[WIPz] TES5Edit

[zilav]

Thanks for that, just had a look at the COMCodsworth, and it's exactly the same kind of thing (looking as though whole chunks of the quest have just been removed), I also noticed both quests have a flag I've never seen before in the record header – Unknown:14.

 

So I guess all the quest's data is still there just not in a form xEdit can display yet?

My vague guess is that this flag means to "inherit" quest data data from the master record to overcome the rule of one. There are people among us who already have CK and can tell more if they want/could.

[Old Nick]

The records aren't decoded enough to do much of anything.  Most people are making Weapon mods, Armor Mods, I have a list of records that appear unchanged but I assure you they are unimportant to modders.  Things like Quest, Dialogue, INFO will all need to be updated.  Not to beat a dead horse but we have been saying that since launch.  There is no official CK yet.

 

I knew this was true early on, but I had thought that the Quest record was fully decoded a while ago, at least enough to edit the Info child records and tweak various values, I've been editing quests and/or dialogue in my mods for a couple of months or so, and even before the quest records were editable/copyable we could still see the data, so I was just shocked when I looked in the DLC esm to see 90% of the information just apparently having been deleted.

 

 

Have you updated your copy of xEdit recently?

We don't have versioning and stuff for the Alpha so be sure to use the EXE from FO4Edit 3.1.3 - 19733ee on the Nexus.

 

I'm using the latest Nexus version yes, I even had a quick look on GitHub but couldn't quickly see how to grab the latest version.

 

 

My vague guess is that this flag means to "inherit" quest data data from the master record to overcome the rule of one. There are people among us who already have CK and can tell more if they want/could.

 

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense, I guess that would be an important milestone for Beth's games in terms of mod compatibility.

 

I'm itching to get my hands on a copy of the CK myself

[zilav]

Uploaded new version to support changes in Wasteland Workshop DLC (unexpected navmesh subrecord error in ACTI record).

Added children records of quest (SCEN, DLBR, DIAL, INFO) to ONAMs list and some other minor changes.

[InsanePlumber]

Please can we have the possibility in the settings or argument for xEdit to build reference info on startup. (I realizes extended loading times)

[zilav]

Please can we have the possibility in the settings or argument for xEdit to build reference info on startup. (I realizes extended loading times)

xEdit already builds references on startup. Or you mean for the game master file?

[InsanePlumber]

Or you mean for the game master file?

Yes, exactly. (I should be more specific)

[zilav]

Yes, exactly. (I should be more specific)

 

Drop into Edit Scripts, press F7 (change hotkey to your taste) when you want to build master file refs

{
  Hotkey: F7
}
unit BuildMasterRef;
 
function Initialize: integer;
begin
  AddMessage('Building the game master file references, please wait...');
  BuildRef(FileByIndex(0));
  Result := 1;
end;
 
end.

[InsanePlumber]

Thank you, zilav.

[Roy Batty]

I think I've requested that feature before. It would be nice if it was in the options.

[fireundubh]

 

Drop into Edit Scripts, press F7 (change hotkey to your taste) when you want to build master file refs

 

Other than the hotkey, how is this different from Right-click > Other > Build Reference Info?

[Sharlikran]

While one may want it as a preference under options consider this. Some of those preferences once set, are not saved until you close xEdit. Remember there is no function to hot-load or re-load files again after important changes.  Just like there is no file menu where you specify to load a different set of files.  So while you may think it's convenient it could also be a nuisance.

 

1. You open xEdit and it doesn't build the references for the main game master like Skyrim.esm or Fallout4.esm.  It takes say one minute to load.
2. You change the preference to build these references and close xEdit.
3. You open xEdit and now it does build the references for the main game master like Skyrim.esm or Fallout4.esm.  It takes say 20 minutes to load.
4. At some point you want to not build the references because of the increased time.  You are busy doing other things and don't need that and you want it to load more quickly.  However, to turn that off you will have to wait once for it to build all those references, for 20 minutes, turn it off, then close xEdit before you can reopen xEdit and start doing what you wanted to do.

Is that really okay with you guys?  It would be off by default because I know users will complain and be confused it's on by default.

 

I know Zilav wants to limit automation from the command line but most of the time command line switches are okay.  Would a command line switch work?

[JaxFirehart]

Is there a reason you can't just cache the data in an external file? If you start the cache with the checksum of the file you can verify that the master has not changed and, instead of calculating references, just read them in. Save massive time.

[fireundubh]

Is there a reason you can't just cache the data in an external file? If you start the cache with the checksum of the file you can verify that the master has not changed and, instead of calculating references, just read them in. Save massive time.

 

I suggested this a long time ago. Not sure why it's not possible. Zilav said something something I don't remember. But I know there are some aspects of xEdit that are complex enough that Elminster would need to return to the project.

[zilav]

Other than the hotkey, how is this different from Right-click > Other > Build Reference Info?

No difference. GUI menu does exactly the same.

 

I know Zilav wants to limit automation from the command line but most of the time command line switches are okay.  Would a command line switch work?

I don't see any valid reason to implement that when you can just hotkey and quickly use on demand. I treat such changes as subjective tuning for personal workflow, and that's not what I like to do. You can't imagine how many times I had to restrain myself from making personal changes in xEdit when I was the only active developer. But instead I concentrated on adding scripting as it is universal approach to expand functionality of any application.

 

I suggested this a long time ago. Not sure why it's not possible. Zilav said something something I don't remember. But I know there are some aspects of xEdit that are complex enough that Elminster would need to return to the project.

Possible since refs are arrays, but not so fast and easy to implement. Certainly if Elminster will come back it would probably take an hour or two for him, but waaaay longer for me. I almost never fiddle with internal code and usually ask Hlp for any engine updates. I'm leaving decision on this up to him, but personally prefer to wait for Elmister. He will return at some point to taste Fallout 4

[Roy Batty]

If it's optional I don't see how it's "personal workflow", it's just another option someone can make or not make use of that makes the tool more flexible. I am fine with that, references build very fast for me. I can see why most would not want it, and off by default so things wouldn't change for most users is the best course of action. If it has to be a command line switch that is certainly an acceptable solution.

 

@zilav: I am curious, what would you change?

 

If Elminster returns and makes reference caching, that would be useful in general to cut down on loading times no matter the plugins.

[zilav]

@zilav: I am curious, what would you change?

When you convince my why is it so important to have that embedded in xEdit, and how is it any better than building refs with a single hotkey like I showed above. I have a feeling that to build master file references in xEdit someone needs to pass nine gates of hell, set myriads of options, click hundreds of times, etc., hence asking it to be automatic. And I could understand that if it were true, but it is not

[Kesta]

When you convince my why is it so important to have that embedded in xEdit, and how is it any better than building refs with a single hotkey like I showed above. I have a feeling that to build master file references in xEdit someone needs to pass nine gates of hell, set myriads of options, click hundreds of times, etc., hence asking it to be automatic. And I could understand that if it were true, but it is not

 

What is true is that xEdit have a "do not automatically build reference infos" feature for specific plugins, and that having Skyrim.esm built by default in the code but listed in there would change nothing to today's behavior except making IP and a few other people happy because they could remove it from there  Yes, I'm trolling with logic. 

 

As far as the argumentation on ergonomy goes, the only real point against using the hotkey is that you have to wait for the background loader to be completed before pressing it. So if you're used to switch out of xEdit to do something else while it's loading, you have to go back to it, press the key, then go back to what you were doing until it's complete.

 

 

Btw, I think Roy's question was about what YOU would have added if you had listened to yourself instead of enhancing the scripting api. (In other words : Why is Mator an unknown person in a parallel universe ? )

[Roy Batty]

What is true is that xEdit have a "do not automatically build reference infos" feature for specific plugins, and that having Skyrim.esm built by default in the code but listed in there would change nothing to today's behavior except making IP and a few other people happy because they could remove it from there  Yes, I'm trolling with logic. 

 

As far as the argumentation on ergonomy goes, the only real point against using the hotkey is that you have to wait for the background loader to be completed before pressing it. So if you're used to switch out of xEdit to do something else while it's loading, you have to go back to it, press the key, then go back to what you were doing until it's complete.

 

 

Btw, I think Roy's question was about what YOU would have added if you had listened to yourself instead of enhancing the scripting api.

 

Yes that is exactly why, since the option is already partially there it's just that the games ESM's are hardcoded instead of in the list of exclusions. Wait, press button wait again... could be done at once as said.

 

And yes, I was curious what you yourself would add/change if you had not restrained yourself. Maybe they are good ideas and you are too critical, also just out of curiosity.

[fireundubh]

What is true is that xEdit have a "do not automatically build reference infos" feature for specific plugins, and that having Skyrim.esm built by default in the code but listed in there would change nothing to today's behavior except making IP and a few other people happy because they could remove it from there.

 

I don't understand what you're saying.

• You can skip building references for all plugins by holding Shift when you click OK to load a plugin or plugins.
• When you've skipped building references for all plugins, you can build references for specific plugins by going to Right-click > Other > Build Reference Info and selecting the specific plugins for which you want to build references.
• Currently, if you don't skip building references for all plugins, references are built for all plugins (excluding the base master) automatically by default.

There are no changes to be made here, in my opinion. Personally, I'd prefer if reference building was off by default and Shift+OK built references for all selected plugins, but eh.

[zilav]

What is true is that xEdit have a "do not automatically build reference infos" feature for specific plugins, and that having Skyrim.esm built by default in the code but listed in there would change nothing to today's behavior except making IP and a few other people happy because they could remove it from there  Yes, I'm trolling with logic.

It is too late now. If I add that behaviour, anyone who at least once opened Options window and clicked Ok has them saved in ini, so master file refs will be built for them automatically since the game master file won't be in that list. I'd need to implement versioning for options to solve this, and that's too much work for non existing problem without any benefits except for a few users.

[Arthmoor]

Do we know what happened here?

 

http://imgur.com/Td5ucho

 

Everything from where the info goes missing all the way to the bottom does not display for some reason.

[Sharlikran]

Do we know what happened here?

http://imgur.com/Td5ucho

Everything from where the info goes missing all the way to the bottom does not display for some reason.

I looked at it in a nex editor after making a plugin with just that one record. The last thing was WorkshopWorkObject. Then it just stops. So Bethesda did it. I used HxD if you want to try it yourself.

[Arthmoor]

Oh, really? So they utterly botched the quest record themselves? Does that include the "Unknown 14" flag up at the top?

 

And do they know? This is something that needs to get reported because it means the whole WorkshopParent quest is garbage if someone is running with only official content.

[Sharlikran]

Oh, really? So they utterly botched the quest record themselves? Does that include the "Unknown 14" flag up at the top?

 

And do they know? This is something that needs to get reported because it means the whole WorkshopParent quest is garbage if someone is running with only official content.

Can't comment on the Unknown flag. I have not tried to decode Quest.

[Old Nick]

Do we know what happened here?

 

http://imgur.com/Td5ucho

 

Everything from where the info goes missing all the way to the bottom does not display for some reason.

 

I asked the same thing last week

 

whole swathes of sub-records appear to have been deleted, the quest name, the DNAM - General section (with the quest flags and priority in it), the stages, the aliases, all are just gone...

 

So, is this a bug with the DLC (it would be kind of a massive bug, no?), or has the quest's structure been altered somehow that xEdit can no longer read?

 

Name and Stages etc. , Aliases

 

And as dubh pointed out, the same thing happened to COMCodsworth [QUST:000BBD94] with Automatron

 

Not a bug, and not a problem with xEdit. The DLCs make significant changes to various records in order to make other things possible.

 

Automatron overhauls Codsworth, for example, to integrate Codsworth and the robot workshop features. (COMCodsworth [QUST:000BBD94])

 

I also asked about the Unknown:14 flag

 

My vague guess is that this flag means to "inherit" quest data data from the master record to overcome the rule of one. There are people among us who already have CK and can tell more if they want/could.

 

I know we can't talk about it here Arthmoor (maybe start a thread on the official forums), but have you tried loading WW into the CK and saving a new plugin, and have you looked for any flags you can add to the quests in the CK that might explain this.

 

I've been accepted into the CK beta, but I haven't installed it yet