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[RELz] Mertz's WizBAIN thread


Beermotor
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On 8/22/2017 at 1:08 AM, Beermotor said:

~ Brumbek released a SSE optimized version of SMIM packed into a BSA, but there are a few problems with the archive. EDIT: I PM'ed him to let him know.

I think his PMs are full and not being cleared, he just acknowledged a public post a day later by Ousnius on the same problem.

Well at least he got the message eventually anyway.

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17 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

I think his PMs are full and not being cleared, he just acknowledged a public post a day later by Ousnius on the same problem.

Well at least he got the message eventually anyway.

Ah that makes sense. I didn't think about that being a possibility. I also think Brumbek needs a bit of time to get his sea-legs again. A lot has changed since he originally retired.

 

Back on the Wizard front, after digging through long forgotten tomes of ancient Wrye Bash wizard knowledge, I got an idea (ok I'm stealing a technique) to set flags differently than I did previously, which in turn should enable me to get the XPMSSE installer finished.

Also I started on a BAIN wizard for the new FO4 CBBE (the one with dismemberment) that I'm using the same method with. I hope to have that one finished sooner than later also. 

 

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When you had a look at Brumbeks Optimised BSA version, did you notice if he had put in the Dwemer Lift (which has its animation fixed by passing it through SSE Nif Optimiser)

 

Edit : Asking on nexus if the latest includes them, see if it gets an answer, if not I'm not going to bother him anymore.

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2 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

When you had a look at Brumbeks Optimised BSA version, did you notice if he had put in the Dwemer Lift (which has its animation fixed by passing it through SSE Nif Optimiser)

 

Edit : Asking on nexus if the latest includes them, see if it gets an answer, if not I'm not going to bother him anymore.

I did have a look at the updated BSA last night and checked, but no the animated dwemer lifts were not included in the optimized mesh BSA. 

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4 minutes ago, Easykiln said:
I can't find a clear explanation on what the difference between fomod and bain is, can someone direct/assist me? I want to know which is better for me to make.

I use MO so I can use both and never really paid much attention before.

FOMod is a more complex mod installation script/method that doesn't really require a specific file structure and it's fairly straightforward to create a fully-working one. It was originally a feature in Fallout Mod Manager, and was integrated into NMM.

BAIN is more difficult to write a script for and requires a specific structure, unless you write a BCF to convert the structure to one the Bash can read. It was largely used for Oblivion mods alongside OMODs before NMM was released. After NMM, it was largely phased out in favor of FOMods, which, like I said before, can handle complex structures. Only Wrye Bash can handle BAIN wizards right now. It's also the only installation script Bash can handle, but I expect at some point it'll be able to read FOMods as well with the Fall/Autumn Creator's Update reportedly breaking Mod Organizer's VFS functionality (and NMM is a piece of crap in its current state).

If anyone else has a better explanation, please post it. I don't really know anything technical about either one.

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5 minutes ago, Pabulum said:

FOMod is a more complex mod installation script/method that doesn't really require a specific file structure and it's fairly straightforward to create a fully-working one. It was originally a feature in Fallout Mod Manager, and was integrated into NMM.

BAIN is more difficult to write a script for and requires a specific structure, unless you write a BCF to convert the structure to one the Bash can read. It was largely used for Oblivion mods alongside OMODs before NMM was released. After NMM, it was largely phased out in favor of FOMods, which, like I said before, can handle complex structures. Only Wrye Bash can handle BAIN wizards right now. It's also the only installation script Bash can handle, but I expect at some point it'll be able to read FOMods as well with the Fall/Autumn Creator's Update reportedly breaking Mod Organizer's VFS functionality (and NMM is a piece of crap in its current state).

If anyone else has a better explanation, please post it. I don't really know anything technical about either one.

That's pretty much spot-on, but i would say that BAIN wizards have the advantage of being able to detect if a mod is active, inactive, ghosted, or merged into a Bashed Patch.  This allows the installer to detect mods that have been merged into a Bashed Patch and ghosted, something FOMOD installers can't do.

Wizards also have the ability to edit INI files on the fly from within the installer;  for example, in an unreleased UI mod I've been working on a wizard for, the user can select their screen size and resolution from within the installer.  FOMOD installers cannot do this, so the end-user usually has to manually edit their INI files.

Lastly, and this is a non-issue but it annoys me: FOMODS also tend to be gigantic and extraordinarily verbose. For example the SMIM FOMOD is 5433 lines, but the SMIM BAIN wizard can get the mod installed in 746.

FOMOD has the advantage in that mod authors that don't know much about installers or scripting can write a FOMOD using a program. The drawback to this is we end up with shitty, horribly structured mods that can only be installed in NMM.  There's a vat of boiling piss in Hell for people that do this.

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As promised, I've added two new BAIN wizards for CBBE for Fallout 4.

This is using a new technique I am planning on trying with the XPMSS for SSE installer later this week (hopefully). Please let me know if you encounter anything weird.

Also these two wizards are identical except for the Reduced version has the word "reduced"  here and there. If you download one of them you can technically use it for either version.

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Heads up another SMIM 2.06 relz, and the SSE and LE versions are now crafted for the intended game not including files of the other game. Check out the changes tab, there has been a lot of work in these, with possibly more to come (but hopefully the package structure will remain consistent)

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10 hours ago, Beermotor said:

As promised, I've added two new BAIN wizards for CBBE for Fallout 4.

This is using a new technique I am planning on trying with the XPMSS for SSE installer later this week (hopefully). Please let me know if you encounter anything weird.

Also these two wizards are identical except for the Reduced version has the word "reduced"  here and there. If you download one of them you can technically use it for either version.

 

Found a wee bijout snagget - When asking the user for the Nude / Nevernude choice, the descriptive text for them are the wrong way around ..

Nude "This will replace the Nude body with underwear that uses the vanilla textures. To stay nude, dont select this!"

NeverNude "Continue with the default Nude body"

Choosing Nude does actually install the nude setup, and vice-versa, its just the descriptive text is wrong.

 

Also by default you are auto-selecting bodyslide files (sub-packages 18/19/20/21) .. For those of us who dont use bodyslide thats just redundant files going into data unnecessarily 

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2 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Heads up another SMIM 2.06 relz, and the SSE and LE versions are now crafted for the intended game not including files of the other game. Check out the changes tab, there has been a lot of work in these, with possibly more to come (but hopefully the package structure will remain consistent)

Yep I actually talked to him about it in a PM yesterday. :)

For now I'm going to go ahead with writing separate wizards while he does releases, mainly so I don't hold him up (my suggestion) from releasing at whatever rate he can churn out new content.

I'm at work now and may be able to get some free time in a bit (I'm on a Mac at the moment) but it may have to wait until I get home this afternoon at ~4PM CDT. 

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1 hour ago, alt3rn1ty said:

 

Found a wee bijout snagget - When asking the user for the Nude / Nevernude choice, the descriptive text for them are the wrong way around ..

Nude "This will replace the Nude body with underwear that uses the vanilla textures. To stay nude, dont select this!"

NeverNude "Continue with the default Nude body"

Choosing Nude does actually install the nude setup, and vice-versa, its just the descriptive text is wrong.

 

Also by default you are auto-selecting bodyslide files (sub-packages 18/19/20/21) .. For those of us who dont use bodyslide thats just redundant files going into data unnecessarily 

 

Ok I fixed the nude/nevernude cosmetic thing. I apparently didn't copy the descriptions when I swapped positions on them. Long story. :P

I'm looking into the Bodyslide thing. I'll be back shortly. 

EDIT: ok I figured out the Bodyslide thing: The FOMOD installs BodySlide stuff automatically along with the armors/clothing when selected.  

            <pattern>
                <dependencies>
                    <flagDependency flag="bVanillaOutfits" value="On"/>
                    <flagDependency flag="bSlim" value="On"/>
                </dependencies>
                <files>
                    <folder source="06 Outfits Slim - Vanilla" destination=""/>
                    <folder source="18 Outfits BodySlide - Vanilla" destination=""/>
                </files>
            </pattern>

If you'd like I could add another checkbox (I have the armor on flags so it hypothetically should be a piece of cake to add another flag like I have for the F4EE Morphs) to untick if you don't want Bodyslide stuff. 

If you need help deciding, the "00 Required" package also installs BodySlide stuff but it cannot be de-selected. 

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27 minutes ago, Beermotor said:

Yep I actually talked to him about it in a PM yesterday. :)

For now I'm going to go ahead with writing separate wizards while he does releases, mainly so I don't hold him up (my suggestion) from releasing at whatever rate he can churn out new content.

I'm at work now and may be able to get some free time in a bit (I'm on a Mac at the moment) but it may have to wait until I get home this afternoon at ~4PM CDT. 

@alt3rn1ty Looking at the release notes, it looks like Brumbek has made a lot of changes for SSE, so I'll definitely have to have my tools at home. They look like very welcome changes though, so I'm looking forward to combing through everything. :)

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3 hours ago, Beermotor said:

Ok I fixed the nude/nevernude cosmetic thing. I apparently didn't copy the descriptions when I swapped positions on them. Long story. :P

I'm looking into the Bodyslide thing. I'll be back shortly. 

EDIT: ok I figured out the Bodyslide thing: The FOMOD installs BodySlide stuff automatically along with the armors/clothing when selected.  


            <pattern>
                <dependencies>
                    <flagDependency flag="bVanillaOutfits" value="On"/>
                    <flagDependency flag="bSlim" value="On"/>
                </dependencies>
                <files>
                    <folder source="06 Outfits Slim - Vanilla" destination=""/>
                    <folder source="18 Outfits BodySlide - Vanilla" destination=""/>
                </files>
            </pattern>

If you'd like I could add another checkbox (I have the armor on flags so it hypothetically should be a piece of cake to add another flag like I have for the F4EE Morphs) to untick if you don't want Bodyslide stuff. 

If you need help deciding, the "00 Required" package also installs BodySlide stuff but it cannot be de-selected. 

An extra flag would be good to untick

And yep I delete the unrequired extras from 00 Required files when adding your wizard, though for anyone else that does make things a bit awkward.

Hmm, possibly a BCF approach to do all the usual and move the files out of 00 Required into a new sub-package that can also be unticked ? (I dont think they are necessary at all if you are not using bodyslide)

But then can you also BCF in any necessary changes to FOMod scripting ?

.. And is it going to be worth the bother, there's probably only going to be a handful of people will want to do the same as me, eradicating unecessary bodyslide files from Data, and thats only if they become aware of the redundant files.

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3 hours ago, Easykiln said:

Thanks for the info! FOMOD it is.

There is also a comparison of functions in the Wrye Bash technical readme http://wrye-bash.github.io/docs/Wrye Bash Technical Readme.html#wizards-obmm

But if you are just using MO, its implementation of using wizards is not without bugs, and was never really given much testing by its author, who has now abandoned supporting MO. Long term .. You are better off doing the same imho, but thats your choice. BAIN Wizards are a lot easier to program than FOMods I find.

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Just now, alt3rn1ty said:

There is also a comparison of functions in the Wrye Bash technical readme http://wrye-bash.github.io/docs/Wrye Bash Technical Readme.html#wizards-obmm

But if you are just using MO, its implementation of using wizards is not without bugs, and was never really given much testing by its author, who has now abandoned supporting MO. Long term .. You are better off doing the same imho, but thats your choice.

I'll switch to Vortex when it comes out, but I honestly have more fun fucking around with mods than actually playing the game, so MO's flexibility in not having to keep track of install order and such is appreciated, even if it comes at the cost of a little stability. Honestly my game is more stable for using MO because it doesn't punish me for the poor practices my constant shuffling begets, and MO isn't too bad if you are committed enough to mostly know what you're doing.

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6 hours ago, Beermotor said:

@alt3rn1ty Looking at the release notes, it looks like Brumbek has made a lot of changes for SSE, so I'll definitely have to have my tools at home. They look like very welcome changes though, so I'm looking forward to combing through everything. :)

Yep, glad he finally got you in PMs too. I thought he was going to miss your input for a while there.

Edit : Looking at the comments since 2.06 - I think there may well be a 2.07, another mistake made with the new jail cell doors in 2.06 by the looks of it.

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7 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Yep, glad he finally got you in PMs too. I thought he was going to miss your input for a while there.

Edit : Looking at the comments since 2.06 - I think there may well be a 2.07, another mistake made with the new jail cell doors in 2.06 by the looks of it.

I think that would be 2.06-1 which was released tonight. I'm actually just now getting home because I remembered I told my daughter I'd take her to the mall. :)

 

Quote

 

Version 2.06.1

-Critical fix for the new SMIM collision on the two Imperial Jail door meshes. They were not rendering and blocking player movement because I totally forget to make sure the new collision blocks were targeting the proper blocks in the meshes. I thought it would do this automatically...the unfortunate trials of working with a mostly undocumented file format. So after a short nervous breakdown screaming fit, I've finally ACTUALLY fixed the issue. Much apologies friends!

 

Mostly there were no other changes other than renaming some folders to add the "SE" to the end of them which I think is more for his internal tracking purposes. Dwemer Lifts are back in!

In addition to these small things, there is one big thing (at least from a BAIN wizard standpoint) in that he added two more plugins to the mix: one for No Solutude Ropes, and another that is a merge of "No Riften Ropes" and "No Solutude Ropes" which means I need to re-do the logic in the wizard, which is kind of the hardest part.

The bad news is this will take some time to work this out. Not too long, but I'm going to have to comb over the 5762 line FOMOD and figure out where Brumbek is using these plugins and when (easier than it sounds).

The good news is I have a new technique, the same one I used in the CBBE wizard, that I can bolt into this wizard for a far more pleasing (to me) end-result. Given I wrote the bulk of the SMIM 2.04 wizard back in June this gives me a chance to go back and refactor the wizard and make it more future-proof.

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1 hour ago, alt3rn1ty said:

I havent looked at it yet but have the new plugins been merged into the all-in-one aswell? (should be noted in the plugin description box if they have)

No, it looks like he just created a new plugin "SMIM-SE-Merged-NoRiftenRopes-NoSolitudeRopes.esp" instead. It is a lot simpler than it sounds now that I'm looking at it.

Also he left a super-helpful easter egg in the header of the FOMOD XML that will help me tremendously in doing the update:

 

<!-- Use the following SEARCH PHRASES to quickly navigate the sections of this installer. -->

<!-- 111 SPECIAL EDITION INSTALL PACKAGES -->

<!-- 222 DEFINED .ESP FLAGS SE -->

<!-- 555 CUSTOM CUSTOM CUSTOM SE -->

<!-- 777 COMPLEX MERGED .ESP FLAGS -->

<!-- 888 TRICKY SINGLE .ESP FLAGS -->

I'd like to think he put that there to help me. :)

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