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20 minutes ago, Fenrus said:

Bethnet has 97 global moderators. 52 Moderators

But most of those are not active.  Out of those 52 Moderators I am the only one who is active.  There is one other Moderator who posts now and then,  but he has not done any actual moderating work since we moved to the new site back in 2017.  I have not seen the other Moderators even visit the site.   

Likewise, I'd say that at least two-thirds of the Global Moderators have not logged onto the site in several years.  Since I've been a Moderator I probably see only about 10 of them handle incoming Flags with any regularity.  

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Just a place for Bethesda net refugees to find each other

See, this is where I think Bethesda made a serious mistake. Back in "the old days" moderators were entirely volunteers, enlisted exclusively from existing members. These people were familiar not only

ohhh this Bethesda sunset is having a real negative affect because of all the negative attention from the Bethesda closing down its web site the name Sah has plummeted in popularity from #7

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4 minutes ago, Pseron Wyrd said:

But most of those are not active.  Out of those 52 Moderators I am the only one who is active.  There is one other who posts now and then,  but he has not done any actual moderating work since we moved to the new site back in 2017.  I have not even seen the other Moderators visit the site.   

Likewise, I'd say that at least two-thirds of the Global Moderators have not logged on in several years.  Since I've been a Moderator I probably see only about 10 of them handle Flags with any regularity.  That is actually one of my gripes with them.  I'm not really sure what most of these people actually do.  I sure never see them on the website.  

Looking at the 'groups area' It looks like you, Cartogriffi and Narathi (19000 posts) who did all the work. I think Beth just added their employees to the moderator list.

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Hi guys,

So, if we could just keep things on an even keel here. I understand that a lot of people are frustrated with Bethesda closing their forums and, by the looks of it, at recent moderation policies. We have no objection to you expressing some frustration but we'd ask you do so in moderation, lest we need to actively moderate.

I'm reposting the forum rules here for everyone, I'd specifically draw attention to point five on the list with regards to some of the things that have been said. Let me be clear, we expect all members to conduct themselves as though they are in 'polite company' and some of the posts in this thread have definitely skipped over that line.

This is the second time this thread has drawn my attention for less than positive reasons. Should I be drawn back here a third time it will be with a view to active moderation, which nobody here wants. Some members may wish to consider a little light editing, because if we do start strictly enforcing the rules we'll be going through all recent posts.

So let's everyone just take a breath, have a cup of tea, and relax.

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Fair enough, by joining this sit we by default are bound to the site rules as posted no argument with that. I do have one question though, as we all know there are many words in the english language that have multiple meaning depending on context. Is it ok to use those types of words if used in the corect context which is not offensive. For instance the proper name Dick van Dyke was censored by a bot that took no account of the fact it is a proper name and in that context the words Dick and dyke are not offencive. I ask this in the interests of clarity. 

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Uncus said:

Fair enough, by joining this sit we by default are bound to the site rules as posted no argument with that. I do have one question though, as we all know there are many words in the english language that have multiple meaning depending on context. Is it ok to use those types of words if used in the corect context which is not offensive. For instance the proper name Dick van Dyke was censored by a bot that took no account of the fact it is a proper name and in that context the words Dick and dyke are not offencive. I ask this in the interests of clarity. 

You'll notice that swearing is not specifically censured under the rules. You are perfectly free to swear, if you so wish, so long as you are not swearing at someone, i.e. attacking them, and it is not excessive, i.e. spam or harassment. Note also the prohibition on "adult material" that doesn't cover sweating but would, for example, cover swearing in the context of describing 'lewd acts'.

As a general rule, however, I'd suggest people refrain from swearing profusely and avoid some of the more taboo curse words in the English language. Nobody is going to punish you for saying "dick" but calling someone a dick is not going to go over well.

Basically, if you wouldn't shout it out in the middle of the street, best not to post it.

Edit: I studied medieval English at university, so I have a very good grasp of the history of curse words in the English language and I guarantee I know some you don't. I'll take a very dim view of any attempts to "get one by the censor."

Edited by Sigurð Stormhand
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I think this is the first time I've read a forum's rules.  It feels a bit restrictive, like the collapse of the imaginary sense of freedom once you consider that you can't take a dump in the middle of Walmart.  Sorry for the ugly metaphor, but it's needed to illustrate the ugliness of the carelessness with which sometimes the word freedom is wrongly used in some parts of the world.  To be honest, I'm a bit surprised this thread is still going.  It feels like a badly conceived ode.  But many people were hurt on Bethesda, and I think the reason why this thread is still going.  I don't think the community there was very large, it might have been at some point years ago, but it was a vibrant one.  I was certainly not one of the active participants on there, but from what I've seen there were threads where I don't want think how many hours some people must have spent in there writing posts.

Point number five states "No posting of libelous claims against another party."  The definition of the word libelous according to a dictionary here states: "containing an untrue written statement that causes people to have a bad opinion of someone".  I'm reading up and trying to find somebody writing untrue statements against another party.  Seems to be general remarks, pretty self evident without needing further clarification, unless I'm missing something.  I'm all for having more rules, rules can lead to a path of inner freedom, but if somebody has overstepped it would be nice to understand where.

Thank you

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18 minutes ago, ikonomov said:

I think this is the first time I've read a forum's rules.  It feels a bit restrictive, like the collapse of the imaginary sense of freedom once you consider that you can't take a dump in the middle of Walmart.  Sorry for the ugly metaphor, but it's needed to illustrate the ugliness of the carelessness with which sometimes the word freedom is wrongly used in some parts of the world.  To be honest, I'm a bit surprised this thread is still going.  It feels like a badly conceived ode.  But many people were hurt on Bethesda, and I think the reason why this thread is still going.  I don't think the community there was very large, it might have been at some point years ago, but it was a vibrant one.  I was certainly not one of the active participants on there, but from what I've seen there were threads where I don't want think how many hours some people must have spent in there writing posts.

Point number five states "No posting of libelous claims against another party."  The definition of the word libelous according to a dictionary here states: "containing an untrue written statement that causes people to have a bad opinion of someone".  I'm reading up and trying to find somebody writing untrue statements against another party.  Seems to be general remarks, pretty self evident without needing further clarification, unless I'm missing something.  I'm all for having more rules, rules can lead to a path of inner freedom, but if somebody has overstepped it would be nice to understand where.

Thank you

It's worth knowing that at least one user in otherwise good standing was banned after deliberately scraping the site. That was Halgari, whilst "testing" Wabbajack, and when he queried the ban with me and I pointed him to the rules he admitted to not having read them and tried to use that as a defence. His subsequent rant on reddit about the modding community was due to a conversation he had with me over the rules the Nexus enforces regarding 3rd Party patches, rather than anything Arthmoor said to him.

In answer to your question, some of the posts in this thread have attributed certain characteristics or political beliefs to Bethesda's moderating team over and above a general level of carelessness or lack of competence. Since I doubt anyone here has access to the staff's PM's or other private communications they couldn't possibly know what political beliefs they held.

But hey, look, swearing (in moderation) is cool here. :woot:

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8 minutes ago, Sigurð Stormhand said:

But hey, look, swearing (in moderation) is cool here. :woot:

You misspelled swearing as sweating in your post above and I was laughing my ass off. lol

EDIT:  Well, that would be what I would be doing if I was to moderate.  I sometimes find myself mistyping subconsciously words based on what I'm thinking, so I just found it funny is all.  Probably not the case here, and why would it be if you are already a moderator, but I just found it funny. :D

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2 hours ago, Sigurð Stormhand said:

You'll notice that swearing is not specifically censured under the rules. You are perfectly free to swear, if you so wish, so long as you are not swearing at someone, i.e. attacking them, and it is not excessive, i.e. spam or harassment. Note also the prohibition on "adult material" that doesn't cover sweating but would, for example, cover swearing in the context of describing 'lewd acts'.

As a general rule, however, I'd suggest people refrain from swearing profusely and avoid some of the more taboo curse words in the English language. Nobody is going to punish you for saying "dick" but calling someone a dick is not going to go over well.

Basically, if you wouldn't shout it out in the middle of the street, best not to post it.

Edit: I studied medieval English at university, so I have a very good grasp of the history of curse words in the English language and I guarantee I know some you don't. I'll take a very dim view of any attempts to "get one by the censor."

Well I am not looking for a licence to swear, only to be able to use words in their proper context  that are also miss used as euphemisms for other things that in those contexts are offensive but when used in the proper manner are quite acceptable. here is another example,

image.thumb.png.c7d5f96e33b728cc9ff10920e4a69c19.png

In this context the word scat should be perfectly useable. Also it is used to describe a style of jazz singing. Unfortunately it is also used to describe a sexual act which for some people is offensive which I understand but used correctly it should not be miss understood. You should not worry that I would try to sneak obsolete Anglo Saxon expletives into forum what would be the point most would not understand them any way.

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The bottom line here is that Sigurd is right, calling the moderators on other sites fascists is going too far. It's fine to vent about it, but let's keep things civil while we're doing it.

Regarding language filters, we don't have one. Or rather, we do, because it's a feature of the package, but there's nothing in it. I like to think we have a much more relaxed approach to things and that the use of language won't be excessive because people simply don't need to use excessive language to make their points.

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5 hours ago, Sigurð Stormhand said:

Hi guys,

So, if we could just keep things on an even keel here. I understand that a lot of people are frustrated with Bethesda closing their forums and, by the looks of it, at recent moderation policies. We have no objection to you expressing some frustration but we'd ask you do so in moderation, lest we need to actively moderate.

I'm reposting the forum rules here for everyone, I'd specifically draw attention to point five on the list with regards to some of the things that have been said. Let me be clear, we expect all members to conduct themselves as though they are in 'polite company' and some of the posts in this thread have definitely skipped over that line.

This is the second time this thread has drawn my attention for less than positive reasons. Should I be drawn back here a third time it will be with a view to active moderation, which nobody here wants. Some members may wish to consider a little light editing, because if we do start strictly enforcing the rules we'll be going through all recent posts.

So let's everyone just take a breath, have a cup of tea, and relax.

Rules For Posting and Chat

By posting to this site, you agree to the following terms:

  • No hate speech. This includes but is not limited to: racism, sexism, and bigotry.
  • No harassment. This includes but is not limited to: "trolling", "flaming", and antagonizing others for your own amusement.
  • No promotion of illegal activities. This includes but is not limited to:
    • Pirated software, commonly referred to as "warez".
    • Child pornography.
    • Instructions for how to commit a crime.
    • Scams, pyramid schemes, or other means by which to cheat people out of money.
  • No adult material of any kind.
  • No posting of libelous claims against another party.
  • No spam. Generally defined as any unsolicited bulk advertisement.
  • No automatically generated posts. Including, but not limited to, the use of bots or other programs to post or handle registration.
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The administration reserves the right to make judgments on any material posted that does not clearly fall within one of these rules but is deemed to be offensive or falls outside the confines of general decency. Questions about this policy should be raised in private with the site administrators. Public discussion of administrative action is not permitted and any such topics raised will be immediately removed and the poster may face additional punishment.

Please note that these rules also apply to all other portions of the site as well and not just to forum posts, file comments, chat sessions etc. Yes, this includes PM's if one party to a private conversation reports the content to us.

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The files section of this site is intended as a resource to allow members to share their mods with each other and the community. As such, certain rules exist governing the distribution of these files from this site.

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  • You grant the site a non-exclusive license to distribute the material being uploaded.
  • You acknowledge that you are authorized to upload the material, either as the original copyright holder, an authorized agent of the copyright holder, or with the explicit permission of the copyright holder.
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  • No illegal content is to be uploaded. This includes but is not limited to:
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    • Child pornography.
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    • Spyware, malware, viruses, trojans, or tools used to hack into computers.
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Use of automated tools for scraping website content or downloading files individually or in bulk are expressly forbidden on AFK Mods. Any account found to be using tools of this nature will be immediately terminated without warning.

The administration reserves the right to make judgments on any material uploaded that does not clearly fall within one of these rules but is deemed to be offensive or falls outside the confines of general decency. Questions about this policy should be raised in private with the site administrators. Public discussion of administrative action is not permitted and any such topics raised will be immediately removed and the poster may face additional punishment.

Thank you Signore Stormhand:highfive:  This is a far more polite warning than anyone ever received from Bethesda.  That is all I will say about that.  I've had my little rant on the evils of the corporate mentality.  So, as long as there are no objections to anything I have said here, I am confident in what I have said.  I have a penchant for speaking the truth.  It is always my intent to stay within the rules.  Although, I do occasionally walk right up to the line and shout.  I generally prefer to compliment my friends over any sort of rant.  So, when I do have the occasional rant it is for good reason.  Yet, if I do cross that line I am always willing to retract and apologize.  It is never my intent to offend.  Sometimes the truth can hurt.  Some things are truly better left unsaid and there is a place for everything. 

I feel this is a safe place.  I thank you, Arthmoor and all who have made me feel at home here.  It's good to see so many of my dear friends here as well.  Thank you for this place of refuge and safety.  In that spirit, if I do overstep the boundaries please let me know.  I went three years on bethnet without a single warning only to be banned for a total misunderstanding then have it all overturned after explaining the situation.  I do not feel that same thing will ever happen here.  I do make every effort to maintain proper decorum in the forum treating this site similarly to being invited to a dinner party and a dear friend's home.  So, I do intend to be on my best behavior.  

I will be endeavoring to learn how to make my own mods in the very near future.  I finally have a decent gaming PC that can run Xedit and CK.  So, I do intend to learn and have quite a few friends who are willing and able to aid me in this venture.  I should have the new machine up and running very soon.  Living on social security disability benefits is financially challenging.  So, I've always tried to help out in the modding community in any way I am able.  I have tested well over 1500 mods now, write kind reviews, share ideas and have had the pleasure to work with some amazing friends on their mods.  So, I will still be doing all of that in addition to learning mod craft.

I just read Arthmoor's latest reply...  Please accept my humble apologies for my recent use of the words fascist and corpo-fascist.  I will refrain from using such verbiage going forward.  I was not directing those at anyone specific, just at the overall corporate PC mentality.  Yet again, it is never my intent to offend or break the rules.  So again, I do humbly apologize.  As soon as I read Arthmoor's message I knew I'd crossed the line.  I went looking for that post but can't seem to find it.  I'm pretty sure y'all deleted it but I just want to be sure.  Again, it is never my intent to offend.

Thanks again for everything and being so civil about all of this.  Please know that I am so totally over bethnet now and will no longer be engaging in such discussion.

Adventure on dear friends, Phat:highfive:

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Moderation in excess is a common complaint- and often blamed on robotic marauderators:

Moderation is not too small, nor too large, but medium, as medium is not mediocre.

Moderation is not too bright, nor too dark, but plain,- or explain.

Moderation is not too soft, nor too hard, as the correct assay is unassailable.

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8 hours ago, phatbassanchor said:

Thank you Signore Stormhand:highfive:  This is a far more polite warning than anyone ever received from Bethesda.  That is all I will say about that.  I've had my little rant on the evils of the corporate mentality.  So, as long as there are no objections to anything I have said here, I am confident in what I have said.  I have a penchant for speaking the truth.  It is always my intent to stay within the rules.  Although, I do occasionally walk right up to the line and shout.  I generally prefer to compliment my friends over any sort of rant.  So, when I do have the occasional rant it is for good reason.  Yet, if I do cross that line I am always willing to retract and apologize.  It is never my intent to offend.  Sometimes the truth can hurt.  Some things are truly better left unsaid and there is a place for everything. 

I feel this is a safe place.  I thank you, Arthmoor and all who have made me feel at home here.  It's good to see so many of my dear friends here as well.  Thank you for this place of refuge and safety.  In that spirit, if I do overstep the boundaries please let me know.  I went three years on bethnet without a single warning only to be banned for a total misunderstanding then have it all overturned after explaining the situation.  I do not feel that same thing will ever happen here.  I do make every effort to maintain proper decorum in the forum treating this site similarly to being invited to a dinner party and a dear friend's home.  So, I do intend to be on my best behavior.  

I will be endeavoring to learn how to make my own mods in the very near future.  I finally have a decent gaming PC that can run Xedit and CK.  So, I do intend to learn and have quite a few friends who are willing and able to aid me in this venture.  I should have the new machine up and running very soon.  Living on social security disability benefits is financially challenging.  So, I've always tried to help out in the modding community in any way I am able.  I have tested well over 1500 mods now, write kind reviews, share ideas and have had the pleasure to work with some amazing friends on their mods.  So, I will still be doing all of that in addition to learning mod craft.

I just read Arthmoor's latest reply...  Please accept my humble apologies for my recent use of the words fascist and corpo-fascist.  I will refrain from using such verbiage going forward.  I was not directing those at anyone specific, just at the overall corporate PC mentality.  Yet again, it is never my intent to offend or break the rules.  So again, I do humbly apologize.  As soon as I read Arthmoor's message I knew I'd crossed the line.  I went looking for that post but can't seem to find it.  I'm pretty sure y'all deleted it but I just want to be sure.  Again, it is never my intent to offend.

Thanks again for everything and being so civil about all of this.  Please know that I am so totally over bethnet now and will no longer be engaging in such discussion.

Adventure on dear friends, Phat:highfive:

 The post you made is here: 

As we said, you are entitled to your opinions, but we don't allow anything libellous or political on the site. Your post falls foul of both those rules, as does your subsequent post apologising, in fact. Referring to someone as "PC" as in "politically correct" in a negative context is making a political statement.

Someone who considers themselves "PC" could then read that, become offended, and then next thing is we have a flame war. Hence, we don't do politics here.

You can say "I think Bethesda's moderation of the site over the past few years has been crap."

You can't say, "I'm sick of Bethesda forcing their filthy Commie ideals on me through their moderation policies."

Like I said, best to stick to facts. You don't know what Bethesda's internal culture is like, from the few Devs I've interacted with at Zenimax etc. I'd say it's pretty chill. However, all sites, especially one representing a publisher, have to maintain very strict standards with regards to content or language because they pretty much have to maintain a "U" rating.

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9 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

The bottom line here is that Sigurd is right, calling the moderators on other sites fascists is going too far. It's fine to vent about it, but let's keep things civil while we're doing it.

Regarding language filters, we don't have one. Or rather, we do, because it's a feature of the package, but there's nothing in it. I like to think we have a much more relaxed approach to things and that the use of language won't be excessive because people simply don't need to use excessive language to make their points.

A much more adult way to deal with that sort of thing, well done others can ean from your policies.

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General comment…
I already stopped mentioning Bugfesta a little while ago as their antics no longer interest me, and they shall remain on my ignore list until TES6 comes out….so at least another half decade then!

Ref. Ikon and Libel: I am always careful here. Only false fact claims are actually libellous of course.  Opinion is not, providing one is clear it is opinion.  Neither is the truth, no matter how unpalatable the target party finds it, but sometimes a court must decide and no one wants that….Well, unless a large financial gain is envisaged hmmm.  
 

Forum rules and such….The bottom line is any forum has the right to restrict any activity within that the owner wishes, no matter how draconian or silly.  Most restrictions are really just a protection against legal action, but if the owner bans talk about tomatos then you don’t mention or allude to tomatos….Go find a tomato forum hmmm!

That’s all I can offer

A.

 

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2 hours ago, Sigurð Stormhand said:

As we said, you are entitled to your opinions, but we don't allow anything libellous or political on the site. Your post falls foul of both those rules, as does your subsequent post apologising, in fact. Referring to someone as "PC" as in "politically correct" in a negative context is making a political statement.

Someone who considers themselves "PC" could then read that, become offended, and then next thing is we have a flame war. Hence, we don't do politics here.

It's sad how politics have taken such a dominant part of our lives and has sneaked into our language.  Unfortunately the only way to fix this so that we can walk safely on neutral ground is to do exactly what Sigurd suggests and try to be conscious of it.  I know for sure that it has happened to me over the last few years, I often find myself going off into some political topic with my real life friends and although I understand that I'll not fix the world, voicing my opinion seems the right thing to do.  And all it does is add more noise to what feels an already noise polluted world.  Maybe we are headed into a unity, maybe we are destined for tribalism, but whatever the case may be it would be nice if we don't have to have this political environment follow us everywhere making its way into something as innocent as a gaming forum.  With that said, sorry if I've offended anybody.  I re-read what I just wrote couple of times, I cannot see it, but if it's there please let me know.

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12 hours ago, Sigurð Stormhand said:

 The post you made is here: 

As we said, you are entitled to your opinions, but we don't allow anything libellous or political on the site. Your post falls foul of both those rules, as does your subsequent post apologising, in fact. Referring to someone as "PC" as in "politically correct" in a negative context is making a political statement.

Someone who considers themselves "PC" could then read that, become offended, and then next thing is we have a flame war. Hence, we don't do politics here.

You can say "I think Bethesda's moderation of the site over the past few years has been crap."

You can't say, "I'm sick of Bethesda forcing their filthy Commie ideals on me through their moderation policies."

Like I said, best to stick to facts. You don't know what Bethesda's internal culture is like, from the few Devs I've interacted with at Zenimax etc. I'd say it's pretty chill. However, all sites, especially one representing a publisher, have to maintain very strict standards with regards to content or language because they pretty much have to maintain a "U" rating.

I took the liberty of changing my verbiage a bit without changing my intended meaning.  Regardless, I will not be revisiting that particular subject matter again.  Just thinking about it gives me a headache and a heartache.

The bottom line for me is that I feel safe and comfortable here among friends.  I do not wish to jeopardize that over my choice of verbiage.  So, I edited that comment.  Thanks for treating me like a human being.  That is how I treat others myself.  Thanks again for being so civil.  That was a real rattle snake of a topic for me.  Hope my edit has less poison in the teeth :)  I removed a good bit.  But, if it still bites too hard just let me know.  I'll chop it's head off before I do anything to make me unwelcomed here.  Humble apologies again for tracking my muddy boots on the carpet.  Hopefully my cleaned up version is better.  Going forward, I'll pass on the politics entirely.  The whole thing just gives me pain.

Adventure on dear friend, Phat:bunny:

PS:  Yes... Devs are cool:hug:  It's the corporate mentality in general that rubs me the wrong way with a vengeance.  Creative folks are my favorites.  I just don't get all that PC stuff, never will.  I prefer a kinder, gentler philosophy.  

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11 hours ago, Adella said:

General comment…
I already stopped mentioning Bugfesta a little while ago as their antics no longer interest me, and they shall remain on my ignore list until TES6 comes out….so at least another half decade then!

Ref. Ikon and Libel: I am always careful here. Only false fact claims are actually libellous of course.  Opinion is not, providing one is clear it is opinion.  Neither is the truth, no matter how unpalatable the target party finds it, but sometimes a court must decide and no one wants that….Well, unless a large financial gain is envisaged hmmm.  
 

Forum rules and such….The bottom line is any forum has the right to restrict any activity within that the owner wishes, no matter how draconian or silly.  Most restrictions are really just a protection against legal action, but if the owner bans talk about tomatos then you don’t mention or allude to tomatos….Go find a tomato forum hmmm!

That’s all I can offer

A.

 

I second that ignorance... wait... that sounded better in my head:rofl:

I am officially boycotting all political conversation.  There... that sounds better:wub:  Time to clean the house and set up the Millennium Falcon:banana:

Adventure on, Phat:blackhand:

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18 hours ago, phatbassanchor said:

I took the liberty of changing my verbiage a bit without changing my intended meaning.  Regardless, I will not be revisiting that particular subject matter again.  Just thinking about it gives me a headache and a heartache.

The bottom line for me is that I feel safe and comfortable here among friends.  I do not wish to jeopardize that over my choice of verbiage.  So, I edited that comment.  Thanks for treating me like a human being.  That is how I treat others myself.  Thanks again for being so civil.  That was a real rattle snake of a topic for me.  Hope my edit has less poison in the teeth :)  I removed a good bit.  But, if it still bites too hard just let me know.  I'll chop it's head off before I do anything to make me unwelcomed here.  Humble apologies again for tracking my muddy boots on the carpet.  Hopefully my cleaned up version is better.  Going forward, I'll pass on the politics entirely.  The whole thing just gives me pain.

Adventure on dear friend, Phat:bunny:

PS:  Yes... Devs are cool:hug:  It's the corporate mentality in general that rubs me the wrong way with a vengeance.  Creative folks are my favorites.  I just don't get all that PC stuff, never will.  I prefer a kinder, gentler philosophy.  

And if you DO need to vent you know where to sent that pm, lol. I too am trying not to talk about "that subject" as to just be here and among friends. I do check in here more often than it seems, just don't have much to post.

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3 hours ago, Handy6373 said:

And if you DO need to vent you know where to sent that pm, lol. I too am trying not to talk about "that subject" as to just be here and among friends. I do check in here more often than it seems, just don't have much to post.

Need to borrow LeBurns favorite toon for that.  Sam has a temper but vents it without saying anything offensive.

Hahahaha:rofl:

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8 hours ago, Handy6373 said:

I do check in here more often than it seems

I find my self jumping from here to Helga's discord server. Plus the Bethesda discord sometimes. (Discord isn't so bad - Beth just needs some more channels for Fallout 4 and Skyrim.)

---

Bugs Bunny, Looney Tunes were always on TV here in Australia growing up (70s,80s). Probably my most watched cartoon.

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