[RELz] LOOT - Load Order Optimisation Tool

[WrinklyNinja]

My advice would be to use the existing masterlist entries as examples (the reference goes into more detail than you'll probably need), and don't be afraid to send pull requests early and often. The review process is an excellent way to get and give feedback, and the worst I'll do is ask you to make changes or (rarely) explain why I think your submission isn't appropriate for inclusion in the masterlist.

Travis will catch syntax errors when you make a PR, and your changes can't affect anyone else until they're accepted, so it's low-risk. Most of Sharlikran's first paragraph won't apply to you, because you don't have write access to the official repositories.

Also, try to keep your commits/PRs focused, so you're not making unrelated changes in the same commit, for example, because that makes reviewing and making changes simpler.

 

[Beermotor]

Thanks for the pointers @Sharlikran , particularly the local masterlist idea.  I'll definitely stick to the xEdit dirty mod reports for the time being since I don't completely grok the priority system, at least not to the point of committing something to the public masterlist. I have some documentation to read first. 

[Beermotor]

2 hours ago, WrinklyNinja said:

My advice would be to use the existing masterlist entries as examples (the reference goes into more detail than you'll probably need), and don't be afraid to send pull requests early and often. The review process is an excellent way to get and give feedback, and the worst I'll do is ask you to make changes or (rarely) explain why I think your submission isn't appropriate for inclusion in the masterlist.

Travis will catch syntax errors when you make a PR, and your changes can't affect anyone else until they're accepted, so it's low-risk. Most of Sharlikran's first paragraph won't apply to you, because you don't have write access to the official repositories.

Also, try to keep your commits/PRs focused, so you're not making unrelated changes in the same commit, for example, because that makes reviewing and making changes simpler.

 

Thank you. I've learned over the years that one mass commits at everyone's peril.   

Also mad props for the fantastic and thorough documentation.  I've got a lot of reading to do before I start. 

[Sharlikran]

1 hour ago, Beermotor said:

Thanks for the pointers @Sharlikran , particularly the local masterlist idea.  I'll definitely stick to the xEdit dirty mod reports for the time being since I don't completely grok the priority system, at least not to the point of committing something to the public masterlist. I have some documentation to read first. 

The Global Priorities are here. Negative numbers are at the top, nothing or 0 in the middle, and positive numbers are at the bottom.

[alt3rn1ty]

12 hours ago, Sharlikran said:

The Global Priorities are here. Negative numbers are at the top, nothing or 0 in the middle, and positive numbers are at the bottom.

Is DynDOLOD noted as having the same global priority for Skyrim SE?

I am not at home so cant check, but for a while I have been setting DynDOLOD.esp to have a Load After condition, forcing it to load after the Bashed Patch. Things may have changed since I last reviewed that plugin setting but just thought I would ask seeing as SSE is not listed there .. And DynDOLOD is still beta for SSE (though a lot of people are already using it).

[Sharlikran]

9 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Is DynDOLOD noted as having the same global priority for Skyrim SE?

The file named DynDOLOD.esp, yes. That is what Beermotor was reporting.

[Beermotor]

I've made my first edit and created a pull request with a single entry to get my toes wet. Travis was still chewing on it when I switched over to post this. 

I did a bit of testing and made sure the CRC checking and ordering were as I wanted with both a clean and dirty copy of the plugin. I'm still slightly skittish about the process so any feedback is appreciated.

I did have a slight problem testing with my local metadata copy but i was able to work around it. Since this could be user error, I'll try again on my next edit attempt and if I'm still having trouble I'll ask about it.

[Beermotor]

I figured out the original issue I was having, which was that after reloading Windows my load orders for SSE were wildly different than what they were before the OS reload.

While I was scrolling through the metadata I saw that there was a metadata update that explained the load order I was seeing perfectly. Apparently my old LOOT install hadn't updated the masterfile in ages, and when I finally wiped and reloaded the OS I got the latest update. 

Given the myriad reasons I needed to wipe my OS, I seriously doubt this was LOOTs fault; on this fresh install it has updated the masterlist perfectly for the past 3 revisions. 

[Sharlikran]

You know what's odd though. There are a few things that Wrinkly mentioned shouldn't be needed. I can't remember but he may have even frowned upon this the last time I brought it up.  I just do it because it's what I have done for a while now when I have issues.  I don't have any userlist.yaml files so I wouldn't loose anything. However, anyone reading this don't blindly do this. I'm giving an example because I feel bad that Beermotor reinstalled his OS. I'm not sure I caught his message that he was going to do that. I would have suggested this.

1. Go to the C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Local\LOOT
2. Delete the settings.yaml, test LOOT
3. If you still have an issue with a specific game, while still in the C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Local\LOOT delete the game's masterlist folder, test LOOT

Wish I would have suggested that sooner, but I didn't notice you were going to reinstall Windows.

Now why might that matter you ask. Well oddly enough for Skyrim SE this doesn't apply because there is only a v0.10 folder. However, for other games there is a v0.10 masterlist, and a v0.7, and a v0.8, masterlist when Wrinkly changed the syntax. So if the effected game is still reading the v0.7 or the v0.8 masterlist then those are very old. You can check this under settings in LOOT but most users don't check that, at least I don't believe so. Also in the folder reserved for the specific game's masterlist is a small hidden folder named .git. It holds all sorts of files used by Git to manage what is happening with the files from the server. If those are not in sync that might cause the masterlist to be out of sync.

If I remember correctly Wrinly did mention he had routines that make it such that this shouldn't be needed.  Sorry you had to reinstall your OS, that's a pain to do.

[Beermotor]

@Sharlikran Oh no, don't feel bad - I didn't reload the OS because of LOOT.   

I had another issue most likely related to a Japanese language pack (so I could play poorly-translated Japanese games)  that was preventing me from upgrading to the latest slow-ring Insider build.  I decided I needed a clean start anyway, so I nuked my C drive. All of my tools and games were on my D through H drives so I came out relatively unscathed other than losing my "app data" and subdirectories.

 

[Vyxenne]

Hi, Wrinkly-

I'd like to report an issue and ask a question. Yes, all in one post! I'm such a multi-tasker, right?

Issue- the latest version of LOOT (0.11.0) crashes reliably on launch. It will not run, whether from its own desktop shortcut or from NMM's 'Supported Tools' dropdown. Previous versions run fine from either shortcut. System is Windows 7 x64 Home Premium/i5-3570K/16GB/GTX970 and I downloaded/installed the Installer version. Because I'm lazy and your Installer versions have always worked in the past. I have upgraded 3 times in the past couple of months, hoping each time that a runnable build has been published, and each time LOOT has crashed on launch with no error message. After each crash, I have downloaded the next-to-last version (installer version) from GitHub and installed that, which runs fine. Currently running LOOT 0.10.3 Build 0fc788b. Unknown how to even troubleshoot this.

Question: I have recently installed Sexlab Light SE. The author states that it must be sorted as the 6th plugin, which in SSE puts it between Dragonborn and USSEP. LOOT sorted it as the last Master, which in my installation is several masters too far down. The author says he will revise this position inflexibility "in a future update" but meanwhil;e I need to edit my LOOT metadata to tell it to load the Sexlab esm just before USSEP. At one time, LOOT had a "load before" option, but now all I can find is "Load After" which is ambiguous in this case because any position between 6th and 125th would satisfy that parameter. How can I tell LOOT metadata to place Sexlab.esm exactly between Dragonborn.esm and USSEP.esm withoiut a "sort before" option? In the past I would have set two criteria- sort before USSEP and sort after Dragonborn. But without a 'Sort Before' option (or a new option I've never seen which would be 'Place exactly at [hex load order number] position) I can't do that.

And before you ask, I already placed the plugin correctly, manually, that's not the issue- the issue is I want to be able to rely on LOOT to manage my load order again, and right now I can't.

Thanks, and hope all is going well with you. ❤

[alt3rn1ty]

I can answer your question reference the plugin position, click the Card Menu (right hand list) on Update.esm, Edit MetaData, choose Load After, then from the left list drag and drop sexlab into this card and it will be added into Update.esm's Load After List - So then Update.esm will Load After sexlab.esm (the sexlab mod does have an .esm right?, because if its an .esp this will not work due to esm's always load before all other plugins)

[Vyxenne]

1 hour ago, alt3rn1ty said:

I can answer your question reference the plugin position, click the Card Menu (right hand list) on Update.esm, Edit MetaData, choose Load After, then from the left list drag and drop sexlab into this card and it will be added into Update.esm's Load After List - So then Update.esm will Load After sexlab.esm (the sexlab mod does have an .esm right?, because if its an .esp this will not work due to esm's always load before all other plugins)

Thanks for the response. I misspoke in my OP above- the Master that Sexlab Light SE.esm needs to load before is not Update.esm, it is the Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch- USSEP. I have no idea why I did that since Update.esm always loads right after Skyrim.esm. I just edited my OP- no doubt I misidentified the esm due to acute Chardonnay withdrawals....

In my experience, the actual functtion of BOSS and/or LOOT's "Load After" instruction is "Load Anywhere After" as opposed to "Load Immediately After," thereby rendering it ambiguous for the express purpose of getting a plugin to load in a specified position - 6th position, in this case. So if I have, for example, 10 esm plugins, editing LOOT's Metadata to specify that USSEP.esm should "Load After" SexlabLightSE.esm could conceivably have USSEP.esm loading in any position from 7th through 10th, inclusive. In other words, it's ambiguous. At least, that's how it has worked for me in the past, although admittedly, my experience with editing BOSS and LOOT metadata has all been with esp plugins- I have never before tried to specify an explicit load order for esm's.

That said, I'll try your suggestion and let LOOT sort and re-sort my ~ 125 SSE plugins several times to see what it actually does in my installation- hopefully you are exactly right and I will have learned something new.  And yes, the Sexlab Light SE plugin is a Master (esm) file.

Thanks

[alt3rn1ty]

Ah in that case replace Update.esm with USSEP in my instructions, so Edit metadata of USSEP, choose its Load After tab, and drop sexlab in there. Then your Load Order becomes sexlab before USSEP

Yep if you have other esm's also after sexlab, you could edit their individual Load After data and get them to load after USSEP. And that would pin those together, USSEP following sexlab, all else following USSEP. There arent too many esm's out there though I dont think, and where there are no conflicts between other mods loading after a target mod, and the mod you wish to load later, wherever they all fall doesn't matter anyway no matter how 'ambiguously' placed. xEdit is good for determining if there are conflicts between mods if you want to be sure and not just follow generic advice.

Another way to approach it is using Priorities instead, but I find Load After and its drag n drop ease of use more convenient.

[WrinklyNinja]

7 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

...

In my experience, the actual functtion of BOSS and/or LOOT's "Load After" instruction is "Load Anywhere After" as opposed to "Load Immediately After," thereby rendering it ambiguous for the express purpose of getting a plugin to load in a specified position - 6th position, in this case.

...

That's correct, there's no way to tell LOOT to load a plugin in a particular absolute position, I've never heard of a plugin requiring that before. Having a "load before" option wouldn't be much help in this case as it still wouldn't be an absolute position. It's just not something LOOT can do, sorry.

 

[Vyxenne]

10 hours ago, WrinklyNinja said:

...

 I've never heard of a plugin requiring that before.

...

Thanks for your response. I had never heard of it before either, but it's for real- check the link to the mod page in my OP.

I ended up "telling" USSEP to "Load After" Sexlab Light SE, and LOOT did it perfectly. I think it only worked due to the high priority set for masters Skyrim, Update, Dawnguard, Dragonborn, Hearthfires and a lower priority for USSEP- LOOT was OK loading USSEP after a 3rd-party master, but it would not have been OK with loadiing a core-game DLC after a 3rd party plugin. So it only worked in this specific case.

And in the end, once I got it all working and tested it in-game for a few minutes, I ended up uninstalling Sexlab Light for various reasons.

Any ideas what I need to do to troubleshoot why I can't run LOOT 0.11.0?

[WrinklyNinja]

5 minutes ago, Vyxenne said:

...

Any ideas what I need to do to troubleshoot why I can't run LOOT 0.11.0?

Sorry, I somehow missed that bit of your post. Try the latest snapshot build, it's a weird issue that some people hit seemingly at random - I've had it happen during development, with one build working then a rebuild with no code changes not working, and I don't know the cause.

[Beermotor]

@Vyxenne Regarding SexLab Light, vinfamy released a new revision today that removes the hard requirement that it be in the 6th position.  I'm not entirely certain how this affects existing saves though,  so even with the upgrade you may want to stick with the esm being in the 6th slot.

(btw @Arthmoor if that link is against the rules let me know and I'll remove it.)

 

[Arthmoor]

I'd really be curious to know just what he thought was so important that it MUST be in the 6th slot and nowhere else. That really doesn't make a lot of sense.

Linking to it is fine so long as it doesn't bypass their agegate.

[Vyxenne]

22 hours ago, Beermotor said:

@Vyxenne Regarding SexLab Light, vinfamy released a new revision today that removes the hard requirement that it be in the 6th position.  I'm not entirely certain how this affects existing saves though,  so even with the upgrade you may want to stick with the esm being in the 6th slot.

Thanks for the heads up, but I removed Sexlab after trying 8-10 animations. BDSM, choking, absurd spine-breaking positions, rough and/or forcible sex (etc.) are just not my cup of tea and without exception, every animation was about one or more of those situations. Fortunately, I had made a safety-save just before installing it, so after uninstalling everything I simply reverted to it and deleted the SL-infested saves. Again, thanks for the heads up, but it's not an issue for me any more.

[Sclerocephalus]

7 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

I'd really be curious to know just what he thought was so important that it MUST be in the 6th slot and nowhere else. That really doesn't make a lot of sense.

Linking to it is fine so long as it doesn't bypass their agegate.

The only reason I can imagine is a script that tries to get a form from the master via a GetFormFromFile command.

[Arthmoor]

Yes, but that command is immune to load order index.

[aragonit]

I just cleaned a mod and I haven't seen it before on the modlist:

 

LOOT Masterlist Entry
  - name: 'Bob The Merchant.esp'
    dirty:
      - crc: 0x540c5d3d
        util: *dirtyUtil
        itm: 77
        udr: 436

BOSS Masterlist Entry
Bob The Merchant.esp
  IF CHECKSUM("Bob The Merchant.esp", 540C5D3D) DIRTY: 77 ITM, 436 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning: "http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php?title=TES4Edit_Cleaning_Guide"

[WrinklyNinja]

29 minutes ago, aragonit said:

I just cleaned a mod and I haven't seen it before on the modlist:

 

LOOT Masterlist Entry
  - name: 'Bob The Merchant.esp'
    dirty:
      - crc: 0x540c5d3d
        util: *dirtyUtil
        itm: 77
        udr: 436

BOSS Masterlist Entry
Bob The Merchant.esp
  IF CHECKSUM("Bob The Merchant.esp", 540C5D3D) DIRTY: 77 ITM, 436 UDR records. Needs TES5Edit cleaning: "http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php?title=TES4Edit_Cleaning_Guide"

What game is that for?

[Leonardo]

I think it's a mod for Oblivion and the Bob The Merchant.esp belongs to either FCOM or OOO since one of these overhaul mods or both mods has a Bob Armory.esp IIRC.