patch.esp [Version 2.1] 15 ShezriesOldHroldan.esp 16 Bring Out Your Dead.esp [Version 2.0.1] 17 ColorfulLightsNoShadows.esp 18 ColorfulLightsNoShadows - Merged DLCs.esp 19 RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp 1A Run For Your Lives.esp [Version 2.0.3] 1B Point The Way.esp [Version 1.0.4] 1C Remove Interior Fog V2 - Full Version.esp 1D Inigo.esp 1E sandboxcylinderheight.esp 1F The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp [Version 1.2.8] 20 When Vampires Attack.esp [Version 2.0.3] 21 Smashed Patch.esp 22 ELEWL.esp Inigo throws up one of the errors, its a known issue that SmartBlueCat has fixed for the next version .. The rest, I really have no idea, nothing I can determine anyway. ELEWL is new to my load order, beta from --JawZ-- changes weather lighting, no scripts. The only other thing new in the last game restart is unofficial patches oh and Mator smashed patch, but the problem is the same with a bashed patch ( tried it ) No loose scripts : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maboleth Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 In my new game if I interrupt the shopkeepers while they are talking (e.g. drunken huntsman) and exit, they will come with me outside, saying something like "yes", "speak" etc. Is that normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathbydestiny Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 If you're are in the middle of talking to an npc when you move through cell and such, they will follow you. Always been that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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