Giskard and False Accusations

[Vorians]

Back to Giskard: For someone that doesn't care what happens to people once he's banned them, he sure spends a lot of time worrying about what there doing.

He also spends far too much time worrying about what people who have never actually done anything against him are doing, I guess he just likes to worry about people.

[Conner]

Perhaps he's a bit paranoid as well as delusional?

[Dallen68]

Of course he is. He does have 'some' good traits,too. In a way, he reminds me of my dad, in which case he's schizophenic-which means which Giskard your dealing with "today" is like totally random. The only thing I can think of that's ever been "against" him, is Elminster's version of KA. Even 'that' Elminster did it isn't against him. It's that Elminster 'said' "cleaned and fixed". If he said "made compatible with open/better cities" it wouldn't be "against him". (I was going to say he wouldn't have been offended, but...when your talking about people that are looking under the rocks looking for reasons to be offended....:shrug: )

[Conner]

I don't even think "cleaned and fixed" sounds like it's against him, if anything it implies that someone thought his mods were good enough to merit taking the time and effort to clean up and share with everyone else. Granted, it would've been better to consult with the author directly first since he was still clearly active, but...

[Dallen68]

I agreee

[Dallen68]

I was "playing" with Conner! I did not mean for anyone to stop funcuning becasu of anything I sed. :cry:

[Arthmoor]

I think it's probably more that people have moved on from the subject than anything.

[Conner]

You think they finally have? We've been going at it pretty strong in this thread (this is comment #478) for a little over a month now...

[Vorians]

The only thing I can think of that's ever been "against" him, is Elminster's version of KA. Even 'that' Elminster did it isn't against him. It's that Elminster 'said' "cleaned and fixed". If he said "made compatible with open/better cities" it wouldn't be "against him". (I was going to say he wouldn't have been offended, but...when your talking about people that are looking under the rocks looking for reasons to be offended....:shrug: )

But you're forgetting (or you're not aware) that Elminster did nothing wrong. It explicitly stated in the readme for KA (and all Giskard's mods at that time) that anyone was free to make any changes they wanted to Giskard's mods, and upload for others to use, without needing to ask Giskard's permission. Not implicit, but explicit permission granted, it can't be clearer than that. Plus if Elminster had stated that he'd made it compatible with open/better cities, that would have been a lie, since it wasn't, and no attempt was made to make it compatible with OC or BC or OBC. The only edits he made was to clean it and fix it, and thus this is how it was described. I cannot speak for Arthmoor/Samson (OC team) but for Ismelda and myself (BC team) we weren't even in communication with Elminster at this time, so OC/BC/OBC (probably OBC didn't actually even exist then) had absolutely nothing to do with it. And for the record, he doesn't look under rocks for reasons to be offended, he stares with great force at his rock, watching for movement! One day it'll move on its own, and he'll have discovered he has telekinesis.

Granted, it would've been better to consult with the author directly first since he was still clearly active, but...

See above

I think it's probably more that people have moved on from the subject than anything.

You move on, then it starts all over again. That's the cycle we all know from the past 2.5 years. The wonderful thing is that this time we finally were given a place to vocalise about it ourselves, so thanks again, Samson. There have been a few off-topic posts here, so not all 479 comments in this thread are about Giskard, Conner.

[Orisha]

I didn't know about Giskard giving explicit permission for people to edit his mods. I recall checking up his oldest posts on Beth forums when I had my first dealings with him and he came across as a nice modder that was very eager to work with and learn from others. So if permission was actually given to edit his files, that puts him in an even poorer light. BTW, anyone noticed that everyone on his "enemies list" are all mature and knowledgable about Oblivion modding? Seems he feels threatened by people whom he can't bully and how sees through his lies and prefer to associate with either adults who know little about how modded Oblivion and it's tools work (yet are not shy about giving advice on how Wrye Bash will ruin your game), and kids who swallow everything he says.

[Conner]

@Vorians: Yes, with the permissions that you'd stated before were in his original readmes Elminster didn't do anything wrong, but as a courtesy he could've, and perhaps should've, gotten approval from Giskard at the time. It still probably wouldn't have curtailed any of this, but it would've removed the closest thing Giskard has had all along as legitimacy in his allegations. No, not all 481 of these comments are about Giskard (Which I'm sure that comes are great consternation to his ego.) but the thread is that long in just over a month and doesn't appear to be dying off though it has slowed in pace significantly of late. @PetrusOctavianus: Unfortunately, that's the story we've all been lead to believe so his light has been pretty poor all along. So, you're saying that his issues may not be delusion, paranoia, or schizophrenic but merely incredible insecurity?

[Orisha]

Conner:

:lol: So, you're saying that his issues may not be delusion, paranoia, or schizophrenic but merely incredible insecurity? ;)

Hard to say, but it struck me that his oldest messages were in a very different tone from what he's been writing the past two years. And it seems he's the kind of person who needs to be the big fish in a small pond (who eats the other fish if they naysay him) rather than being a small fish in a big pond. I've also noticed that at his own "friendly" site he does not enforce the no mod bashing laws that he so advocated on Bethsoft and Nexus. Not as long as it's not his own mods, of course... So in his world it's cyberstalking to mention conflicts or problems with his mods, but calling the mods of other modders for crap is OK. So to sum up: 1 part Paranoia + 1 part Insecurity + 1 part Hypocrisy = Giskard.

[Conner]

I can't naysay any of that, but I can giggle about it. ;) :lol:

[IsmeldaLasombra]

Makes you wonder who would he prefers to play his character in the movie... Wait, there is no movie about this??? :whistle:

[Conner]

:lol: Would you really be willing to pay the outrageous ticket prices these days to go see it if there was one?

[IsmeldaLasombra]

There is always internet and torrent websites :) Would you pass a chance to piss off Giskard by ripping off his copyrights on the movie sale?

[Dallen68]

"Don't Move My Rock" Staring Phil McGraw as Giskard. Orson Wells as Conner, Kyle Maclaughlin as Vorians, Linsay Wagner as Ismelda, and Larry the Cable guy as Arthmoor! :lol:

[Orisha]

I'm always left out. :sad: Only Giskards mentione me, even though he never gets my name right.. May I suggest Rowan Atkinson as PetrusOctavianus?

[Dallen68]

I was thinking Simon Baker, but Rowan Atkinson it is!

[Orisha]

He he, I'm afraid that when I try to create a character to look like myself he ends up looking a lot more like Rowan Atkinson than Simon Baker.

[Vorians]

Yes, with the permissions that you'd stated before were in his original readmes Elminster didn't do anything wrong, but as a courtesy he could've, and perhaps should've, gotten approval from Giskard at the time. It still probably wouldn't have curtailed any of this, but it would've removed the closest thing Giskard has had all along as legitimacy in his allegations.

Giskard was already stirring trouble before Elminster released KA though. Elminster can be a bit too blunt at times, and was in the process of reporting to modders his findings with TES4Edit of dirty and wild edits. He really ought to have stuck to PMs but instead publicly posted that KA contained thousands of dirty edits (which it did/does) and that it broke some vanilla dialogue and scripts. Elminster's intent was to let authors know so that they could fix their mods, and many authors thanked him and did just that (probably with Elminster's assistance). However Giskard doesn't respond well to criticism (I know, that's quite a surprise, but it's true) and took the report as an attack, so started shouting and flaming Elminster. He claimed that Elminster had incorrectly pointed out errors which Giskard had fixed many versions ago - but he hadn't fixed them, he had overwritten vanilla scripts and dialogue for his own mod usage, then created new records duplicating the vanilla records from before he touched them. This may have gotten them working again, but technically that was a workaround, not a fix, and Elminster was correctly finding them, and TES4Edit could have correctly fixed them. Due to the way in which Giskard responded, Elminster saw no point in attempting further contact, and promptly ceased communication (though in Giskard's version of events, it was he who ceased communication after much flaming from Elminster). Because Giskard's readmes gave explicit permission to edit and reupload, Elminster did the obvious thing - he uploaded the fixed ESP. You see, Giskard had already burnt his bridges from the outset with Elminster, there was no chance of further communication, so there was no way Elminster could first seek approval - approval not needed anyway due to the explicit wording of the readme. Bridge-burners are by nature troll-attractors of course, due to the sudden lack of troll-homes. The flames may be pretty to the troll at first, but things soon change when he realises that the pretty has become a burnt pile of rubble which he can no longer hide under. So he brought the genuine trolls (I assume some must exist, they can't all be in his head) upon himself, troll-clubs swinging.

[Conner]

Hmm, should I be flattered or offended at the notion of having Orson Wells play my role? :lol: @Vorians: Interesting short version of the original post to this thread, especially the final analysis at the bottom. :lol:

[Vorians]

Well after 490 comments, it was time for a refresher of what we're all talking about. I was however specifically relating to Elminster since it was he who was being discussed in the latest comments, whereas the original post covered more than just Elminster.

[Hana]

"Don't Move My Rock" Staring Phil McGraw as Giskard. Orson Wells as Conner, Kyle Maclaughlin as Vorians, Linsay Wagner as Ismelda, and Larry the Cable guy as Arthmoor!

He he, I'm afraid that when I try to create a character to look like myself he ends up looking a lot more like Rowan Atkinson than Simon Baker.

ROFLMAO! Man, that's some mental picture.

So, you're saying that his issues may not be delusion, paranoia, or schizophrenic but merely incredible insecurity?

Aww, he just needs a hug.

[Orisha]

A hug, or a severe beating about the head and neck.