Giskard and False Accusations

[IsmeldaLasombra]

[url=http://www.theengineeringguild.co.uk/blog/696-cuo-brumas-extra-mile]Latest blog post[/url] and the interesting quote of it: [quote]Oh and one more thing, a little surprise I have been saving for the Better Cities team :) If you have used a modified version of any of my esps or esms or something that changes them in game in a manner usually associated with the sort of changes Better Cities people love to make without my permission. Then your saved game now contains a marker informing me you are in breach of my rights as a modder. Currently it is just sitting there in your saved game doing nothing, but its a simple task to use it to turn off all my mods primary content so they never work again in that save and just leave you with plain old eye candy. I just wanted to share that with you since I have been feeding the trolls that particular rope for some months now and its just about ready to hang them with :) Its a mistake to fuck with a modders work without his permission. Perhaps those doing it can now understand why.[/quote] So this is the latest delusion of Giskard. It is quite funny. I really would like to see it work because I just don't believe he can do that in any way. Of course we first would need to understand his definition of changing mods esp or esm but that beyond the our grasp of course. Looks like a fun Easter Egg to find though. And if it exist (do not forget that he is completely delusional 99% of the time) I'm quite sure it would be so simple to just disable :) let's the hunt begin!

[Arthmoor]

[quote=Giskard]Then your saved game now contains a marker informing me you are in breach of my rights as a modder.[/quote] If he thinks this should be taken literally, he's deluding himself. The game has no means to communicate this information back to him without him providing an obvious OBSE plugin to do so. Even then I don't think you can program network functions into OBSE plugins. So given that, it's probably a sabotage marker of some sort he's included in the thing. It would have to be scripted and be attached to either a quest or an activator of some kind, so it wouldn't be impossible to find said script and neuter it with a patch. If he's pissed about Nexus having kicked him off the site before, they're certainly not going to allow him back now that he's including sabotage bombs in his mods.

[Dallen68]

It's probably an activator of some kind. [quote=samson, the liberal lizard] If he's pissed about Nexus having kicked him off the site before, they're certainly not going to allow him back now that he's including sabotage bombs in his mods.[/quote] According to Dark0ne, @ some point Giskard "decided he was too good for Nexus, and left." Apparently this was like after months of arguing with, well you. However, I doubt they'll be welcoming him back with open arms.

[Arthmoor]

[quote]samson, the liberal lizard[/quote] *chuckle* Clearly you haven't been around here long enough :)

[Dallen68]

Just teasing you. Actually, if he did that, and it actually works as intended; it still does nothing to Better Cities. It just hurts the player (which is exactly what I told him before being banned for talking 2 U). This may be where his obsession becomes his downfall. Yes, his mods are really good-but to think your the worlds greatest modder while hiding from that world is completely insane.

[Arthmoor]

[quote]Apparently this was like after months of arguing with, well you.[/quote] Just noticed that part. He only thinks he spent months arguing with me in his delusional mind. I've hardly said a single word one way or the other to him in 2 years time. Though I wouldn't be surprised if he "argued" with me from the other side of his screen. The sad part here is you're right, his mods have the potential to be really great, but his fear of using simple tools to clean up the CS's mess is insane. Planting sabotage bombs inside his stuff is only going to make things worse, not better.

[Dallen68]

Actually, I meant arguing with you on Nexus and BOF, Well, not "you" personally, per se, but with the world at large. From his point of view, if the player doesn't see a conflict, it doesn't exist. So, no need for tools ;p . (I actually suspect he does use them) But that's not [i]exactly[/i] what I meant. What I meant, was hiding in your bedroom proclaiming yourself king of modders whilst only producing mods for the priveledged few isn't going to [b]destroy[/b] anyone.

[Vorians]

I wouldn't really describe it as "arguing" with anyone, not even the world at large. More like shouting loudly and throwing abuse at anyone with an opinion which differed from his own. The trouble is he cannot stand anyone who doesn't agree with him. If someone with more knowledge and understanding of a subject contradicts him, he views them as a threat, and quickly proclaims them a trouble-maker, or a "troll", since he loves that word so much. And if someone lacking in knowledge contradicts him (even politely and respectfully) he still views them as a threat. I guess there's a bit of an inferiority complex mixed up in his delusions. Most people in the TES modding community just want to get along with each other, and are willing to listen to the opinions of others. The people who don't like this end up getting banned from Beth forums and Nexus. Thanks to the community, I've learnt so much about modding over the last two point five years (the time during which I've been aware of Giskard's existence). In that same time, Giskard has learnt nothing. He still holds desperately to the same knowledge he knew back then, and shuns any new knowledge which might allow him to become a better modder. Now he's like a brave soldier, holding fast from the wall-tops of his castle, with the few still loyal or scared enough rallying around him, shouting defiance to the world. Quite unaware that his castle is an asylum, and the world has moved on.

[Dallen68]

I've noticed that he does take things a little "to" personally. He bans people for the slightest little thing, and sometimes he has difficulty communicating clearly.(Perhaps a symptom of his delusions?) To be fair, his mods have improved in the last couple years-he has learned a lot about scripting and that sort of thing. I just think his energy would be much better spent doing something constructive other than "try to destroy the BC team". [insert evil laugh here]

[Conner]

So, essentially he's threatening to have inserted some sort of phone home virus into his mods that's triggered by modding his mods? :facepalm:

[Arthmoor]

The nature of how mods work prevents that sort of thing. He's implying he's dropped a time bomb of some kind inside them though. How he'd activate it is anyone's guess.

[Dallen68]

Ok, since his target is Vorians and Arthmoor, (as well as others) here's how you do it. You make a tree, or a rock, or something like that, that no one gives a shit about. You give it the same ID as an existing tree or rock, then you delete and replace with the new object. When Vorians runs tes4edit to clean the mod, the new object is removed and the old one replaces it; this causes the features to not operate because the script is not on the vanilla object.

[Arthmoor]

Is that why he deletes and replaces EVERYTHING he touches? Because he thinks it'll cause tes4edit to blow up the game for him? He's wrong, that won't happen. It's impossible because those new items will not register as "identical to master" records since they'll have new formIDs. The only thing his antics do is waste his time and a little bit of ours as we chuckle over it making him look completely incompetent. It doesn't interfere in the slightest with making patches or anything of that sort.

[Vorians]

THAT'S his Evil Genius plan? Damn. I was giving him way too much credit. I actually came up with ways to do what he claimed (ways which could theoretically work). Is that what he's done, Dallen, or are you just suggesting a possibility? What you describe wouldn't have any negative effect on cleaning a mod, as Samson said. He needs to be more creative than that. Actually reading that closely, what you describe would break the script in HIS mod. Cleaning would probably repair the script. Take a persistent object touched by a script, copy its Editor ID, and delete the vanilla object. Doing this breaks the script, as scripts once compiled use an object's Form ID, not the Editor ID. If the object's Editor ID gets changed or removed, the script will still work. But if the object is deleted, the Form ID is no longer valid, and the script cannot run. Placing another identical object in the same place and giving it the same Editor ID will not keep the script working, as the Form ID will be different. You'd need to also recompile the script to reference the new Form ID. Cleaning the mod would undelete the deleted object, and disable it. When disabled, the Form ID becomes valid once more, and the script will probably be able to run (though might still have some issues due to having persistency removed while disabled). The duplicate object with the same Editor ID and a different Form ID would not be touched by the automated cleaning process, it would simply become redundant. However, someone such as Samson or myself would simply delete the copy, restore the vanilla, and ensure that the script is reverted to vanilla before using the mod. I really was hoping for a more interesting time bomb, you know.

[Dallen68]

I was suggesting a possibility.

[Dallen68]

Oh, no-you have to give the edited object the same form id as the original object, see.

[Dallen68]

ACtually, what Vorians said is probably how it works: write a disabling script that involves some form id. If uncleaned, the mod does not find the form id, and therefor nothing happens. If cleaned, the mod finds the form ID and disables the mod.

[Hana]

Now you guys are just helping him :P

[IsmeldaLasombra]

[url=http://www.theengineeringguild.co.uk/blog/697-message-for-better-cities]Message for Better Cities[/url], yes that includes you Athmoor as he made you a member of the team. [quote]Puts on his best Londo impression and practices his Estemed Narn Friends speech.... Right I am ready :)[/quote] Funny to choose the one character that looks pathetic and good in the first season to become the arch villain in the rest the show (Babylon 5) while staying pathetic... It is quite a good comparison. Too bad you lack Londo sense of humour and knowledge that he is the bad in the story. [quote]I have been told you got my message within hours of me sending it, nice to know my good friends at BC are lurking around here whether they are welcome or not. I returned the favour and read your site and found a couple of ever so minor points that demand a comment, very minor, almost nitpicking, so minor that I am actually embarrassed to mention them.[/quote] We must too kind. Also if you don't want us to see those picks you throw at us, maybe you should only tell them in your user only forums. I'm not registered there so you could have insult us and declare a war, and even won it all in your private world without me noticing. That would have been so nice for everyone... [quote]But you appear to have posted your evil plan to rip me off again in a public thread called "Giskards unwarranted accusations". A minor oversight on your part I am sure but might I suggest making the evil plan to rip me off private next time ? Also the thread name "Giskards unwarranted accusations", you have already claimed not to have ever ripped me off, so don`t you think it might confuse people to see you planning to rip me off in that thread.[/quote] I guess someone saw our intention of re-establishing the truth as a plan to conquest their empire. We do not care of your empire but only want what is our: Peace in our countries. That means we have no plan of ripping you out of anything. We would have been happy to let you rot in your quadrant of the galaxy I assure you. But you declared war... [i]It is called "Giskard and False Accusations" and not "Giskards unwarranted accusations". Still trying to re-establish the truth here.[/i] [quote]So I suggest you start a new thread for the evil plan, make it double top secret and call it "Giskards warranted accusations". Also since you have gone on record as claiming to use the same nicknames everywhere. Actually being seen to use your favourite nickname on more than 1 site might go a long way towards convincing people you`re not lying about that too.[/quote] Most of us just use the same nickname everywhere yes. Now thinking that someone is someone else because he uses the same nickname is much more probable that thinking that the same someone is someone else because he is not using the same nickname. Sometimes you can't use the same one because it is already used or because it doesn't have enough letters. Mostly I will just add Lasombra to Ismelda if that is the case. So how clever of me to disguise myself as IsmeldaLasombra instead of Ismelda only or Ismelda only instead of IsmeldaLasombra. Sure no one will notice it is the same person! ahahahah!!! Well anyway, we do not need to hide ourselves as we do not tend to go on war we people and throw accusation on them while making sure they can't ever respond to any of our accusations. [quote]I hope this helps you out guys, you know I am your closest and most trust worthy friend as always :)[/quote] Yeah, it makes us smile as always. Sometimes even laugh. Happy you got the message though. I hope the war is over now heh? Oh no! An armada of shadow ships are approaching our colonies!!! Have it your way then... "[i]The truth is a 3 edges sword[/i]" said Kosh. Until now users only had your edge, now they have ours. They are now able to get their own edge of the situation.

[Vorians]

[quote=Dallen]Oh, no-you have to give the edited object the same form id as the original object, see. ACtually, what Vorians said is probably how it works: write a disabling script that involves some form id. If uncleaned, the mod does not find the form id, and therefor nothing happens. If cleaned, the mod finds the form ID and disables the mod.[/quote] But then you're not replacing the object, you're just swapping out the base object. And if you do that, cleaning the mod won't touch that change, as auto-cleaning only touches records which aren't changed. Records with their base object swapped out are not identical to the original record, and thus will be left alone. And manually cleaning the mod (which only more experienced TES4Edit users would attempt) would either leave the change alone or revert to vanilla - either way, the state of the object would remain unchanged with regards a script, as a script cannot be written to check the base object of a placed object. And regardless of all that, TES4Edit will clearly display any script referencing the object in the mod, so you can simply read the script and determine what it does, then rewrite and recompile if desired.

[Vorians]

From the same blog IsmeldaLasombra (who may or may not be Ismelda too, it's very hard to tell) quoted: [quote=Giskard]Message for Better Cities... I returned the favour and read your site[/quote] What site? There is no Better Cities site, just the page on Nexus and the thread on Beth forums. Oh you mean this site? This isn't our site, this is Samson's (who may or may not be Arthmoor too, but it's much easier to tell than with Ismelda due to the striking differences in the spelling of the two names). Samson (or Arthmoor?) isn't even part of Better Cities, so how could this site possibly be mistaken for a Better Cities site? There isn't even any info about Better Cities on this site. [quote=Giskard]might I suggest making the evil plan to rip me off private next time ?[/quote] You've lost us completely with this line. Where is this "evil plan"? All we've been talking about here is the "[url=http://www.theengineeringguild.co.uk/blog/696-cuo-brumas-extra-mile]evil plan[/url]" publicly announced by yourself, implying that anyone using Better Cities and your mods is going to find that your mods are broken soon.

[Conner]

I'm with Hanaisse on this one, now you guys are just helping him. :lol: That's great that he's made Samson a part of the BC team, I had no idea that he had the authority to extend the invite/approve the applicant/what-have-you nor to decide for Samson to accept that invite/apply for the position/what-have-you... :crazy: Yes, I would agree with Ismelda that if you're going to come along claiming you're announcing minor corrections that are nearly nit-picking you should probably at least get the name of the thread they're located in correct. :rolleyes: Right, I don't know who he's claiming uses different nicknames on different sites, but I can personally vouch that Samson uses, and has used, Samson and Arthmoor almost exclusively for more than a decade now on multiple sites because those are the two names I've known him by at multiple sites including my own multiple sites for almost a decade now. Within the MUD community he's very well known and generally well respected by those names too. Of course, I've also never known him to in any way conceal his real name either, so I'm really not sure why there's even an implication of confusion about it. Unfortunately, I don't really follow most of the mainstream Oblivion sites and thus hadn't met Ismelda or Vorians or Dallen or Sigurd before their appearances here so someone else will have to vouch for their histories but I rather suspect they can and will be vouched for too. Giskard, on the other hand, I've only known because of his claims against Samson which doesn't exactly put him in a positive light in my eyes since I know Samson and his work well. I know that Samson can be impulsive and stubborn, but he's very rarely outright vindictive or blatantly wrong, and his standards of quality are generally very high. All of which discredit most of Giskard's claims from what I've seen. [Edit] Oh yeah, as for any evil plans being plotted here against Giskard, considering I've been fairly active in the discussions in this thread since it was first posted one would expect that I'd be aware of such plans, yet, oddly, I'm still only aware of the ones that Giskard himself has announced to which we've responded, mostly in laughter...

[Vorians]

Well said, Conner! Oh and in case anyone is unaware, Giskard changed his name on his new site, and goes by the moniker of "The Guild Master". Since he neglected to make a public announcement on the various popular modding sites of his intent to use a new name on his own site, some may not realise that he is in fact Giskard.

[Arthmoor]

Pretty funny stuff. An evil plot hatched to rip him off? Foolishly posted in public as though we aren't aware? I think he needs to go find his pills and make sure they're not expired. [quote=Dallen]Oh, no-you have to give the edited object the same form id as the original object, see.[/quote] Not entirely sure what you mean by this, but if he deletes the original, makes a new object (which his mods are doing) and then tries to reassign the new object to the formID of the original... that's not even possible. Certainly can't be done within the CS, so he's backhandedly admitting he's using the very tools he condemns. Either Gecko or TES4Edit. If he thinks us analyzing that is some fiendish plot to rip him off he's nuts. If anything us discussing it exposes the fact that he's deliberately engineering ways to break peoples' games. With malicious intent. That's not going to help him gain more acceptance, it's going to drive people further away from them when it inevitably gets mentioned in threads about his work. He should take his own advice about talking about things like this in public, because he's left the record there for all to see. [quote=Giskard]you have already claimed not to have ever ripped me off[/quote] That's because nobody here has. You're delusional, just like Locke. If Londo Molari is someone you idolize, then it would serve people well to remember he also said this: [quote]...let the rest of the galaxy burn. I don't care any more.[/quote] Seems fitting given your current state of mind.

[IsmeldaLasombra]

At least we are all fan of Babylon 5 :)