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alt3rn1ty
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Do you really think we care? Doesn't matter what it relates to - if MS have done this, to anyone, on any kind of system, then they deserve to be slammed in jail to rot. And if you can get Google, Apple, Adobe and probably a few others in there to keep them company - feel free - I won't be shedding any tears...

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I don't think Microsoft has the legal authority to block stuff even on the XBox, no matter what their EULA says. Hardware is physical property they have no legal hold over. It's dangerous precedent because they will certainly become tempted to spread that to their phones, tablets, and then on to PCs once the sheeple and fanbois accept it.

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Also, a question in case one of you knows. Is it in any way possible to get a Win 10 Pro ISO that you can slap on top of a Home edition of 7? Yeah, cheap ass lizard saved a whopping $20 back in 2010 with a poor decision and now the "anytime upgrade" seriously expects me to throw away $120 to switch to Pro in 7.

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Also, a question in case one of you knows. Is it in any way possible to get a Win 10 Pro ISO that you can slap on top of a Home edition of 7? Yeah, cheap ass lizard saved a whopping $20 back in 2010 with a poor decision and now the "anytime upgrade" seriously expects me to throw away $120 to switch to Pro in 7.

The ISO creator will allow you to pick whatever version you want, but my understanding is that it will fail to register your product key if you don't upgrade to the equivalent version in 10.

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Hardware is physical property they have no legal hold over.

 

And Xbox Live is their property which we have no legal hold over.  They reserve the right to block people from Xbox Live if they are using modified hardware or peripherals that allow cheating.  They've always detected and disabled Xboxes using illegal modchips, so I'm not sure why everyone is suddenly so worked up over this.  Especially now that "eSports" is a thing, they probably need to be able to assure tournament sponsors that they detect modified hardware.

 

So really it's quite simple.  Don't buy hardware which allows you to cheat or bypass anti-piracy measures.  We don't have a legally protected right to access Microsoft's services under any circumstance, let alone ones where we are doing something unethical or illegal.  I'm sure everyone here realizes this, but it's something I think could use repeating.

 

As for the "disabling of software" this was completely made up by one source ("Alphr") and everyone else ran with it.  What it does cover is disabling your access to certain services if you are trying to do so with a pirated game.  The hardware thing is a non-issue, and definitely not a "dangerous precedent" when you consider that they've been doing this with modded Xboxes for over 10 years now. 

 

And again, let's look at what text actually prompted the original FUD article:

 

  • b. Sometimes you’ll need software updates to keep using the Services. We may automatically check your version of the software and download software updates or configuration changes, including those that prevent you from accessing the Services, playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices. You may also be required to update the software to continue using the Services. Such updates are subject to these Terms unless other terms accompany the updates, in which case, those other terms apply. Microsoft isn’t obligated to make any updates available and we don’t guarantee that we will support the version of the system for which you licensed the software.

(Emphasis mine)

 

So then, even if this did somehow apply to Windows 10 (it doesn't)...  Please point out where it describes "deleting data" from your PC, as so many of you have been discussing.  It's about the continuation of using Services (note the case).  "Services" is defined as those services listed here.

 

So, in layman, they will prevent you from using Xbox Live if you are found to be using pirated software or modified hardware.  This is absolutely nothing new in the industry.  Games like WoW, Diablo, Path of Exile have always done ban waves for using bots or scripts to allow unfair advantages.  If you are pirating your software or using hardware to get an unfair advantage, why should Microsoft allow you online with everyone else?

 

Here is a nice summary:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3h5wwg/windows_10_disabling_pirated_software_not_so_fast/

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Yes, you mentioned this before about not allowing pirated game users to access the XBox service. You're leaving out one particularly important detail though. Bad source or not. The exact same agreement got slapped on to the use of Windows 10 too. They didn't bother to change it. So you may trust their assurances that they won't meddle in the affairs of what people do with their hardware on Windows 10, but I do not trust them at all after their display in trying to force people to update to 10 with nagware in 7.

 

As far as modified hardware, I do not believe they have legal authority to block you from making use of it. They just haven't been sued to make that stick. Eventually someone will sue them, and it may well go class action, and I will welcome it with open arms because I don't EVER want them getting the idea that they can regulate PC hardware too. That simply isn't their concern and they have NO RIGHT to dictate that to anyone.

 

If people cheat, prove it, then ban them from the games they cheat in. Seems to work well enough with VAC bans on Steam and bot bans in MMOs.

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You're leaving out one particularly important detail though. Bad source or not. The exact same agreement got slapped on to the use of Windows 10 too. They didn't bother to change it. 

 

I'm not leaving anything out. You're still misunderstanding.  The Microsoft Services Agreement was not "slapped onto" the use of Windows 10, it is something you agree to because some of those SERVICES are *used in* Windows 10.  The agreement applies to those Services specifically listed at the bottom of the agreement.. NOT Windows 10.   Nothing will change this fact.  It's a well formed legal document and Services is explicitly defined as not including Windows 10 and the MSA is defined as not applying to Windows 10 (see quote below).  Just because it's one of the things you agree to when installing Windows 10 does NOT mean it applies to Windows 10. 

 

Please re-read the summary on Reddit again, in particular noting the date the MSA was published and this text (from Section 1.b. — Additional terms of the Microsoft Software License Terms):

 

Some Windows apps provide an access point to, or rely on, online services, and the use of those services is sometimes governed by separate terms and privacy policies, such as the Microsoft Services Agreement at (aka.ms/msa). You can view these terms and policies by looking at the service terms of use or the app’s settings, as applicable. The services may not be available in all regions.

 

So, the Windows 10 EULA itself states that the MSA does not apply to Windows 10.  End of discussion.

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Do you really think we care? Doesn't matter what it relates to - if MS have done this, to anyone, on any kind of system, then they deserve to be slammed in jail to rot. And if you can get Google, Apple, Adobe and probably a few others in there to keep them company - feel free - I won't be shedding any tears...

 

Yes, how dare Microsoft regulate access to it's own servers. :rolleyes:

 

That's really what this is about. Microsoft reserves the right to control who access their services. 

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That list of shit in the MSA covers an awful lot of stuff in Windows 10 that ships with the OS and is turned on by default and is sometimes not easy to disable, as well as sometimes IMPOSSIBLE to disable entirely.

 

So I think it's pretty fair to say that, yes, it does apply even if Windows 10 isn't specifically mentioned. A whole lot of what makes up Windows 10 is mentioned, which is why what they're doing is shady and should not be allowed.

 

You may like 10, and you may trust them. I do not trust them, so I will likely never find a reason to want 10 badly enough to take the risks that exist.

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So I think it's pretty fair to say that, yes, it does apply even if Windows 10 isn't specifically mentioned. A whole lot of what makes up Windows 10 is mentioned, which is why what they're doing is shady and should not be allowed.

 

You may like 10, and you may trust them. I do not trust them, so I will likely never find a reason to want 10 badly enough to take the risks that exist.

Yes, I have no doubt that it still does apply to Windows 10. Even if it isn't specifically mentioned, there's nothing stopping them from saying it does apply later on because that's how corrupt companies like M$ work. Since they hold a monopoly in the market and have basically unlimited resources to work with, who is going to stop them, the feds? No, I think not - they will welcome this spying operation with open arms and probably are already directly involved in the whole thing. Call me paranoid if you want, but so far M$ has done nothing to prove that they are not out to try to take control over everything their users do on their OS. Personally, I don't want any part of something like Win10 that even has the potential for abuse on my privacy rights, it's bad enough that this can already be done by the feds with my use of the Internet in and of itself.

 

For those who insist that this doesn't apply to Windows 10, where is the part in the EULA that says that Microsoft cannot and will not make it apply to their OS?

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Also, a question in case one of you knows. Is it in any way possible to get a Win 10 Pro ISO that you can slap on top of a Home edition of 7? Yeah, cheap ass lizard saved a whopping $20 back in 2010 with a poor decision and now the "anytime upgrade" seriously expects me to throw away $120 to switch to Pro in 7.

 

Back in the mists of time I remember reading a tutorial on customizing a windows installation so that the DVD would only install what you wanted in a clean install ... I had a search but cant come up with software I am thinking of, it basicly enabled you to extract and remake an ISO, and for instance not have Windows Media Player, and various superfluous services installed

 

Part of the tutorial was a "oh and by the way .." note which revealed that every Windows DVD you buy, is actually all variations on one DVD ( doesnt matter which, Home / Premium / Pro )

 

To get the version that you want was just a case of editing a file in a cat file with a text editor, and reburning the ISO

The license associated with the DVD was for any of those versions on that DVD, so no license key problems either. You pay for a home version and could install Pro.

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http://www.askvg.com/how-to-choose-desired-windows-7-edition-version-during-setup/

 

ei.cfg is the file which needs editing

 

Unfortunately the customizing software I was thinking of which used to be called nLite, is now a paid for product called NTLite, but you can probably do something similar with Ultra ISO http://www.ezbsystems.com/ultraiso/index.html

 

Or make a USB flash drive boot your ISO, and then interrupt your bios and change the USB device to be first on the list of bootable devices, put the flash drive in and reboot http://tweaks.com/windows/39415/how-to-install-windows-7-with-a-usb-flash-drive/

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Great bit about Godmode in the OP ... that is a keeper! Also, thanks for the update to culprit Win 7 updates attempting to shove the upgrade into our faces.

 

Agree with the gist of some that Win 10 is a great misstep by MS. I predict it will flop until they roll out an update to provide a more PC/admin-friendly flavor of this proctological hodgepodge-of-an-OS.

 

... I tried the upgrade, I tried the fresh install, I followed the recommendations ... :sick: ... looking to the future of Linux in the post Win 7 world 

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I can't believe I'm even suggesting it, but... SteamOS anyone? :X

 

Any regular Linux distro will do. A lot of games now run under Linux either natively or in WINE. You can always keep Win 7 in a separate partition and just use it for playing games. That's what I do. Once the support ends for it (in 2020?) you can just keep the internet shut off in it. That way you can keep using it for as long as you like.

I wasn't sure if I should upgrade my win 7 to Win 10. After reading this thread I've made up my mind to keep Win 7 for games and use Linux for everything else.  Over the past few weeks I've been trying out my games in Linux to see what works and I've been quite surprised with what I've been able to get running.

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The main reason I half-jokingly suggested SteamOS is because, like them or not, Valve has a vested interest in making sure games work on it. So one might expect the burden of figuring out all of the cryptic stuff linux is famous for will be reduced somewhat.

 

I'd still consider that a bit of a last resort solution. Something I'd only consider if Microsoft does something nefarious to make Windows 7 break.

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How can they possibly break it? Assuming of course that you ripped out the phone home autoupdate shite 5 seconds after installing the OS in the first place. I fail to see why we can't continue to use it despite MS saying it's unsupported - a statement which basically means nothing. The problem will be hardware and the drivers for it not supporting 7 any more which will be the final problem, not MS directly (for once).

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I have only had one driver problem, and that was with one of those multi-function printers ( scanner / printer / fax combined in one machine ). It has a few drivers, one comes up in Driver Manager under Imaging devices, and the main one should come up in the Printers, but was automatically being installed under Other Devices and becoming disabled .. Anyway long story short seeking the device out manually in advanced setup was the way to go to get the driver correctly recognised.

 

I had to do that remotely controlling a family members machine long distance because Windows 10 had disabled the old setup, and Epson said it was a Microsoft problem with their auto installed generic drivers.

 

Otherwise driver updates have been trouble free across five different machines I have had a hand in upgrading.

 

--------------------------

 

Those windows updates details not being linked or published anymore is really annoying, under windows 7 I always used to use the "More info" link for any updates which seemed conservative in their descriptions, and decide on a case by case basis if I wanted the individual updates.

 

One thing I have noticed being privileged to have gone through this upgrade many times, is that windows updates can put Privacy settings back to defaults.

A fresh install of Win 10, followed by you going through everything in the first post of this topic, should leave you with everything to do with privacy in the off state.

Now let the first batch of windows updates happen and revisit all the privacy settings, you will find a few have been switched back to the On state ( and I am not talking about brand new features installed by the update, these are features already in place before the updates and previously switched off )

 

So we can probably expect more of that, as Microsoft realise more excuses to go switching things back on.

 

Dont bother uninstalling things either, like Camera / Film and TV / Food and Drink / Get Skype / Get Office / weather .. etc etc, loads of crap apps I personally will never use.

Just disable them from being Live, and then remove them from Start - If you try to uninstall them, they just come back like bad pennies in the next Windows Updates batch, with default setup.

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So back to that same old - disable updates totally. It's the ONLY way to protect yourself against MS. Wait until W11 is released and has 1 Service Pack. Then install W10 and the last SP for it - all offline (pull the cable out - don't trust MS not to be hiding connections from you). Disable updates. Install a Firewall which warns you about absolutely every tiny attempt to use the network and make sure you block everything which pops up. Register windows so you never have to do it again (allow that, obviously), pull the plug out and continue deleting / blocking until you're happy. Grin like the cheshire cat while giving MS the finger.

What's so annoying is that we should not have to fight so hard to prevent these companies doing this shit in the first place. But at least we can, until there are no PCs and everything is a phone/tablet which makes life so much more difficult for us. Then just throw the lot in the trash and go live on a beach somewhere, but be careful - they'll be trying to shove a GPS tracker up your arse if you do...

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You know, "there has to be a catch" doesn't seem anywhere near adequate to express how right my suspicions are about this company. Evil Microsoft of the 1990s is back, sort of like how Mother Russia is back with Putin in charge.

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