[RELz] Mertz's WizBAIN thread

[AndalayBay]

A request if I may: a BAIN wizard for Paper World Map Addons. This one is annoying because the 02 Maps folder won't show up in WB despite having the Extra Directories option selected, so a wizard would be nice. The author is actively updating the mod as new mods are released, which is nice to see. Thank you!

[Leonardo]

1 hour ago, AndalayBay said:

A request if I may: a BAIN wizard for Paper World Map Addons. This one is annoying because the 02 Maps folder won't show up in WB despite having the Extra Directories option selected, so a wizard would be nice. The author is actively updating the mod as new mods are released, which is nice to see. Thank you!

The 02 Maps folder aren't detected by WB?  That was news to me since I can't play SSE without that map mod.

 

EDIT:  Just checked.  Are you talking about IcePenguin's A Quality World Map mod?  If you are then maybe you forgot to download another archive since the mod, as far I can tell, is divided into a couple of separate mod archives.

[alt3rn1ty]

Hi AB - I just made a post for attention of the author, seeing as he is active he may well entertain a slight change to the structure of the package (if he does not wish to do it then this mod would need a BCF to easily convert it) :

Quote

Hi DuncanLarson1

May I make a request : The structure of your zip could easily be made to work with Wrye Bash too.

Currently you have the following in the root of the archive
00 Core
01 Enhancer

Those two folders are recognised as sub-packages by Wrye Bash. The problem is the 03 Maps folder .. Inside there you have further sub-package folders which for Wrye Bash recognition purposes are one folder too deep.

If you were to rearrange the whole package like the following, people would be able to also choose map sub-packages too in Wrye Bash ..

Screenshot 1

Screenshot 2

See also Wrye Bash documentation about making packages Wrye Bash friendly ( Its easy if you just think of each sub-package as a data folder, in which you would ordinarily find the games files and folders, but uniquely named folders are not allowed in them - See this part of the docs )

 

[Beermotor]

@AndalayBay if the mod author isn't interested in @alt3rn1ty's assistance, I'll see if I can create a BCF for you to get the mod restructured.

My approach to non-standard packages like this is a bit different because I consider simple and complex BAIN to be a modding community standard that has been in place for at least as long as BAIN has existed (8 to 10 years?).  The solution to cleaning up this morass of arbitrary garbage is education.

Here's another selling point for BAIN - packaging your mod in a standard complex BAIN makes writing a FOMOD super-easy. You can lay out the structure as the installation flow is supposed to go, then write the installer around it. Once you start writing/machine writing the FOMOD it just clicks into place like magic.  Anyone that keeps doing it the wrong way after being aware of this has earns my contempt because I cannot stand willful ignorance or laziness.

Then again if education doesn't work, public shaming might.

 

[Beermotor]

14 hours ago, AndalayBay said:

A request if I may: a BAIN wizard for Paper World Map Addons. This one is annoying because the 02 Maps folder won't show up in WB despite having the Extra Directories option selected, so a wizard would be nice. The author is actively updating the mod as new mods are released, which is nice to see. Thank you!

Your wish is my command @AndalayBay

Since the mod author apparently hasn't taken @alt3rn1ty up on his generous offer yet, I've created a BCF for Paper World Map for Skyrim LE 1.2.2.  I also wrote a wizard for the restructured mod in case the repack is accepted.  I'll upload both to the OP.

For now, download the BCF and place it in your "bash installers\bain converters" folder and apply the conversion directly to the regular mod package. I'm sure you're familiar with the drill.

[Beermotor]

@alt3rn1ty

I'm getting there with the LeanWolf's Better Weapons Wizard. It's slow going because this thing is probably more complicated than SMIM TBH.  I did make a ton of progress though.

[alt3rn1ty]

Yeah I looked at it a bit closer since suggesting it and kind of regretted suggesting it, 'tis a bit of a beast.

Glad you are still making good progress with it though, hopefully its more of a good challenge than it is a chore.

[TechAngel85]

On 8/24/2017 at 5:55 PM, Beermotor said:

That's pretty much spot-on, but i would say that BAIN wizards have the advantage of being able to detect if a mod is active, inactive, ghosted, or merged into a Bashed Patch.  This allows the installer to detect mods that have been merged into a Bashed Patch and ghosted, something FOMOD installers can't do.

Lastly, and this is a non-issue but it annoys me: FOMODS also tend to be gigantic and extraordinarily verbose. For example the SMIM FOMOD is 5433 lines, but the SMIM BAIN wizard can get the mod installed in 746.

FOMOD has the advantage in that mod authors that don't know much about installers or scripting can write a FOMOD using a program. The drawback to this is we end up with shitty, horribly structured mods that can only be installed in NMM.  There's a vat of boiling piss in Hell for people that do this.

FOMODs can detect active, inactive, and missing plugins though not merged ones. I was working without the guy developing the FOMOD installer for MO on getting this done, but iTannin moved on to MO2 and it never got done.

FOMODs are just XML. It's super easy to learn so users shouldn't be using a program to create them. Once you have the base structure down it's simple enough to copy, paste, and change a few lines to create the next section. I can usually write a FOMOD from scratch faster than I can a Wizard, even if the FOMOD is twice as many lines.

On 8/26/2017 at 1:04 PM, Brumbek said:

So this probably isn't the right place to ask this...but users are all reporting 2.06.1 of the ORIGINAL Skyrim SMIM won't install any .esp files when using Mod Organizer...they claim something broke between 2.05 and 2.06.1. I did clean up the installer script...but nothing functionally changed. Anyway, I don't use Mod Organizer...if anybody has any insight, please do let me know...I just don't want to take the time to debug what works fine in NMM...thanks!

PS: I've discovered what is wrong with the 2.06.1 SE optimized Ruins Clutter meshes. The NiBillboardNode children names are not unique, which then crashes the game. I'm working with ousnius to program a way to solve this with the optimizer. For now, I can just rename the NiBillboardNode children nodes to use unique string names.

Also, if anyone has other suggestions or improvements to SMIM itself or the organization and installation of it, please feel free to post or PM me with suggestions. Thanks.

If you're still getting reports, hit me up. I'll look into it.

[AndalayBay]

@alt3rn1ty, @Beermotor, thanks guys. To be honest, I had forgotten the real reason the maps weren't being found. Then I figured releasing something to fix the package would help everyone.

[Leonardo]

23 hours ago, Beermotor said:

My approach to non-standard packages like this is a bit different because I consider simple and complex BAIN to be a modding community standard that has been in place for at least as long as BAIN has existed (8 to 10 years?). 

I agree, I've a similar approach about using BAIN in Wrye Mash, so more than 5 years ago I created a template for a BAIN archive for anyone to use it in Wrye Mash.  Note the file structure is for Morrowind, but can easily be changed to later games.

 

Many mods in the Morrowind modding community are packed like this and Wrye Mash cannot install mods like that, hence all questions modders get when a mod user is having a problem to install a mod.

[Beermotor]

9 hours ago, TechAngel85 said:

FOMODs can detect active, inactive, and missing plugins though not merged ones. I was working without the guy developing the FOMOD installer for MO on getting this done, but iTannin moved on to MO2 and it never got done.

FOMODs are just XML. It's super easy to learn so users shouldn't be using a program to create them. Once you have the base structure down it's simple enough to copy, paste, and change a few lines to create the next section. I can usually write a FOMOD from scratch faster than I can a Wizard, even if the FOMOD is twice as many lines.

Yeah I was fairly terse in my post, my apologies if I sounded like I was insinuating FOMOD itself caused this, because it totally sounded like that's what I was saying didn't it?  

In reality it is a combination of A.) ignorance of how to properly structure mods, and B.) the FOMOD-creation apps not offering any kind of guidance or assistance whatsoever in helping authors structure their mods correctly for universal compatibility. You can't blame the metadata format for that; it is purely a human failing.

FOMODs are actually easier to create if you have an existing BAIN structure in place, so I don't understand why these knuckleheads keep releasing mods with shit stuffed all over the place. The only explanation is they don't know about the BAIN standard, and if they do, they're just too lazy to use it (which is exceptionally lazy).  

I abhor laziness. 

 

5 hours ago, AndalayBay said:

@alt3rn1ty, @Beermotor, thanks guys. To be honest, I had forgotten the real reason the maps weren't being found. Then I figured releasing something to fix the package would help everyone.

My pleasure and hopefully the mod author sorts the structure problem out. I think this is a case of the author kind of understood BAIN and made a valiant attempt. That's why we wanted to help him. 

 

1 hour ago, Leonardo said:

I agree, I've a similar approach about using BAIN in Wrye Mash, so more than 5 years ago I created a template for a BAIN archive for anyone to use it in Wrye Mash.  Note the file structure is for Morrowind, but can easily be changed to later games.

 

Many mods in the Morrowind modding community are packed like this and Wrye Mash cannot install mods like that, hence all questions modders get when a mod user is having a problem to install a mod.

Wow that's terrible. If Wrye Mash cannot install them, what can? 

[Beermotor]

11 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Yeah I looked at it a bit closer since suggesting it and kind of regretted suggesting it, 'tis a bit of a beast.

Glad you are still making good progress with it though, hopefully its more of a good challenge than it is a chore.

No worries, once I got started I flew through it.  The only reason I didn't finish it last night was I ran out of time and I was drinking some $15 a slab swill from the corner store because I ran out of Belgian Well Water.

[Leonardo]

46 minutes ago, Beermotor said:

Wow that's terrible. If Wrye Mash cannot install them, what can? 

I assume you mean the link to GHF I posted, just to demostrate how a lot of mods are packed and still is for relative new mods (even some mods for Oblivion and SLE are packed in the same way, which makes it almost impossible to install without having a single issue outside of WB).  However, in the early years of Morrowind modding there existed a method called " just extract a mod then activate the plugin and play" installation process.

 

Which many people still use today and I think that needs to be changed, but the Morrowind modding community has always been a bit conversative about adopting new methods and I know Wrye himself had to deal with that, if I understood Psymon correctly.

 

And that was one reason why Wrye simple retired from modding back in May 2009 IIRC.  You probably need to dig really deep in the depth of the old Bethesda forum to find anything related to how it was back in 2008 to 2010 in the Morrowind modding community.

[Beermotor]

@alt3rn1ty

I've completed a wizard for Leanwolf's Better Shaped Weapons for SSE. I've gone through it several times but I need another set of eyes to help me test it. I'll PM you a copy shortly.

[Beermotor]

Added Legacy of the Dragonborn SSE Compatibility Patches wizard. This is for the compatibility patch installer available for the main mod. You need this if you are using CRF or Open Cities with LoD.

[Beermotor]

10 hours ago, Leonardo said:

And that was one reason why Wrye simple retired from modding back in May 2009 IIRC.  You probably need to dig really deep in the depth of the old Bethesda forum to find anything related to how it was back in 2008 to 2010 in the Morrowind modding community.

I can only imagine how frustrating that had to be. People are very resistant to change, even if it benefits them. Fortunately it caught on and we have a standardized format now.

[Leonardo]

20 minutes ago, Beermotor said:

I can only imagine how frustrating that had to be. People are very resistant to change, even if it benefits them. Fortunately it caught on and we have a standardized format now.

Imaging is one thing, but spending some time in the Morrowind modding community is a different story I can tell you that much.  You bet the people are at least some veteran mod users.  AFAIK that only applies for Oblivion and Skyrim, but not for Morrowind.

 

That reminds me about a thread I started here a couple of years ago and I think it's time to resurrect that thread.  We can contiue there instead of cluttering this thread, even if it is the same subject.

[monkeyangie]

hello i have a question i hope you guys can help me, every time i try to add a BCF to a file i get a similar error in WB, this ine was with RS Children:

 

Spoiler

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bash\balt.pyo", line 2435, in __Execute
  File "bash\balt.pyo", line 1563, in _conversation_wrapper
  File "bash\basher\installer_links.pyo", line 1094, in Execute
  File "bash\bosh\__init__.pyo", line 5754, in apply_converter
  File "bash\bosh\converters.pyo", line 356, in apply
  File "bash\bosh\converters.pyo", line 594, in _unpack
  File "bash\bosh\converters.pyo", line 573, in _unpack
  File "bash\bolt.pyo", line 776, in crc
  File "bash\bolt.pyo", line 718, in size
  File "genericpath.pyo", line 57, in getsize
WindowsError: [Error 123] El nombre de archivo, el nombre de directorio o la sintaxis de la etiqueta del volumen no son correctos: u'c:\\users\\monkey~1\\appdata\\local\\temp\\WryeBash_dh5hfb\\02FAF802\\archive: D:\\SteamLibrary\\steamapps\\common\\Skyrim Special Edition Mods\\Bash Installers\\RSSE Children Overhaul 1.0.3-2650-1-0-3.7z'
 

it basically says that the tag name of the volume is not correct or that the file name is not correct, which im not sure how to fix, because the names of files are the original names, could it be because the names are too long? or maybe the directory is too long?, im just guessing here since coding and programming are definitely not my thing

the wizard.txt files all work flawless, thank you

 

[Beermotor]

9 hours ago, monkeyangie said:

hello i have a question i hope you guys can help me, every time i try to add a BCF to a file i get a similar error in WB, this ine was with RS Children:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bash\balt.pyo", line 2435, in __Execute
  File "bash\balt.pyo", line 1563, in _conversation_wrapper
  File "bash\basher\installer_links.pyo", line 1094, in Execute
  File "bash\bosh\__init__.pyo", line 5754, in apply_converter
  File "bash\bosh\converters.pyo", line 356, in apply
  File "bash\bosh\converters.pyo", line 594, in _unpack
  File "bash\bosh\converters.pyo", line 573, in _unpack
  File "bash\bolt.pyo", line 776, in crc
  File "bash\bolt.pyo", line 718, in size
  File "genericpath.pyo", line 57, in getsize
WindowsError: [Error 123] El nombre de archivo, el nombre de directorio o la sintaxis de la etiqueta del volumen no son correctos: u'c:\\users\\monkey~1\\appdata\\local\\temp\\WryeBash_dh5hfb\\02FAF802\\archive: D:\\SteamLibrary\\steamapps\\common\\Skyrim Special Edition Mods\\Bash Installers\\RSSE Children Overhaul 1.0.3-2650-1-0-3.7z'
 

it basically says that the tag name of the volume is not correct or that the file name is not correct, which im not sure how to fix, because the names of files are the original names, could it be because the names are too long? or maybe the directory is too long?, im just guessing here since coding and programming are definitely not my thing

the wizard.txt files all work flawless, thank you

 

That looks like an error I've encountered before myself with a different mod, but we will probably need a bit more information to help you.

Are you using one of the newest builds of Wrye Bash (one of the WIP builds for example)?

How were you trying to use the BCF? Did you place it in your "Bash Installers\BAIN Converters" folder or did you try to install it like a regular mod? 

Has RS Children been updated since the file date on the BCF file?  

That information can help us a great deal and we can go from there. I'll keep an eye out for your reply. 

[alt3rn1ty]

12 hours ago, Beermotor said:

@alt3rn1ty

I've completed a wizard for Leanwolf's Better Shaped Weapons for SSE. I've gone through it several times but I need another set of eyes to help me test it. I'll PM you a copy shortly.

Have a look at your "Welcome" message

First run through has selected everything I wanted, and sub-packages not relevant for my setup are deselected, and the wizard runs to completion without errors - Will be testing some more today but its looking good 

[Beermotor]

1 hour ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Have a look at your "Welcome" message

I can only imagine. I have a "skeleton" wizard that I use as a foundation for new wizards when I start them, so I can only imagine what kind of placeholder silliness made it through.

Edit: Oh ok I see what you're talking about.  Yeah that's not in my skeleton, that's from the original wizard attempt. Thank you for finding that.

[alt3rn1ty]

I think I have found a minor issue, the NGS options ..

Going through the options pages I will list what I chose per page:

Ticked NO Greatsword Sheaths
Chose Install Everything
On the Patches page I additionally chose Dawnbreaker options
More Quivers - Left them all ticked
Chillrend I kept the default option selected
Dawnbreaker chose Elven shaped ENB
Dragonboring kept default
Dragonboring quiver again kept at default
Auriel quivers kept at default
Normal stalhrim
Stalhrim quiver
Nordic weapons both remain ticked

I dont have Dual Sheath Redux (in fact I dont think anyone does for SSE yet), so none of those were selected to install, but ..

Everything installs fine apart from the NGS (NO Greatsword Sheaths - Vanilla style) sub-packages 201-221 do not get selected along with the normal corresponding selections

 

[alt3rn1ty]

Same applies for the custom route through the wizard, instead of choosing the Install Everything

I had selected the NO Greatsword Sheaths option, then custom, and made a few changes along the way like having a few Refraction choices instead of defaults .. all of the changes to my previous selections were correctly applied but ..

Again none of the NGS sub-packages get selected

[alt3rn1ty]

One final thing that stands out, but may not be an issue (I haven't checked out the contents of the sub-packages yet) ..

Its a minor thing though :

When choosing Refraction options for a particular weapon, the base sub-package remains selected aswell as the refraction sub-package

This is fine because the latter overwrites the former in all cases, and if the base sub-package is still needed because the refraction sub-package just overwrites say a couple of the base sub-package files then it needs to be this way so that works too ..

 

The thing is, the Stalhrim weapon set breaks from this behaviour, it does not consistently keep the base sub-package selected like the others do, it may not be an issue but eagle eyed people used to manually selecting sub-packages may also ask why the difference in selection behaviour.

The generally accepted norm of same numbered sub-packages with a different name added on are usually an either / or selection of these options, because each option contains the same set of replacer files duplicated (but with different qualities like colour of texture or mesh model differences) - If it is the case that each sub-package contains all necessary files and completely overrides the previous sub-package, then the way the Stalhrim set gets chosen should be the way the others are chosen aswell, as opposed to being the odd man out :

[Beermotor]

27 minutes ago, alt3rn1ty said:

One final thing that stands out, but may not be an issue (I haven't checked out the contents of the sub-packages yet) ..

Its a minor thing though :

When choosing Refraction options for a particular weapon, the base sub-package remains selected aswell as the refraction sub-package

This is fine because the latter overwrites the former in all cases, and if the base sub-package is still needed because the refraction sub-package just overwrites say a couple of the base sub-package files then it needs to be this way so that works too ..

 

The thing is, the Stalhrim weapon set breaks from this behaviour, it does not consistently keep the base sub-package selected like the others do, it may not be an issue but eagle eyed people used to manually selecting sub-packages may also ask why the difference in selection behaviour.

The generally accepted norm of same numbered sub-packages with a different name added on are usually an either / or selection of these options, because each option contains the same set of replacer files duplicated (but with different qualities like colour of texture or mesh model differences) - If it is the case that each sub-package contains all necessary files and completely overrides the previous sub-package, then the way the Stalhrim set gets chosen should be the way the others are chosen aswell, as opposed to being the odd man out :

Thank you so much for looking at this and giving me such a good report.

I'm going to have to take the look at the various package arrangements. There are some places where the FOMOD would set a flag and install a subpackage, and others where it would just install a subpackage and its hard to keep up with.  What I may need to do is just do away with the flagging system and create a three-path nested installer that takes a different route depending on whether or not you install DSR or NGSs. It may be so much that I just need to diagram the thing in Visio or something to keep up with what is doing what.  We've got a long weekend coming up here in the US so I should have some time to hack at it.