Giskard and False Accusations

[Sigurð Stormhand]

It's a truism that we see our own virtues and flaws in those around us - so Giskard seeing deceitful backstabbers everywhere fuels his own self-deceit and backstabbing, which he believes he does to protect himself. If he just realised he was wrong about other people he would get on better with them; but instead he is trapped in a psychological hell of his own making which is quite litterally leading him on a decending spiral into paranoid madness.

[Conner]

If it wasn't so sad, this Giskard character would be pretty funny. I think Sigurd sounds like he's got him fairly well pegged, unless, as Fury suggested about Locke, he's role playing it and none of this is real to him.. in which case, much like Locke, it's a little overdone... Oh, and Vorians, you've got more to be grateful for by not knowing who he is... ;) But if you really want to know more, Samson's got some links floating around with more details, but the gist is that he took an existing codebase and modified it enough that he felt he no longer needed to call it a derivative or follow the original licensing which got the community riled; then he started claiming every other codebase needed his license because they all contain a snippet that he and his dead partner wrote, of course not every other codebase does so even more uproar; then he started making even stranger claims - he created youtube, he contributed to every known company in the world, etc.. guess what came of that? :lol: ..anyway, every year he resurfaced for a month or so to rant and rave and argue with everyone until he gets banned at half the community sites then he vanishes for another 10-11 months, long enough for some of those bans to be forgotten/lifted and using new aliases at the sites where the bans are already permanent. Half the community is convinced it's that the asylum gives him time off for good behavior each year or that his prescriptions all have to be annually renewed or something. ;)

[Dallen68]

Persanally, I think this shit started as an "honest disagreement". That being said, I think part of it is Giskard's copy of bash does not function (mine doesn't) [I was supposed to open bash for this one mod I want to try, then click on this tab, and click some button or the other, but all that happens is a DOS window opens]. Later, it wasn't "that" Elminster cleaned and fixed the mod, it was that the title of Elminster's edited mod included the "words" "cleand and fixed". That's like totally embarrassing.

[Conner]

I had the impression it all started because Giskard thought that tools like TES4Edit & Bash are the devil incarnate...

[Arthmoor]

It did, but the catalyst for his 30+ month long rant was when Elminster released the proof that his mods were filthy messes of dirty edits.

[Sigurð Stormhand]

His mods are a bit shit anyway, the way the new Star Wars films are a bit shit. They're perfect examples of very good ideas and frameworks with terrible implementation, details, and complete refusal to take editorial criticism. I mean, honestly, he put in a load of Valenwood elves with long green hair, and Necromancers have to be in [i]everything[/i], to the extent that he gave them an Imperial-sanctioned Guild in his latest run of OMG.

[Sigurð Stormhand]

Oops, last posted by me again. :redface:

[Conner]

Oh, I see. I suppose that makes what Dallen said make more sense then, Samson. Ouch, Sigurd, no one had been saying his mods were bad before this, let alone [i]that[/i] bad. :lol: Well, I'll admit that green hair sounds strange for elves to me, but these are his mods so that's his call, I suppose.. Necromancers, well, maybe he just really likes them [i]that[/i] much? :shrug: Oh, and Sigurd, you stop having to worry about that when you have an actual account here and just stay logged in. ;)

[Dallen68]

Sigurd-His users seem to like that sort of thing. The Necromancer thing in OMG is supposed to help 'tie it in' to a couple of his other mods. Overall, the mods themselves aren't bad-he just takes things a bit to personally. Apparently, his dislike of tes4edit is the person that made it. Then, he doesn't use OBSE, so who knows?

[Arthmoor]

For someone who likes to crow about lore, I sure don't remember anything about Elves with green hair being in there. Nor do I remember Traven saying "oh, necromancers are cool" so I don't see how he could fit that in without the entire Mages Guild becoming a farce and wrecking the entire quest line for that. If he made them as a separate joinable faction that's another thing, but why not just make a necro faction mod instead of attaching it to a mage guild mod? Using or not using OBSE isn't something I'd call him out on, since I don't use it unless I need to, outside of Cyrodiil Travel Services I don't.

[Dallen68]

It doesn't start untlil after your arch-mage. The story line is Traven's ban was illegal, the new emporer steps in, and your faction is set up as a law enforcement agency which is seperated from the education dept. Your job is to be sure all legal forms of magic can be practiced. I didn't mean to imply using or not using OBSE is good or bad. I guess you could say that about any tool...

[AnImpatientFan]

To get the Necromancer stuff. You need to: 1. Finish all the stuff in The Elder Council 2. Become The Arch Mage and 3. Want to allow Necromancy. It sorta makes sense.

[Dallen68]

The idea that the Mages' Guild would actively encourage necromancy is highly suspect, the idea that the Imperial Administration would sanction it is bordering on absurd. Necromancy is clearly in violation of the Imperial cult religion, as it violates the realm of Arkey, God of Life and Death. Remember the book in Morrowind, "Arkey the Enemy"? It's not as though Traven's ban is issued in a Lore-vacumn, it's the logical extension of the Imperial religion; if anything the Imperial Synod (from the Infernal City) would come down heavier on Necromancers because it is a part of Imperial administration. I read the book, and I see nothing like seperate guilds in the Fourth era, quite the opposite. It seems Titus Meade has decided to unify magical teaching under the College of Wispers. (Lore Rant over) The point is, it's clearly an idea (I suppose a good one) that Giskard had and has recieved no revision, because he doesn't listen to anyone else. It would make more sense if the Guild went a bit "rogue" with no Emperor and that was why Titus dissolved it; in fact that would be a clever explanation of the situation in the book. So when I said his mods were "a bit shit" what I really meant was, "bits of them are a bit shit". Also, I believe he but mines [i]inside[/i] the walls of Chorrol, which makes no sense because A: you shouldn't do that sort of thing really and B: I thought the point was all (most) of the Cyrorylic mines were tapped out. Mind you, I admit to being picking, I'm a Medievalist and something of an archaeologist by proffession (passion since childhood, not a profession) so I'm a little over-sensetive to these things, I admit. I also had a little rant about how just rebuilding Kvatch castle made no sense because the internal structure was wrecked and you'd have to pull the whole thing down, and anyway the political situation in the region mitigated against creating a new Coun at that time. :lol:

[Dallen68]

Ok, who stoled my name?

[Dallen68]

Ok, Sigurd. You have to post under your own name :p

[Dallen68]

[quote name=myself,apparently]I also had a little rant about how just rebuilding Kvatch castle made no sense because the internal structure was wrecked and you'd have to pull the whole thing down, and anyway the political situation in the region mitigated against creating a new Coun at that time.[/quote] I completely disagree. Rebuilding Kvatch makes perfect sense, and should have been part of vanilla oblivion. The political situation [i]impelled[/i] the creation of a new count [i] as quickly as possible[/i] , so much so, no search for a surviving Goldwine was conducted.

[Arthmoor]

I tend to agree with Dallen. The Imperials barely tolerated necromancy in Cyrodiil. Yes, it was legal, but almost nobody actually wanted it that way if you pay even the slightest amount of attention. And while the guild may not have done much about it before Traven, the progression of events clearly leads to it eventually being put to a stop and it had to happen somewhere. I'd rather see it played out in the game than glossed over in some non-canon source. So by having OMG fully embrace neceomancy the way you're saying it does makes no sense at all. Unless as suggested it's supposed to be the catalyst for why it got consolidated in the book (which I haven't read). I doubt very much Giskard had that information handy when he built the mod. It sounds like it would even be a stretch for him to say it's based on early 4th era lore. As far as rebuilding Kvatch, I agree that should have been part of the game. Though from what I gather, Giskard simply snaps his fingers one day and it's done. I rather prefer the way Kvatch Rebuilt handled it by first clearing out the burned rubble and then slowly building up to a completed city after the quest is done.

[Dallen68]

Actually, he had information from "the infernal city", provided by someone he trusts*. And both KA (the latest version anyway) and KRIS take time. In Giskard's fantasy-the original guild is dissolved by the Emporer, your avatar gets threatend with being arrested by Imperial Mandate, you report to the Emporer. Then, the "mages guild" per se is declared illegal because of Traven's bullshit; then you get appointed arch-mage of the imperial synod (a law enforcement agency), under which is 1.the college of whispers (remnants of mages guild) 2. College of Conjurers (wtf?) 3. College of Necromancers Supposedly, the already existin necromaner guild from "the necromancer" then join the college of necromaners, but I haven't played that-so I don't know..

[Arthmoor]

I don't see how he could have had access to the necessary information from Infernal City 2 years before the book's release. Given how secretive Bethesda is, he'd either have to be working for them already (doubtful) or have access to Keyes in some way (also doubtful). For him to actually try and claim he had insider info is absurd, barring these two scenarios. Such information would have been scattered widely across the internet. As far as the other point, about keeping mines inside the city walls, that's neither here nor there. It's much easier to protect one inside the city, but that also leaves a huge security breach in place if someone digs through underground and then pours out of the mine. Then again, Oblivion's "cities" barely qualify as such and I'm convinced that Bethesda only gave them walls to hide their method of dealing with FPS issues on the XBox.

[Dallen68]

[quote=samson] The Imperials barely tolerated necromancy in Cyrodiil. Yes, it was legal, but almost nobody actually wanted it that way if you pay even the slightest amount of attention[/quote] And that's why you have necromancers in both Transports of Cyrodiil, and your dark brotherhood mod.(don't remember off hand what it's called) Both are awesome BTW. Only, in transports, if you have one of the umpteen "you have to eat and sleep mods" your avatar doesn't get hungry/sleepy when he's supposed to if he goes for a ride.

[Dallen68]

[quote name=samson]I don't see how he could have had access to the necessary information from Infernal City 2 years before the book's release. Given how secretive Bethesda is, he'd either have to be working for them already (doubtful) or have access to Keyes in some way (also doubtful). For him to actually try and claim he had insider info is absurd, barring these two scenarios. Such information would have been scattered widely across the internet. [/quote] Apparently, most of the text is on a site called "the imperial library" (which he is a fan of). Then, he admits some of it it 'extrapolation'

[Arthmoor]

Yes, and if you've ever talked to the necromancer in CTS, she gets pretty annoyed by the suggested intolerance of the question. She simply doesn't care what the locals think of her, but they can't arrest her for it either. The one in A Brotherhood Renewed isn't exactly out in the open about it if you've read her journal.... [spoiler]and the chapel wants her dead.[/spoiler] The Brotherhood is also treated as a criminal organization, and they welcome vampires in their ranks too. As far as hunger/thirst, if they're not keeping track of time, that's not something I can fix. CTS advances the clock, so if such a mod is constructed logically, it should be time dependent. If it's been 3 hours since your last meal, and you should be eating one in another 4, then take a 5 hour trip, you should get hungry. If you're not, that's something that really needs to be handled properly in the realism mod. BTW - when doing a quote, leave out the "name" part. It should just be "quote=". Also, the Imperial Library doesn't have inside sources good enough to trump the book's release either. They're just being awfully liberal with excerpts from it.

[Dallen68]

True. Thanks for the tip.

[Sigurð Stormhand]

Sorry Dallen, I was at work and not paying attention, this: [quote]The idea that the Mages' Guild would actively encourage necromancy is highly suspect, the idea that the Imperial Administration would sanction it is bordering on absurd. Necromancy is clearly in violation of the Imperial cult religion, as it violates the realm of Arkey, God of Life and Death. Remember the book in Morrowind, "Arkey the Enemy"? It's not as though Traven's ban is issued in a Lore-vacumn, it's the logical extension of the Imperial religion; if anything the Imperial Synod (from the Infernal City) would come down heavier on Necromancers because it is a part of Imperial administration. I read the book, and I see nothing like seperate guilds in the Fourth era, quite the opposite. It seems Titus Meade has decided to unify magical teaching under the College of Wispers. (Lore Rant over) The point is, it's clearly an idea (I suppose a good one) that Giskard had and has recieved no revision, because he doesn't listen to anyone else. It would make more sense if the Guild went a bit "rogue" with no Emperor and that was why Titus dissolved it; in fact that would be a clever explanation of the situation in the book. So when I said his mods were "a bit shit" what I really meant was, "bits of them are a bit shit". Also, I believe he but mines inside the walls of Chorrol, which makes no sense because A: you shouldn't do that sort of thing really and B: I thought the point was all (most) of the Cyrorylic mines were tapped out. Mind you, I admit to being picking, I'm a Medievalist and something of an archaeologist by proffession (passion since childhood, not a profession) so I'm a little over-sensetive to these things, I admit. I also had a little rant about how just rebuilding Kvatch castle made no sense because the internal structure was wrecked and you'd have to pull the whole thing down, and anyway the political situation in the region mitigated against creating a new Coun at that time.[/quote] was indeed me. My point about Kvatch was that: A: The [i]castle[/i] is toast, structurally speaking. You'd need to knock it down and rebuild. B: The releasing of funds to rebuild is unlikely to happening any time soon without an Emperor, I seriosuly doubt the Chancellor would be legally able to do it. C: It's hard to see the uefulness of the city itself, it looks like a relic from a time when Cyrodil was ruled from hill-top strongholds, but in "current" times its position doesn't look all that critical. So I would have closed up the castle and moved a legion detachment into the city after clearing it of the worst rubble. *shrug* I'm not wedded to the opinion, but I think that any rebuilding would need to explicitely include a gutting od the castle keep at the very least.

[Dallen68]

Sigurd, Your supposed to pretend the existing castle "was" torn down, and rebuilt. :thinking: The funds for the rebuild come from 'your avatar', (in KA or from the new emporer (in Kris). It doesn't 'matter' about the usefulness of the city. It's so far "out of the way" it doesn't make sence for M.Dagon to attack it in the first place: it's an isolated little city.