The Big Fallout 4 Thread

[InsanePlumber]

@Art
That's "question" asked by Roy is rhetorical.

[VaultDuke]

CK Beta and Mod integration:

https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/fallout-4-creation-kit/2016/04/26/114

And so it begins!

Edit: Lol, love the self referential humor in the trailer. Horse armor and more Garvey quests highlighted

edit 2: phew, and apparently, my Avatar comes out nicely in the "Forum" unlike in the upper right corner.

and jesus, if i just select english as language, please make it stick everywhere. Bunch of amateurs.

[Arthmoor]

And now it should also become clear why they chose the abomination that is Jive

[VaultDuke]

this was always my feeling, must have to do with the mod integration.

now i wonder:

how will load orders work on consoles?

[Arthmoor]

If you're in the current game beta, go to the mods menu. That's pretty much how consoles will be. That UI is so console-centric it hurts.

 

Note that (unless they changed it) you can't manage where the DLCs go if you have any.

[zilav]

So from this thread https://community.bethesda.net/thread/6130, quotes by smkviper "Uninstalling mods and continuing to use a save that depends on those mods is not supported" and "Removing scripts will not be reflected in saves, just like Skyrim".

Nothing has changed since Skyrim, and now they are adding ability to manage mods (even on consoles) right in the game. I'm not sure how this will end up unless they block loading of saves dependant on missing mods there.

[Arthmoor]

While true, they did institute some mitigating factors into Papyrus like Const properties. A Const property tells the game not to write the property into the save so it won't override things if you need to change the value in your ESP. Should help us cut down on the need for so much retro scripting in the UFO4P.

 

They also did away with the perpetual RegisterForUpdate() branch of functions and are using single loop timers that have to be renewed each time they update. So that's one less structural flaw to deal with too.

[VaultDuke]

Has the number of records, that merge at runtime been extended? That's the kind of stuff i was hoping to see.

[Arthmoor]

That kind of information is going to take a long time to figure out.

[InsanePlumber]

I hope that someone will take care Seriously this "interface to manage mods" in Fallout 4.

Fortunately, I was able to stop and not vomiting when I saw this Interface Abomination.

[VaultDuke]

FO4 has already made me bite the bullet and get a controller last year. I'm indifferent about that now. If a game's made for controllers, I use one.

[InsanePlumber]

FO4 has already made me bite the bullet and get a controller last year........

Never gonna be happen.

 

I'd rather not play the game than play with some limited substitutes of keyboard and mouse.

Fortunately, Beth does not enforce the use of controler only on PC, so far at least.

And I hope that it does not change. Unless a bunch of "Yes Man" circulating around the Beth office starts to bark differently.

[VaultDuke]

Well, all I can say is that after having given it a try I do not think any more, that a controller is per se an inferior input device. It is less precise and not as fast at aiming. It trumps k&m in jump and runs and fighting games though.

It is enjoyable to not have to search the right keys on the board, I have less issues hitting the wong button for accident with a controller and feel pressing a button is faster on controller (that that might change had I a keyboard as expensive). I feel more pulled into the world actually, even considering you sometime have to press some combos to make up for having less buttons.

While aiming is slow and turning less precise, moving is actually better with an analog stick. The rumble is kind of fun and the lockpicking in bethesda games also becomes somewhat enjoyable with 2 analog sticks and haptic feedback.

I know the menus suck, even with a controller. There can't be good menu controls for complex games with controllers, and it's doubly frustrating with a mouse, because there you would expect that good menu control should be possible. At least after the ck trailer we now know who at bethesda is responsible for UI design *eg*.

The game would be better with a mouse centric UI, no doubt, at least on PC. It could potentially be a better game if designed with k&m in mind from the start, but I consider that debatable, I wouldn't feel too sure about the right answer to that. All I know is that the only thing you can do about it is wait for mods or lament. Beth sadly won't change a thing.

All I'm saying is: In it's current state, I think you gain something in return for giving up that extra aiming precision by going controller, and the game, being designed around that feels more fluid and enjoyable in its current state that way.

[InsanePlumber]

"While aiming is slow and turning less precise, moving is actually better with an analog stick"

 

 

I have no problems when moving around in the game, I invested in very good IMO mechanical keyboard (ozone strike pro) and mouse (razer lachesis)

And I can at any time decide the sensitivity of my mouse, create macro(s) and assign key(s) for them, swap keys to what I like and that's why I stay at the keyboard and mouse.

Controller imposes on me too many restrictions.

Besides it also matter of auto targeting.    <-- (is it true, I ask because I've never played in a FPS on the console, played on the console maybe twice in a lifetime.)

[fireundubh]

Please test this.

[Kesta]

Anyone got validated informations on how mods are now loaded by the game (as of v1.5+) ?
 
Here is what I got so far (ignoring manually forcing the game to load plugins through TestFileXX ini settings like for Fallout4.esm) :
 
DLCList.txt is updated at runtime and list every plugin/master file present in Data\ (same as Skyrim) except Fallout4.esm

Plugins.txt is updated when going into the in-game mod manager. Plugins with a * are active, others are not. This way the load order is supposedly static even if you enable/disable plugins. However it seems that upon loading the game with disabled plugins (no *), this list is sorted with disabled plugins at the end. So the "static load order" thing is valid only if you don't exit the game. I guess it work better on consoles ?
 
Loose files overrides files in .ba2 (same as Skyrim) if the following INI setting

[Archive]
bInvalidateOlderFiles=1

is set in Fallout4(custom).ini (non-default behavior)

 

.ba2 archives with name that partially match a loaded plugin are loaded in the game. I didn't test that, the default separator is "<space>-<space". Can anything be put after this separator, or is there some rules (like only "Main" or "Textures") ? Can anything else be used as separator ?
 
.manifest files in <installfolder>\Mods are used to associate mods with their Bethesda.net data.

They're named by what seems to be an ID, and a number that seems to be an index. It look like the first mod you download have the "1" index, and the second one you download get this "1" index, and the previous "1" is renamed "2", etc... like log files.

It contain a list of files (plugins and archives) that are downloaded/removed when you download/delete the mod from the in-game mod manager. When you delete a mod's manifest, the game properly forgot it already has it (so you cannot delete it anymore, however you can re-download it as if it wasn't here), but the in-game manager still consider it's in your personal library, so this info is stored somewhere on bethesda.net

Edit : Ok, actually found the workshop on bethesda.net... jeez, this site is a labyrinth >_>

 

 

I didn't retry to load .bsa, but I seem to recall they disabled it completely a few updates ago ?

[Arthmoor]

Load order works more or less like it did in previous titles, except now plugins.txt has the * to indicate active, no * for inactive.

 

Whatever order you put stuff in plugins.txt is how the game will read it. I've not had it shuffle the order in any way unless it's been done from inside the game, and even then the active vs inactive will be listed in the order the in-game UI shows you.

 

In order for a BA2 to be valid, it has to fit one of the following two naming schemes:

<modname> - Main.ba2

<modname> - Textures.ba2

 

Look at how the two official DLCs are done. That's the only way archives will load now. Any other file names will be ignored, as I found out when packaging the UFO4P the first time.

 

BSA archives are no longer valid and haven't been for some time now. The game will ignore them entirely.

 

No idea about the manifest files, I didn't even notice them until you mentioned them

[fireundubh]

There might also be a way to specify the order in which scripts are loaded. This line appears at the top of the Papyrus log:

warning: Failed to load script order file - initial load time may be slow

[Kesta]

@Arthmoor: Thanks for the confirmations and infos. Not sure what's wrong with how my game manage its plugins.txt files though, I'm positive that it sometimes try to sort it with disabled plugin at the end.

 

@Dubh : Interesting, but I wonder what it is supposed to be used for.

[fireundubh]

Hai, guys! Why do I have to keep re-enabling my mods!? Should I search the forum for an answer? Could the answer be in one of the many threads on the first page named "disabling" something? I don't think I'll find the answer here or anywhere. Nobody had this problem before me. Please just help me. I don't know what to do. Tell me what to do. Why is this so hard? Why did they make this so hard? Is it intentional? I think it's intentional, guys. They want to make mods harder to use so they can sell more DLC, which are just mods anyone can make. Bethesda... Grrr!! Gamebryo! Can you make me a mod? It's really easy. Here's five paragraphs on what I want it to do. Can you make it now? Please? Oh, can you change Survival Mode back, too? And overhaul Workshop Mode? I'm not going to buy any more Bethesda games until I get Survival Mode back. What do you mean all I need to do is make plugins.txt not read only? That's stupid. You're stupid. I made it read only. I made all the files read only! The game should work! That's what I was told. Not by Bethesda, but I won't name who. Bethesda doesn't know anything about modding. They're awful, terrible people who can't make a game that works. Why would I listen to them anyway? Look what they did to Survival Mode. Guys, I can't connect to Bethesda.net anymore. It's broken! Oh, look, the people at the Nexus gave me the solution before any of you losers did. Big surprise there. Can you make me a mod? This is really hard. #TheVoices #Halp

[Arthmoor]

[Roy Batty]

#rekt

[fireundubh]

Interactive Clutter for Fallout 4. 28,882 newly interactive objects in this version! Probably my largest non-Papyrus undertaking. Still many more statics left to convert.

[Kesta]

Hoping Jon or anyone who seriously messed with the new ba2 format see this (dubh ? iirc you investigated .bsa in depth back in the skyrim days) :

 

Would you be able to give some pointers about the best way to package textures into .ba2 using Archive2 ? I'm guessing Archive settings can be left at default except for the Format that have to be changed to DDS, but what about File settings ? ("Compression : Default" sounds like a good pick, but I lack knowledge to make a choice for chunk-related parameters).

 

A "best practice" post or even a tutorial on the ck wiki would be welcome so textures packs creator can provide their mod in the most optimized fashion.

[fireundubh]

I was just exaggerating before, but someone really did just say "I guess this isn't a common issue" referring to the issue with plugins.txt being flagged read-only.