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Skyrim Anniversary Edition and You


Arthmoor
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1 hour ago, lmstearn said:

Not their intention at all, what you hope for is a sophisticated versioning control system capable of versioning up, downgrading, rolling back game program files, save files, along with installed mods. For the money you pay, not happening. In any case, these days no S/W company ever encourages rolling back to previous versions when there are issues, they just release a bugfix version.

It ends up perhaps not the most ideal package deal for everyone, but like you, like me, like everyone else here, we all have to get used to it.

Ah I think I didn't express myself clearly. What I meant to say is, that even though there is a new release, it doesn't render the previous one non-functional, or have any effect on it whatsoever. 1.5.97 works today exactly the same as it did back in October 2021.

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It may not render the previous version non-functional, but it's also no longer the supported version of the game and as such modders are not obligated to gimp their own work because a tiny minority of people doesn't understand what they're dealing with.

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On 11/28/2021 at 6:48 PM, Blackread said:

What is the source for the alleged performance improvements? Has there been benchmarking done with any sort of statistical significance?

Likewise I would be interested to hear if there's verifiable evidence of downgrade patching having adverse effects on the game. And is Bethesda really giving technical support for games that have been modded to any degree?

I find it somewhat ironic that you complain about bad information floating around, and then make claims like these without anything to back them up.

So, I think the real issue here is that:

A. People are trying to fight Steam and refuse the update indefinitely.

and

B. People are using potentially harmful tools to modify their exe files in an attempt to refuse the most up to date version.

This is essentially the same as the people insisting that they can stay on Windows 7 even though it's not reported. Sure, it works right now, but that situation will not last forever. Eventually compatibility will break.

Others have already covered this, but there's really no question that the new exe will be more efficient code-wise. The main problem with the update to the compiler is that it depreciates old functions for new ones, essentially changing the "shape" of the exe file to be more efficient and breaking SKSE (as every exe update always has).

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I would say there is a middle ground between never updating and updating day one, and that's where most people I know fall in. Personally I treat it like the Windows 11 release. When the right features and compatibility are there I will hit the switch, but not before. In modding terms it would probably mean either (1) all the .dll mods I use are ported over or (2) there is a groundbreaking new release on 1.6.x.

I still don't understand how the downgrade patcher could be as dangerous as it is made out to be. Firstly, it uses the same technology as wabbajack, so if the tech itself was somehow inherently flawed, every wabbajack list would be affected. Secondly, if it does break the game, there's nothing it can do that can't be fixed with a quick verification of local files on Steam, or a reinstall if all else fails.

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Since I don't know what is exactly included in AE, what about the inclusion of hundreds of CC mods in the game and their integration?

I use a small number of mods (below 200 and none of which requires SKSE) but in those mods there are worldspace-changing mods and mods changing leveled lists. Towns, villages, additions or changes to the landscape, mods adding items on random NPCs and containers, etc. What I'm worried about is the myriad of conflicts there will be if CC mods adds a cave here, a house there, a trigger point over there on top of mods already occupying the same space, add or remove items on already occupied leveled lists, etc.

Do I wait for the mod authors to release compatibility patches and remake a bashed patch and I'm OK? And if they don't make patches, what can be done?

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2 hours ago, Bambacha said:

Since I don't know what is exactly included in AE, what about the inclusion of hundreds of CC mods in the game and their integration?

I use a small number of mods (below 200 and none of which requires SKSE) but in those mods there are worldspace-changing mods and mods changing leveled lists. Towns, villages, additions or changes to the landscape, mods adding items on random NPCs and containers, etc. What I'm worried about is the myriad of conflicts there will be if CC mods adds a cave here, a house there, a trigger point over there on top of mods already occupying the same space, add or remove items on already occupied leveled lists, etc.

Do I wait for the mod authors to release compatibility patches and remake a bashed patch and I'm OK? And if they don't make patches, what can be done?

The SSE update which occurred on Nov 11,  2021 was an engine update.  Combined with that update were four free DLC items, but other than the gift, it was no different than any other previous update. 

Also made available on Nov 11,  2021 was a CC package for US$20.  This is a separate purchase, and it not required.  I have not purchased this "package". 

SO..... If you have installed the update from Nov 11, 2021, AND you are not changing the mods you have been using in this play through, you should be safe to just fire up your game and play on.  That is what I did.

 

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For me mods seem to be working fine (granted I play mod lite).  But I get the black screen lock up after playing about 20 seconds the first time I start the game.  But only once or twice, then I can play on for hours and everything is fine, but the first time I turn the game on, and sometimes the second, the game locks up and goes black.  It's gotten to the point where I'm expecting it so I just wait for it to happen, go out to Windows and Task Manager and shut the game down.  Count to ten.  Start the game again.  Sometimes it does it again, but then after that I can just play on.

No idea why it's doing this, or why it's so consistent and predictable.  It's annoying, but I know I can just close the game down and restart and things are usually fine.

It's just weird.  Never had a game do this before.

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19 hours ago, Blackread said:

I would say there is a middle ground between never updating and updating day one, and that's where most people I know fall in. Personally I treat it like the Windows 11 release. When the right features and compatibility are there I will hit the switch, but not before. In modding terms it would probably mean either (1) all the .dll mods I use are ported over or (2) there is a groundbreaking new release on 1.6.x.

I still don't understand how the downgrade patcher could be as dangerous as it is made out to be. Firstly, it uses the same technology as wabbajack, so if the tech itself was somehow inherently flawed, every wabbajack list would be affected. Secondly, if it does break the game, there's nothing it can do that can't be fixed with a quick verification of local files on Steam, or a reinstall if all else fails.

Aye I don't believe anyones saying they're never going to update ever thats just silly right now according to people I trust theres nothing  in the .exe thats different from the previous build its just a recompile with a new VS version. Obviously if a new update arrives with new features added then thats a different matter and you'd be foolish to continue with new content especially if its official CC but thats not now

The downgrade is a binary patcher, potentially they can be used to inject malicious code but I don't believe for one moment thats the case here, obviously its down to whether you trust the source or not and in this case I do

5 hours ago, LeBurns said:

For me mods seem to be working fine (granted I play mod lite).  But I get the black screen lock up after playing about 20 seconds the first time I start the game.  But only once or twice, then I can play on for hours and everything is fine, but the first time I turn the game on, and sometimes the second, the game locks up and goes black.  It's gotten to the point where I'm expecting it so I just wait for it to happen, go out to Windows and Task Manager and shut the game down.  Count to ten.  Start the game again.  Sometimes it does it again, but then after that I can just play on.

No idea why it's doing this, or why it's so consistent and predictable.  It's annoying, but I know I can just close the game down and restart and things are usually fine.

It's just weird.  Never had a game do this before.

You're on xbox if I remember yes? Theres been all sorts of issues with consoles that bethesda are still looking into

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8 hours ago, soupdragon said:

 

You're on xbox if I remember yes? Theres been all sorts of issues with consoles that bethesda are still looking into

PC.  I use STEAM.  I have the SAE so all the CC mods, plus about a dozen from Beth.net, and maybe five more I downloaded from Nexus and installed manually.  Other than the CC stuff all are mods I've used for years, so nothing new other than AE and the CC stuff.  This is definitely a AE problem, but for it to be so consistent makes me wonder why no one has figured out the problem yet.  Again I can just restart the game once or twice and then all works fine, but the initial black screen when starting up has me puzzled.

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1 hour ago, LeBurns said:

PC.  I use STEAM.  I have the SAE so all the CC mods, plus about a dozen from Beth.net, and maybe five more I downloaded from Nexus and installed manually.  Other than the CC stuff all are mods I've used for years, so nothing new other than AE and the CC stuff.  This is definitely a AE problem, but for it to be so consistent makes me wonder why no one has figured out the problem yet.  Again I can just restart the game once or twice and then all works fine, but the initial black screen when starting up has me puzzled.

Is the problem that common? I have SAE with the "upgrade cc package". On top of that over 200 active mods frome here and Nexus, including SKSE. Total active plugins 274. No problems what so ever.

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2 hours ago, Wasarion said:

Is the problem that common? I have SAE with the "upgrade cc package". On top of that over 200 active mods frome here and Nexus, including SKSE. Total active plugins 274. No problems what so ever.

I'm pretty sure I already updated my vid driver, but I can check that again also I guess.  I don't play that much and haven't been playing other game lately so it may be a driver problem and not a SAE issue.  We'll see as I'll try again tonight if I can.  Unfortunately real life takes up so much of my ... life.

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Thanks to the original post.  I had rather figured most of it it but it was clear and concise.  Cheers.

Personally, I am fully AE now and can count on one hand the number of mods I want to use that are not working.  I expect 3/4 of them will be at some point.  I consider this a good trade-off for the extra stuff that came with the SE update and twenty quid of AE content.

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I should like to chime in here. Firstly, I am on XB1S….so no computery stuff, however I rather share Bambacha’s concern with all this AE CC content loading in.

I am in two minds as to whether AE is a good idea or not.  
On the one hand, it IS Bethesda’s world and CC stuff is endorsed/created by Bethesda…making it canon.  So you do not have the full TES experience without ALL the CC stuff.

On the other hand imo many of the ‘additions’ are poorly conceived from a lore stand point and are a clear cash grab rather than a deep and meaningful upgrade to the game world.

Bethesda have the technical right to make any changes they see fit…our purchase price merely confers the right to play with their toy.  However, as my old friend and sage  Paarthurnax wisely says “Just because one can do a thing does not mean one should”.

A.

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4 hours ago, Adella said:

I should like to chime in here. Firstly, I am on XB1S….so no computery stuff, however I rather share Bambacha’s concern with all this AE CC content loading in.

I am in two minds as to whether AE is a good idea or not.  
On the one hand, it IS Bethesda’s world and CC stuff is endorsed/created by Bethesda…making it canon.  So you do not have the full TES experience without ALL the CC stuff.

On the other hand imo many of the ‘additions’ are poorly conceived from a lore stand point and are a clear cash grab rather than a deep and meaningful upgrade to the game world.

Bethesda have the technical right to make any changes they see fit…our purchase price merely confers the right to play with their toy.  However, as my old friend and sage  Paarthurnax wisely says “Just because one can do a thing does not mean one should”.

A.

I'm on PC and paid the extra to get the full AE upgrade.  I'd like to respond concerning your mention of how 'Lore Friendly' the additions are, as that's always a concern of mine also.

Honestly I'd say most of the stuff seems pretty lore friendly and fits into the game.  I've done all the homes and many of the other side things, including finding some of the new armors/weapons/etc..  I'm not going to just say that because it's all BGS approved it must be lore, because some of it is a bit much.

I do appreciate how they spread out the 'messengers' so that you are not dumped on right away with twenty new quests.  Well done there.

However some items, like say for example the crossbows, you literally have to find a note in some abandon home out in the middle of nowhere to start the quest.  Honestly having played some 50+ characters well over 5K hours I may have stumbled upon this place a couple times.  So unless you use meta-gaming to just go straight to the home to find the note you may never get the crossbow quest, which is true for several of the new content items.  If you don't meta-game to seek it out, you'll more than likely never find it, which kind of defeats the purpose of even having it installed.

Concerning the additional homes.  Some are criminally easy to get, while others take a small quest and perhaps even a decent fight.  But all are over the top IMO in what they give you.  It's clear the modders where trying to outdo themselves with what they can add to a home, and I'm not saying they are not well done or look great, but they are just too much in what's included in them.  I would prefer things a little scaled back or maybe even some 'less is more' options rather than these grand homes you just get.

So far I will say that the AE upgrade has been well worth it.  There's still a lot of new things for me to find and try out, and I'm looking forward to it.

 

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I do not have any of the AE content, but with my tremendously large build, I have literally thousands of things I may never encounter in game.  My personal philosophy on this is that it is like real life - there is so much that you will not encounter, but when you do stumble across it, it is "Oh, wow!  Look at this!"  Of course, there are people who have the philosophy that you state, LeBurns "Why have it in the game if you are never going to come across it?"   I think it is probably a matter of taste, no right or wrong about it.  And even though I do not have the extra content, I would say that for someone who gets it, it is a very good deal - a lot of bang for the buck - and as you said, well implemented as to not dumping everything into your journal at once.

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1 hour ago, smr1957 said:

I do not have any of the AE content, but with my tremendously large build, I have literally thousands of things I may never encounter in game.  My personal philosophy on this is that it is like real life - there is so much that you will not encounter, but when you do stumble across it, it is "Oh, wow!  Look at this!"  Of course, there are people who have the philosophy that you state, LeBurns "Why have it in the game if you are never going to come across it?"   I think it is probably a matter of taste, no right or wrong about it.  And even though I do not have the extra content, I would say that for someone who gets it, it is a very good deal - a lot of bang for the buck - and as you said, well implemented as to not dumping everything into your journal at once.

Specifically the hidden items that concern me are the ones that you may have gotten the upgrade for to begin with.  For example if you really wanted a crossbow character, and got the AE upgrade for that addition you saw, but then played without meta-gaming you more than likely would never find the crossbow quest.  So you read about the quest, and then run your new character straight to that location to start the quest.  Just seems a little ... well off to me.  Personally I love finding like hidden Easter Eggs and such in dungeons/caves/etc. and that's all good.  But if a new feature being added to the game can only be found in an out of the way 'hidden' area, to me that's not the same.

For example some of the new armor in the game you can immediately make yourself as soon as you have the Smithing perk for that type of armor.  It's just there, like the Soldier Iron Armor or Scout Leather Armor.  That's how you add a new item to a game.  The crossbows should have just been added directly to the Smithing list from the get go, "Crossbows are now a thing!".  Heck even the earlier games had crossbows.  Just my opinion anyway.

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  • 4 weeks later...
1 hour ago, eblisazadi said:

Do you think now is a good time to play AE or still have to wait a few months. 

I've been playing Anniversary Edition since November and I'm having a ball.  But if RaceMenu is really that important to you, you might want to wait.  Only you can make that decision.

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Okay, I need some clarification here regarding the AE add-on/bundle (which I do not have so I need to rely on others to provide the info).  A question has come up in the Steam forum as to how do you remove CC content from the add-on if you do not wish it in your game.  It was my impression, that when you purchased the add-on, it came as ALL the CC content, and that you could not remove - or pick and choose (as would be the case if you purchased the CC content individually).  Now, however, people are claiming in this thread - Ok, so how does one can delete CC content from his game?  that this is not so, and you can select what content out of the AE add-on you want and which you do not want, and posting how you remove what is not wanted (not from an existing save or game, of course). I responded based upon the response to this original question here in AFK (as well as my own individual impressions of how it would work):

Posted November 6, 2021

"I'm pretty sure the AE content will work like Creations do."

In the Steam thread, I posted the following:

begin quote 

"Not sure that is such a good idea.

In response to this:
Posted November 7, 2021
"They probably assume that if you bought it, you must want to play it. Pretty sure you can uncheck them in 3rd party mod managers if you're using the PC version though."

Arthmoor replied:
"If they behave like existing DLCs, and there's no reason to think they won't, then if they're in the folder on PC, the game will load them regardless. A properly functioning mod manager should not allow you to disable them since the game won't.

Obviously you can simply delete the files from your game folder on PC, but Steam will put them back the next time it checks validation."


 

People can try what they want, but it is on them - if you bought the AE add-on, then you have all the CC content. Yes you can remove it from the folders, but it will be added right back in - plus, since it is all integral to AE add-on now, there is no telling what it may break if you remove individual content - as the triggering of many of them is now interlocked.

If you wanted the individual CC content, you should have bought them individually, and not the AE add-on/bundle - and that is the way Bethesda assumed it as well, and how they implemented it. If you don;t like some of the content, ignore it.

But, as long as you understand the risks, it's your game, but I do not think anyone should be recommending it."  end quote

 

Now I am being told in that Steam thread that you can pick and choose which CC content you can choose from the AE addon, and that it is not actually one intrinsic package, and that AE add-on content can be disabled or removed at will (albeit requiring a new game).

Since, as I said, I do not own the add-on (and, some people responding there I have my doubts as to whether they are reliable or not), I thought that perhaps Arthmoor, or one of the other reliable individuals here. could give me an answer (or just post over there to confirm or deny what is posted there).

Thanks and much appreciated

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There's a bit of clarification I'm told needs to be made on the issue of SE vs AE and such. So here it is:

1. Skyrim Special Edition is still an active store entry on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/489830/The_Elder_Scrolls_V_Skyrim_Special_Edition/

2. Skyrim Anniversary Edition Upgrade is an independent store entry for the DLC bundle: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1746860/The_Elder_Scrolls_V_Skyrim_Anniversary_Upgrade/

3. "Skyrim Anniversary Edition" is a store bundle (note the URL difference) that is set up as a convenient method to buy both SE and the AE Upgrade in one go: https://store.steampowered.com/sub/626153/

#3 is the present day equivalent of the old Skyrim Legendary Edition bundle they sold on Steam until 2016.

With that out of the way, here's the deal:

For Survival, Fishing, Saint's & Seducers, and Rare Curios, they ship with the SE 1.6 update as additional content. These cannot be disabled by any normal means through a mod manager or any other normal method. They will load into the game regardless. All players on all platforms will have these DLCs and it is therefore reasonable and expected that mod authors begin shipping mods that account for this content, in much the same way we all began doing for the old LE updates.

For the AE Upgrade, the other 70 DLCs will be installed and activated by the game with no intervention from the user. These also cannot be disabled by any normal means through a mod manager etc.

On PC, you *CAN* delete the files from your Data folder, but if Steam detects they are missing they will be reinstalled without you knowing it. This is NOT a normal or supported thing to do with the game and is not something any mod author should reasonably be expected to support.

There is a #4 though, and that #4 is when someone elects NOT to buy the AE Upgrade but instead goes into the Creation Club store area and individually buys only some of the DLCs. In this case, and this case only, the game will only download the ones you've paid for while leaving the others out. This is not at all the same as buying the whole bundle and then disabling some of them. This is people intentionally not buying some of them to begin with. It is because of this #4 that it is possible someone may not have everything and therefore be a problem to expect everyone to always have all 70 of these additional DLCs.

Obviously going the #4 route is not cost effective. You'd spend way more than the $20 to do that, but it is an option that still exists.

In all of the above cases, Steam will reacquire missing content when it performs its regular integrity checks. These integrity checks are not always user initiated.

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