Giskard and False Accusations

[Conner]

@PetrusOctavianus: Well, I suppose either Rowen Atkinson or Simon Baker is better than looking like Tom Baker. @Vorians: I didn't say it was a bad statement, just an interesting one and that it was basically a recap of the original post. @Hanaisse: No doubt, on both counts! @Anonymous: Seconded, does the motion carry?

[Vorians]

Sounds like the latest Anonymous just watched his home become pretty, then saw the pretty become a dull pile of rubble.

[Conner]

It was in the way when giskard demanded his rock be put back. ;)

[Orisha]

As I was going through all my installed mods in TES4EDIT to fix as many conflicts as possible, I came upon this entry: HannibalTravenDrawerREF [REFR:0006C4C5] (places ZOOODrawerNoble02ClutterWizTraven "Exquisite Drawers" [CONT:08006D45] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of ICArcaneUniversityArchMagesQuarters "Arch-Mage's Quarters" [CELL:00049CF8]) Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul makes this a Persistent Reference and IIRC that caused som conflict with Origin of the Mages Guild and made Giskard hyperventilate. Or it made him gloat that he found one mistake Oscuro supposedly did. Anyone remember excactly what the problem was? I've deleted all of G's mods from my HD so I can't check myself.

[Vorians]

I know it well. It isn't a mistake in OOO, but Giskard claimed it was, and pointed it out for all to recognise how crap OOO modders were. Here are the facts: OOO edits the container, replacing its contents for a quest. OMG edits the container, making it non-respawning so that the player can use it to store things once they are the arch-mage. Whichever loads last wins. Once the conflict was reported, dev_akm (politely) suggested to Giskard that his edit was unnecessary, probably because it has no real benefit to gameplay. I don't need to describe the response he got, but the result was that dev_akm produced a compatibility patch for OOO and OMG, and that was the end of the matter for OOO and dev_akm. About a week later Giskard announced that because OOO was so badly designed that it broke his mod, and because the modders working on OOO were more interested in flaming him than actually fixing the problem, he would produce a compatibility patch for the conflict, and did so. Then he released OMG v5.1 and removed the conflict, adding this to the changelog:

Removed the fix for the respawning drawer at the bottom of Travens bed. This means any items in that drawer will be lost every 3 days again. Thank OOO for that, it rather stupidly made a cupboard everybody edits a quest item, and OOO breaks if OMG or any other mod fixes that buggy drawer. So to avoid issues, I have had to remove the fix for OOO users benefits. To say I am deeply pissed about having to do this is a massive understatement.

So the conflict ceased to exist and both versions of the compatibility patch were made redundant. And then in v6, Giskard replaced the conflicting container, thus ensuring that OOO was broken because the vanilla container had been deleted.

Replaced the Drawer in the Archmages quarters (that was marked respawn) with one that does not respawn to stop the player losing his stuff every 3 days.

So the conflict is now even worse than before, and a patch is needed. Neither of the previous two patches are likely to be compatible with this. This means that if you're no longer using OMG, you simply want the container to be as OOO edits it.

[Arthmoor]

Well here's the funny thing. Giskard got all bent out of shape and yelled and screamed at the OOO team for "breaking" that container when he didn't bother to stop and look at an even more widely used popular mod that ALSO edits the container - the UOP. To that, I say, Giskard WTF were you thinking! The UOP did your work for you, there was never any need to edit the container in OMG at all! That said, I am looking at the container now in TES4Edit with OOO loaded and I don't see the issue. At all. OOO lists the substituted container with no respawn flag attached. So I don't see how Giskard ever had any need to touch the container at all. Much less to DELETE a vanilla item to replace it with his own copy. THAT breaks shit in so many ways it's not even funny. For far more people that just OOO users. He's broken it for UOP users as well. So the patch is needed to correct it for practically everyone who plays Oblivion with OMG installed. Nice move Giskard. Anyway, Petrus, the conflict you detected is a non-issue. It's a safe substitution. Of a type that the CS is incapable of doing, but the result is that it's not something you need to worry about.

[Conner]

Well, at least he had the sense to be pissed about having made a complete screw-up even if he choose to blame someone else for the screw-up. :rolleyes:

[Orisha]

Well, as I see it, OOO did the correct thing in replacing the vanilla DrawerClutterUpperClothing02 "Drawers" [CONT:00024A56] with its own ZOOODrawerNoble02ClutterWizTraven "Exquisite Drawers" [CONT:08006D45] instead of editing the vanilla drawers. The most common mistake I see modders do is editing vanilla records, and especially containers, thus making all instances of that container, both vanilla and mod added, contain the loot that was really intended for only one or a few containers.

[Conner]

I suppose that could be a boon for treasure seekers, but I would certainly see that as a bug. :lol:

[Arthmoor]

Yep, the UOP handles the replacement in a similar manner, it swaps the vanilla base object out for one of its own. [REFR:0006C4C5] (places DrawerClutterUpperClothingArchMages "Drawers" [CONT:020011CC] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICArcaneUniversityArchMagesQuarters "Arch-Mage's Quarters" [CELL:00049CF8]) The change is entirely compatible with what OOO does. Magic. A form of magic Giskard is incapable of casting because of his hateful distrust of TES4Edit. OOO takes it a step further though and also locks the chest and gives it faction ownership. No doubt because it puts some MG quest related rewards in there that the player would be able to steal too easily without it.

[prettyfly]

I decided I was going to search for 'why did Giskard leave' (mentioned way back near the topic of the article). I found this. I'm not holding my breath on this one, but it could be the same guy. I'm going off that he is from the UK, writes his name at the bottom of some of his posts and whinges about site bandwidth. And he stops posting right around the time Oblivion was released. Its a long shot for sure, but it is possible. And sorry for necromancing, but when I found the above site I couldn't help it.

[Arthmoor]

Yes, that's him. Same writing style. Same bogus excuses about his site's bandwidth being the reason. The pattern goes back quite a ways with him. Also, the link to "respawn" gave it away completely. That's one of his old sites. (I really need to work out some method for paging links)

[prettyfly]

Woo, me the master detective (not really).

[Dallen68]

:sigh: Pretty the Necromancer! In all seriousness, the page that came up for me on that link actually made Giskard look like he was a nice guy that made a relatively simple mod; and everyone else was going ga-ga over the fact he figured out how to tick a box.

[Conner]

Pretty the Necromancer!

(I really need to work out some method for paging links)

Ooo, that'd be really awesome. Let's face it, Giskard considers himself a really nice guy who's making awesome mods, and there are some folks who go ga-ga over him. Oh, and Prettyfly, one more clue for you, he'd told us all before (somewhere, no clue off-hand where now) that he'd modded for Total War (amongst other games) before too.

[prettyfly]

Oh, and he's back... He doesn't seem to be bearing too much of a grudge; just this and this, and, well, every comment he makes on the Oblivion modding in the forums. So expect him to be making the consistent (albeit small) back handed comments towards the Oblivion community, though he doesn't seem to be interested in any flaming on the previous level...

[Arthmoor]

He rips on the Oblivion community only because thus far it's been the only community to stand up to his aggressiveness and his lies. Criminal moderators? Good lord the guy's a total narcissistic delusional nutjob. They banned him because he was a troll, nothing more. All the others appear to have just ignored him entirely as he makes up crap about this and that and even slams the companies who are providing him the games he spends ages modding for. My feeling is, if you hate X so much, why do it? As far as flaming, it won't take him long to get back to that. It's all he knows.

[Conner]

It's all about the love-hate relationship, he just couldn't stay away any longer, right? :P

[prettyfly]

And what do you know; here he goes again. Making specific reference to bashing and merging and cleaning and the likes.

[Arthmoor]

Nobody is more aware of the problems within the Elder Scrolls community that I am, I suffered the worse of them so I am in a unique position to tackle them in Skyrim.

I don't know whether to laugh my ass of, or cry a tear of sorrow for him and his delusions. NONE of us knows what sort of issues lie in wait for us with Skyrim. Creation Kit != TES Construction Set. Creation Engine != Gamebryo. So anything we all have known about mods, compatibility, modeling, texturing, etc are likely to all be out the window. We're almost certainly all looking at starting fresh. Nobody knows if we'll need things like Wrye Bash or OBMM or TES4Edit. Whatever tools are needed, I trust that those who develop them are going to be the actual knowledgeable people in the field. Not the ones who exist in total isolation from the rest of community, cut off from a vast pool of knowledge and support that's the friendliest community I've ever been a part of. One that only turns on you if you thoroughly deserve it for being arrogant, narcissistic, hostile, or are giving out outright BAD information that will lead people to hosing their game.

So I have been thinking, should we support Skyrim or just let them rot in their own hell hole.

Please, let us rot in our own "hell hole". We'll be doing just fine without you. My prediction for the future: He'll jump right in like he always does, make a bunch of mods, have no clue WTF he's doing, then call everyone trolls and hatemongers for pointing out that his mods aren't working. If I could afford to do so, I'd lay a $1,000 bet right now on it.

[prettyfly]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wants to bet against you :grinning:

[Conner]

I'll just second prettyfly. This tiger's shown his stripes, and his toothless grin, and we've all heard his roar. At this point we already know he's not about to become spotted nor go bringing down a prize gazelle. ;) (and that's about the nicest analogy I'll bet anyone lays out for him anytime soon...)

[prettyfly]

More of the same Bash, patch and merge is the cause of all the problems in the modding world and why people have problems with their game and CUO is compatible with everything, without patches (even though Giskard himself went to quite some length to ensure non-compatibility with some mods...)

[Arthmoor]

Should go without saying that he's entirely full of shit. And again, he's not qualified to even mention Skyrim's mod system when nobody knows what it will be like. It might not even use the same ESM/ESP system. One thing is for certain though. All of his mods are filled with conflicts both of his own deliberate making and those of the CS's making that he didn't intend to have in the mod. It's this concept he doesn't grasp, or is stubbornly refusing to acknowledge, that causes the entire problem. He considers it an insult to point out that the CS make fake edits to thousands of records. Honestly, I don't know why you're bothering to read his site at all. Every last shred of advice he's giving is wrong.

[prettyfly]

Mostly because I like to lol at the shit he puts out. And I've got lots of spare time, so I've got room to read up on a delusional moron's rantings.