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Giskard and False Accusations


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I see. As I said, I really haven't given his mods very much attention because of the hostility toward Samson from him so I haven't had the displeasure of seeing his bugs & conflicts first hand. Hmm, so he's using the right tools for the job, but not the newest and best tools for the job.. perhaps, to extend my carpentry example, it's like using a chisel and mallet with a vise when he should be using a lathe and appropriate chiseling tools for that lathe? Or perhaps he's using a chisel and mallet when he should be using a router? (Sorry, I'm not a carpenter, but lately my wife and I have been working on a series of projects here at the ranch that involve routing even though I don't own a router and can't afford to buy one. So we've had to use a dremel and a cordless drill with mostly sanding bits instead because those are the closest tools that will more or less do the job that we do have. Of course, I've done plenty of wood working in the past and wouldn't hesitate to use better tools if they were available to me, but I'm no carpenter by any stretch.)
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My bad, I forgot one modder and that's DEG.  He contiues coming back and post another video of his Modding Showcase video series or post another modding competition.

Yes, it is and another yes you should definitely replay Morrowind.

Yes, I should too.  The last time I played was way back in 2009.  I'd be interested to see how Tamriel Rebuilt has progressed since then.  

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He's using a chisel that has a chip in it and a mallet with a loose handle and then complaining when his finished product comes out with flaws, when he could instead be using a lathe-assisted titanium chisel and a nice solid mallet.
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I think [url=http://www.theengineeringguild.co.uk/blog/638-no-more-links-please]this post[/url] speaks million (I quote it because he just made another post disappear and we wouldn't want to loose such valuable input): [quote]Thank you to all of you that have kept me informed of the goings on at BC HQ since we found out Arthmoor was one of those behind the uploading and editing of my mods without my permission last year. Given how they keep turning up at the center of trouble or keep getting caught sneaking around ripping off modders or showing no respect for the rights of others. I think we have established by now they are a lowly group of trolls. There is no point acting surprised when a rip off troll acts like a rip off troll. It should not surprise any of us, after all that is what they do. The days when they manipulated hundreds of users to do their bidding are over, today its 3 cowards against the one guy that stood up to an entire community and has been vincidated and proven right. So they stand no chance really. Especially given how stubborn I am when wronged by bullies. One day they will learn respect and apologuise for what they did these past 2 years, until that day comes, they have the worse enemy they could have made online. Me, one seriously pissed off modder. And I am dealing with them through my mods, I know their weak points, what they like to do and do not like to do. I know what their tools cannot see and what they do see and I have been playing with them using that knowledge for weeks now. You players may not see or hear about the shots fired as you download my new released to use the cool new things I have made. But believe me, shots are being fired. In fact I took several good shots at them yesterday. You should start hearing about problems at BC any day now :)[/quote] So to that I will say that we didn't receive any report of problems from the people who downloaded the latest patches we uploaded for his mods. And did you notice that he knows our tools? That is so funny. It doesn't even begin to understand what they do and how they work. (Well I don't so much either understand how they work but) I know what they do and what you can do with them to detect compatibility issues with other mods and fix the mistakes in a mod. Vorians would tell you what he did on the last version of CUO Chorrol to upset his previous patch. He deleted and replace nearly everything and move them slightly... [quote]and if these actions aren't just to break the patches, then he also doesn't know that you only need to delete and replace persistent objects when moving, not everything[/quote] is just an example of the considerations we're having, not being sure if he is completely dumb or just completely misguided.
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@The_Fury: Yup, and, what's more, he's added it to Sandbox itself, not just this site, and on the QSFP side he's changed the front page news from listing all the old articles are links at the bottom of the front page to a drop down box at the bottom of the front page. :grinning: @Ismelda: Invaluable input, indeed.. sounds like he's now trying to claim his mod issues are intentional just to try to mess with BC. I agree that it's pretty amazing that he's been intentionally messing with you, based on his extensive knowledge of tools he steadfastly claims are purely the devil and won't do any of the nifty things y'all claim they do and that y'all utilize them daily for doing, but it's y'all who are entirely to blame and who are misguided, etc.. :rolleyes: :facepalm: @Vorians: Sorry about that, perhaps in the attempt at clarification we got mildly carried away... :lol:
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It appeared to me, as I was updating the Better Cities: CUO Chorrol patch yesterday (originally designed for CUO Chorrol v1.61) to work with CUO Chorrol v1.7, which had been released that morning, that Giskard had intentionally attempted to break the patch. The [i]only[/i] edits made in the Chorrol city worldspace (and thus the only location where a conflict occurs and needs patching) were duplicating objects he'd placed, moving them a tiny amount (a few points on the x/y/z coordinates), and deleting the original objects (about fifteen objects in total). None of these objects were persistent, so there was no need to dupe & delete to reposition them (since only persistent objects have their location stored permanently in an existing game-save), and yet every single object was referenced by and relocated in my patch - no objects not referenced by my patch (as they didn't conflict with BC) were replaced. Thus with v1.7, my patch now relocated non-existent objects (which simply made them records injected into CUO Chorrol) while the duplicate objects remained in conflicting locations. This was of course very easy to resolve, I merely had to use TES4Edit to change the Form ID of each injected record to match that of the corresponding duplicated object, and so the patch was swiftly usable again, and uploaded for anyone wishing to use both mods to download. Now I know Giskard is aware that only persistent objects have their location permanently stored in an existing game-save - it says so in his "How to make a compatible mod" guide (a guide which is for the most part quite accurate, it just lacks a rather vital final step to clean your mod with TES4Edit so as to remove the unwanted/accidental conflict entries) - thus it does appear that he did this purely to break the patch. Having said that, this could simply be how he mods - it would be necessary to compare various previous versions of some of his other mods to find out. Too much effort, even though TES4Edit's "Compare to..." utility makes this quite easy to do.
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[quote]I understood the chisel and the mallet, and thus the intended analogy, but all carpentry tools referenced after those ones are lost on me :D[/quote] I was going to add in using a CNC milling machine with a chisel and mallet, now i can see that my hesitations were founded.
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@Vorians: Wow, that really makes him sound like a jerk. Far beyond the impression I'd garnered previously. So, basically he released an update to him mod that [i]only[/i] included changes specifically intended to break someone else's mod. If we were talking about real world stuff instead of software he could be charged with destruction of personal property, or worse but vandalism at the least, for that.. I wonder if there isn't some clause in the various hacking laws that would apply as it is. :( @The_Fury: Indeed, it appears that reference would have been wasted. @tejon: I'm almost afraid to ask which part you figure was the initial explosion, but I'm guessing you mean the stuff about Giskard going all 'me against the machine' on the BC team and Samson because Elminster uploaded a cleaned up version of Giskard's mod? @Samson: Shouldn't Elminster be Elminister? Or do you suppose the name is intentionally misspelled to distinguish from the character in Forgotten Realms?
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Vorians, it wouldn't surprise me to learn he duplicates and then deletes every last reference in his mods. If he's grown accustomed to the way things need to be done in FO3 it may simply be a bad habit that's carrying over to Oblivion. That said, I think he did it maliciously to try and make you look bad so he could write up another big rant about it. I don't think he's realized just how fluent we are with the tools needed to deal with that kind of problem. @Conner: His actual handle on the BGS forum is "ElminsterEU". I left off the EU part because pretty much everyone from BGS will know who we're talking about anyway. So whatever the reason, that's how he spelled it.
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That business with messing up the patch IS some pretty gratuitous jackassery, isn't it? @Conner - 1. The whole Dremel versus router thing is making my inner carpenter weep. He's curled up in a little ball, and I can't get him to talk to me. I just thought you should know. Although, Re: Fury, he does want a CNC milling machine for no particular reason. My current set of scripting projects has me feeling like I'm trying to turn a Model T Ford into a Formula 1 racer. You'd think Giskard would feel like that a lot too. Maybe not. 2. Re: Elminster - huh? The FR character's name IS spelled Elminster, or did I miss something? Also, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Guiscard]random historical parallels[/url] just to further diversify the crazy topics in this thread.
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Sorry, Dwip, sometimes you've got no choice but to make do with what you have. If I could afford it, I'd have bought a router and several other tools for the place awhile ago, but right now it's all I can do to make ends meet month to month so, when a project comes up that I or the wife feels needs to be done, we do the best we can with what we've got to work with. :shrug: Okay, I did an online search and it seem Elminster is spelled that way in FR too, I don't know where I'd gotten the other spelling then but I could've sworn that it was spelled that way in the books or the D&D books. :redface: Given all I've heard/read so far about this guy, I don't think he gets that feeling at all, I think he sincerely believes that he's the paladin here and the BC team and Samson and so on are the demons. In other words, he's delusional. :shrug: Your random historical parallel is probably the source of Giskard's name, but what are you trying to imply about him from that reference?
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Hey, I don't even have a Dremel to my name right now, so I can't argue too hard. Kill for a powered drill. My shelf full of 2e and 3e FR stuff believes you to be incorrect. Also, it believes me to be a ridiculous FR nerd. If you read about Guiscard from the Byzantine perspective, he and his descendants pretty much show up to randomly grief everyone from time to time. I was amused by the parallel. Also it was an excuse to make a historical reference.
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@Dwip: Well, oddly enough, the dremel was a birthday gift to my wife one year and we each have our own cordless "screwdriver" with various bits for drilling, screwing, sanding, etc but mine also has interchangeable heads for sawing & sanding. But I'd kill for a lathe, drill press, standing jigsaw, table saw, router, etc... :sigh: Wait, Dwip, I'd just admitted that it was apparently my mistake... Hey, FR is one of the very best "campaign settings" that TSR or WotC ever came out with. Ravenloft is right up there too, but not nearly as well developed while still being perhaps a tad overdeveloped for it's size. :shrug: Ah, is that the link between the actual topic and the historical reference? Okay, I can see it now. :) @Samson: Well, yes, but even he usually has some reason that the reference in question has bearing. ;) I'm inclined to agree at this point, I've certainly not seen anything resembling clear evidence to the contrary yet. :lol:
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[quote]BTW, it's libel, not slander. Trust me when I tell you, if I'd been in the same room as you to be able to slander you, I'd have punched you in the face instead. [/quote] A. Awesome quote, and totally agreed. B. Be thankful, at least, that he didn't [i]attempt to sue you over it.[/i]
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I would really hope that even in today's crazy world he'd still have discovered that the judges wouldn't let him get much beyond the word attempt being operative. After all, even libel requires that your utterance against the other party be untrue and damaging yet in this case the most damaging words against Giskard have been uttered by Giskard himself. On the other hand, I think that the most damning utterances so far against everyone else involve also seem to be coming directly from Giskard as well, so perhaps Giskard's even luckier that no one else has decided to pursue a law suit against him for this crap.
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Well, Giskard is in the UK, and his libelous claims against me would cost far too much to pursue. If you mean that I should be thankful [i]he didn't sue me[/i] then I guess I hadn't figured he was that far gone. I shouldn't be surprised since he's threatened to call the police on Vorians already.
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Conner said: [quote]So, basically he released an update to his mod that only included changes specifically intended to break someone else's mod[/quote] No, the update also contained new quests and dialogue linked to one of his ESMs, which tie in with another of his ESPs relating to merchants and delivery quests (funny how Giskard suddenly decides to start producing delivery quests in his mods a mere week after BC's latest release which included the mod Delivery Job integrated into each city). However, the only changes made to the Chorrol worldspace were [i]apparently[/i] pointless tiny repositions followed by dupe & delete of the originals. Took very little time for me to update the patch however, as soon as I got home from work I sat down at my PC and had the patch-update online about an hour later.
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@Samson: I hadn't realized (lack of care?) that he was in the U.K., but I can understand entirely. I suppose if this were over libel/slander involving a business that could amount to a really large judgment.. but over free mods ... same problem we run into in the mudding community all the time too. A lot of legalities just aren't worth pursuing even if we've got solid grounds. @Vorians: Sure sounds to me like an attempt on his part to modify someone else's software without license in a malicious manner... but, at least it was minor enough to be nearly wasted effort. On the other hand, now users of BC that also want compatibility with his mods have yet another patch to have to download solely because he wanted to be an ass. So, who's really suffering from his otherwise pointless "war"? Those who use BC but are also his own supporters. Hmm, maybe it'll help teach them that they've cast their lot in the wrong team basket.
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[quote]If you mean that I should be thankful he didn't sue me then I guess I hadn't figured he was that far gone. I shouldn't be surprised since he's threatened to call the police on Vorians already.[/quote] No, I meant he did claim he was going to talk to a lawyer about the possibility of suing me (again, for slander). I have to assume that said lawyer, if he actually went through with it, laughed heartily in his face and then told Giskard to go away and stop wasting his time.
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The only people really suffering are users of the CUO mods. No one else is affected :) But the fact that the patches work (contrary to his claims) should help ease the suffering of having to update the patch each time he updates his mod. After all, he could so easily have added something new to the worldspace, which would have genuinely required an update to the patch to accommodate this addition. But don't forget, a compatibility patch is not a mod (not really) - it is merely a "bridge" between two mods. In fact what you just described as your view of his actions will be precisely his view on my creation of the patches for his mods - modification of his mods without license in a malicious manner (since he'll never recognise that patches are for the good of all, not merely to annoy him).
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