Giskard and False Accusations

[Dallen68]

Ok, since his target is Vorians and Arthmoor, (as well as others) here's how you do it. You make a tree, or a rock, or something like that, that no one gives a shit about. You give it the same ID as an existing tree or rock, then you delete and replace with the new object. When Vorians runs tes4edit to clean the mod, the new object is removed and the old one replaces it; this causes the features to not operate because the script is not on the vanilla object.

[Arthmoor]

Is that why he deletes and replaces EVERYTHING he touches? Because he thinks it'll cause tes4edit to blow up the game for him? He's wrong, that won't happen. It's impossible because those new items will not register as "identical to master" records since they'll have new formIDs. The only thing his antics do is waste his time and a little bit of ours as we chuckle over it making him look completely incompetent. It doesn't interfere in the slightest with making patches or anything of that sort.

[Vorians]

THAT'S his Evil Genius plan? Damn. I was giving him way too much credit. I actually came up with ways to do what he claimed (ways which could theoretically work). Is that what he's done, Dallen, or are you just suggesting a possibility? What you describe wouldn't have any negative effect on cleaning a mod, as Samson said. He needs to be more creative than that. Actually reading that closely, what you describe would break the script in HIS mod. Cleaning would probably repair the script. Take a persistent object touched by a script, copy its Editor ID, and delete the vanilla object. Doing this breaks the script, as scripts once compiled use an object's Form ID, not the Editor ID. If the object's Editor ID gets changed or removed, the script will still work. But if the object is deleted, the Form ID is no longer valid, and the script cannot run. Placing another identical object in the same place and giving it the same Editor ID will not keep the script working, as the Form ID will be different. You'd need to also recompile the script to reference the new Form ID. Cleaning the mod would undelete the deleted object, and disable it. When disabled, the Form ID becomes valid once more, and the script will probably be able to run (though might still have some issues due to having persistency removed while disabled). The duplicate object with the same Editor ID and a different Form ID would not be touched by the automated cleaning process, it would simply become redundant. However, someone such as Samson or myself would simply delete the copy, restore the vanilla, and ensure that the script is reverted to vanilla before using the mod. I really was hoping for a more interesting time bomb, you know.

[Dallen68]

I was suggesting a possibility.

[Dallen68]

Oh, no-you have to give the edited object the same form id as the original object, see.

[Dallen68]

ACtually, what Vorians said is probably how it works: write a disabling script that involves some form id. If uncleaned, the mod does not find the form id, and therefor nothing happens. If cleaned, the mod finds the form ID and disables the mod.

[Hana]

Now you guys are just helping him :P

[IsmeldaLasombra]

Message for Better Cities, yes that includes you Athmoor as he made you a member of the team.

Puts on his best Londo impression and practices his Estemed Narn Friends speech.... Right I am ready :)

Funny to choose the one character that looks pathetic and good in the first season to become the arch villain in the rest the show (Babylon 5) while staying pathetic... It is quite a good comparison. Too bad you lack Londo sense of humour and knowledge that he is the bad in the story.

I have been told you got my message within hours of me sending it, nice to know my good friends at BC are lurking around here whether they are welcome or not. I returned the favour and read your site and found a couple of ever so minor points that demand a comment, very minor, almost nitpicking, so minor that I am actually embarrassed to mention them.

We must too kind. Also if you don't want us to see those picks you throw at us, maybe you should only tell them in your user only forums. I'm not registered there so you could have insult us and declare a war, and even won it all in your private world without me noticing. That would have been so nice for everyone...

But you appear to have posted your evil plan to rip me off again in a public thread called "Giskards unwarranted accusations". A minor oversight on your part I am sure but might I suggest making the evil plan to rip me off private next time ? Also the thread name "Giskards unwarranted accusations", you have already claimed not to have ever ripped me off, so don`t you think it might confuse people to see you planning to rip me off in that thread.

I guess someone saw our intention of re-establishing the truth as a plan to conquest their empire. We do not care of your empire but only want what is our: Peace in our countries. That means we have no plan of ripping you out of anything. We would have been happy to let you rot in your quadrant of the galaxy I assure you. But you declared war... It is called "Giskard and False Accusations" and not "Giskards unwarranted accusations". Still trying to re-establish the truth here.

So I suggest you start a new thread for the evil plan, make it double top secret and call it "Giskards warranted accusations". Also since you have gone on record as claiming to use the same nicknames everywhere. Actually being seen to use your favourite nickname on more than 1 site might go a long way towards convincing people you`re not lying about that too.

Most of us just use the same nickname everywhere yes. Now thinking that someone is someone else because he uses the same nickname is much more probable that thinking that the same someone is someone else because he is not using the same nickname. Sometimes you can't use the same one because it is already used or because it doesn't have enough letters. Mostly I will just add Lasombra to Ismelda if that is the case. So how clever of me to disguise myself as IsmeldaLasombra instead of Ismelda only or Ismelda only instead of IsmeldaLasombra. Sure no one will notice it is the same person! ahahahah!!! Well anyway, we do not need to hide ourselves as we do not tend to go on war we people and throw accusation on them while making sure they can't ever respond to any of our accusations.

I hope this helps you out guys, you know I am your closest and most trust worthy friend as always :)

Yeah, it makes us smile as always. Sometimes even laugh. Happy you got the message though. I hope the war is over now heh? Oh no! An armada of shadow ships are approaching our colonies!!! Have it your way then... "The truth is a 3 edges sword" said Kosh. Until now users only had your edge, now they have ours. They are now able to get their own edge of the situation.

[Vorians]

Oh, no-you have to give the edited object the same form id as the original object, see. ACtually, what Vorians said is probably how it works: write a disabling script that involves some form id. If uncleaned, the mod does not find the form id, and therefor nothing happens. If cleaned, the mod finds the form ID and disables the mod.

But then you're not replacing the object, you're just swapping out the base object. And if you do that, cleaning the mod won't touch that change, as auto-cleaning only touches records which aren't changed. Records with their base object swapped out are not identical to the original record, and thus will be left alone. And manually cleaning the mod (which only more experienced TES4Edit users would attempt) would either leave the change alone or revert to vanilla - either way, the state of the object would remain unchanged with regards a script, as a script cannot be written to check the base object of a placed object. And regardless of all that, TES4Edit will clearly display any script referencing the object in the mod, so you can simply read the script and determine what it does, then rewrite and recompile if desired.

[Vorians]

From the same blog IsmeldaLasombra (who may or may not be Ismelda too, it's very hard to tell) quoted:

Message for Better Cities... I returned the favour and read your site

What site? There is no Better Cities site, just the page on Nexus and the thread on Beth forums. Oh you mean this site? This isn't our site, this is Samson's (who may or may not be Arthmoor too, but it's much easier to tell than with Ismelda due to the striking differences in the spelling of the two names). Samson (or Arthmoor?) isn't even part of Better Cities, so how could this site possibly be mistaken for a Better Cities site? There isn't even any info about Better Cities on this site.

might I suggest making the evil plan to rip me off private next time ?

You've lost us completely with this line. Where is this "evil plan"? All we've been talking about here is the "evil plan" publicly announced by yourself, implying that anyone using Better Cities and your mods is going to find that your mods are broken soon.

[Conner]

I'm with Hanaisse on this one, now you guys are just helping him. :lol: That's great that he's made Samson a part of the BC team, I had no idea that he had the authority to extend the invite/approve the applicant/what-have-you nor to decide for Samson to accept that invite/apply for the position/what-have-you... :crazy: Yes, I would agree with Ismelda that if you're going to come along claiming you're announcing minor corrections that are nearly nit-picking you should probably at least get the name of the thread they're located in correct. :rolleyes: Right, I don't know who he's claiming uses different nicknames on different sites, but I can personally vouch that Samson uses, and has used, Samson and Arthmoor almost exclusively for more than a decade now on multiple sites because those are the two names I've known him by at multiple sites including my own multiple sites for almost a decade now. Within the MUD community he's very well known and generally well respected by those names too. Of course, I've also never known him to in any way conceal his real name either, so I'm really not sure why there's even an implication of confusion about it. Unfortunately, I don't really follow most of the mainstream Oblivion sites and thus hadn't met Ismelda or Vorians or Dallen or Sigurd before their appearances here so someone else will have to vouch for their histories but I rather suspect they can and will be vouched for too. Giskard, on the other hand, I've only known because of his claims against Samson which doesn't exactly put him in a positive light in my eyes since I know Samson and his work well. I know that Samson can be impulsive and stubborn, but he's very rarely outright vindictive or blatantly wrong, and his standards of quality are generally very high. All of which discredit most of Giskard's claims from what I've seen. [Edit] Oh yeah, as for any evil plans being plotted here against Giskard, considering I've been fairly active in the discussions in this thread since it was first posted one would expect that I'd be aware of such plans, yet, oddly, I'm still only aware of the ones that Giskard himself has announced to which we've responded, mostly in laughter...

[Vorians]

Well said, Conner! Oh and in case anyone is unaware, Giskard changed his name on his new site, and goes by the moniker of "The Guild Master". Since he neglected to make a public announcement on the various popular modding sites of his intent to use a new name on his own site, some may not realise that he is in fact Giskard.

[Arthmoor]

Pretty funny stuff. An evil plot hatched to rip him off? Foolishly posted in public as though we aren't aware? I think he needs to go find his pills and make sure they're not expired.

Oh, no-you have to give the edited object the same form id as the original object, see.

Not entirely sure what you mean by this, but if he deletes the original, makes a new object (which his mods are doing) and then tries to reassign the new object to the formID of the original... that's not even possible. Certainly can't be done within the CS, so he's backhandedly admitting he's using the very tools he condemns. Either Gecko or TES4Edit. If he thinks us analyzing that is some fiendish plot to rip him off he's nuts. If anything us discussing it exposes the fact that he's deliberately engineering ways to break peoples' games. With malicious intent. That's not going to help him gain more acceptance, it's going to drive people further away from them when it inevitably gets mentioned in threads about his work. He should take his own advice about talking about things like this in public, because he's left the record there for all to see.

you have already claimed not to have ever ripped me off

That's because nobody here has. You're delusional, just like Locke. If Londo Molari is someone you idolize, then it would serve people well to remember he also said this:

...let the rest of the galaxy burn. I don't care any more.

Seems fitting given your current state of mind.

[IsmeldaLasombra]

At least we are all fan of Babylon 5 :)

[Hana]

roflmao Now people can't use different names on different sites? Is this some law I'm not aware of? God forbid people change their nicks, especially if their display name is already in use (get it? lol). What a serious faux pas! Shame on you guys! And now we're the evil Better Cities site with the evil plot to take down the world. Oi. :lol:

[Arthmoor]

Well Dwip and I have been attempting to achieve World Domination^[tm] for a good 15 years or so now. You're all just our unwitting pawns in the whole affair.

[Dwip]

All for the greater glory of the Wedgy, of course.

[Conner]

Thanks, Vorians, I just call 'em as I see 'em. ;) *Gasp!* He didn't?!? :lol: Yes, I can honestly say that we've probably all watched Babylon 5, though it seems some of us more closely than others. :P I know that, in the past, I've actually used other, very different, nicknames because I didn't want to use my real name nor a common alias, so I must be the worst of us, but even I generally use Conner or Conner Destron or some variant of that when I'm not using a variant of my real name. :shrug: I don't recall anyone (other than Giskard) declaring this the new official BC Team site, but I'll bet no one here would object if they did. Especially now that Giskard has "promoted" Samson to being an active member of the BC team... :lol: Well, yes, Samson, but that's an entirely separate matter from what Giskard seems to be prattling about. ;)

[Vorians]

Here's something interesting. Current CUO Cities WIP for Giskard is Bruma. He's very proud to have incorporated features once common in the outdated mod IWR (Illumination Within Revived or something like that). This mod looked great, but was of course highly incompatible with mods changing the cities, and could only affect the vanilla-placed buildings, not those added or moved by mods. It also affected FPS badly. IWR was made obsolete a year or so ago by Ismelda (and others) with AWLS (Animated Window Lighting System and Chimneys), which gives the same visual effect (plus smoke from chimneys), but with no FPS impact at all, and with 100% compatibility with all mods, including mod-placed buildings (if using vanilla building statics). AWLS also provides a tool to make new building meshes provide the AWLS lighting effect, and if using one of the AWLS ESPs, provides timings for the lights to turn on and off. Giskard really should just leave window lighting to AWLS, which handles it much better than IWR ever did. If only there were a way to suggest it to him, but of course if anyone registered on his forums did, they'd likely be banned.

[Dallen68]

The fact Ismelda made it, makes it a bad mod. Aren't you paying attention? :stare:

[Conner]

Oh, AWLS was Ismelda's? Nice job! :) Hey, even a bad modder could produce a good mod once in awhile, and Ismelda doesn't seem like a bad modder from what I've seen. ..as for Giskard's warped perspective, I have more of the impression that [i]he[/i] didn't make it matters far more than who did make it for it to automatically disqualify as a worthwhile mod. :rolleyes:

[Arthmoor]

I lol'd. He's proud of sticking some fake light sources in front of the windows without even making the windows look lit? His isolation has cut him off from the advances of the last 4 years. He's still modding like it's 2006.

[Conner]

We're not even talking like making the effect look like a candle in front of the window?

[Dallen68]

I didn't see anything different than Vanilla windows there. :cry:

[Vorians]

I guess it's unfair of us to bash his mod so much though. Because of his isolation, it's not surprising that he's still using methods from 2006. I shouldn't have brought it up, it was bad of me.