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Trails Of Cyrodiil Complete 0.8.b


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 Trails Of Cyrodiil Complete

 

In the real world, it's common to find foot trails through the wilderness. These often
begin as game trails made by wildlife, and over time grow into foot paths as humans
use them. Eventually, with enough use, they may become trails or proper roads.

In Cyrodiil we see none of this. There is a basic road network, but no wilderness trails.
There are many wide open wilderness areas with no paths of any kind. Out of the way
places such as abandoned forts would logically have had established trails at one time,
degraded by now for sure, but still there to find. 


Details

This is an overhaul of the Trails mods created by Malachi Delacot. It is my attempt to
improve things, while staying true to the original theme. Trails Of Cyrodiil Complete is
a single merged plugin that incorporates all of the previously separate Trails mods. 

It adds wilderness trails through many areas in the game. Giving a more realistic way
to reach many places that previously were simply cut off. There are basic tent camps
along some of the routes, with a simple sleeping mat, fire, and something to sit on.
These are ideal for resting up after that long dusty hike.

Routes have been altered from the original mods in key areas to avoid mod conflicts
wherever possible. Better Cities and the UL mods were the primary concern, but other
mods were taken into consideration also. Path grids have been added along the entire
length of all trails. This means they are now companion friendly. Landscaping has seen
some improvements, but not too much. Just smoothing some of the jagged places.

New extensions have been added in places where Forts or Ruins were near enough to
the original trails to make this logical. Many of these places are inhabited by something.
Going to and fro creates a path over time. Bushes which previously marked trail heads
have been replaced by small rock cairns. Signs have been added at intersections and
other logical locations. These point to nearby cities and towns, fort ruins, mines, and
even the major vanilla roads.


This mod is considered to be in BETA form.  

While it is playable at this stage, building, testing, and bug fixing are still actively in
progress. The main purpose for uploading at this point in time is to gain the benefit
of more eyes on. And hopefully garner feedback.

For those interested in testing something that is in development, and willing to give
honest constructive criticism, Welcome.


Locations

Many. This file is comprised of several previously separate trails. Below is an outline of
what areas are touched.


Bleaker's Way - The name says it all. Adds a trail into the village from the Silver Road. 

Central - Adds a new multi branched path across the South Central portion of Cyrodiil.
The main path stretches from just south of Skingrad all the way to just outside Bravil.
Roughly half way along that route, another path branches off North and connects to
the Red Ring Road at Lake Rumare.

East - Adds a new path from Cheydinhal which winds SouthEast through the Valus Mtns
all the way over to Malada.

SouthEast - Adds a new path taking off from Malada where the East trail ends. Works
it's way South by SE all the way down to Blankenmarch near Leyawiin.

West - Adds a new path with several branches leading West from Chorrol. One route
South from Chorrol to Skingrad. Another path branches off from that and heads West
branching again to connect with Kvatch near Gottshaw Inn.  

NorthWest - Adds a new path across the Colovian Highlands. Starts from Atrene Camp
just above Anvil. Heads NorthEast following the Brena River and meanders along the
highlands all the way to Hermaeus Mora's Shrine.

North Short Cut - Provides a quicker route between Bruma and Cheydinhal by adding a
new path from Fort Horunn over to the Silver Road.


Requirements

Oblivion patched to 1.2.0416


Install

1. Extract to your Oblivion Data folder either manually or using the mod manager of
    your choice. 

2. Set load order and play. 


Load Order

Suggest using BOSS to set load order. This file is already recognized.


Compatibility

There is now a separate file in the download containing newly created compatibility patches. All
include detailed read-me files with load order instructions. Be sure to read them. Some of the
patches are already included in the BOSS Masterlist. The rest will be added in soon. It's likely
there will be more added. I've covered what I knew about from user comments and my testing.


Mod Conflicts That Have Been Patched:

Archfiend
Better Fort Dirich
Better Fort Doublecross
Better Fort Naso
Billsburg (English v1.5.esp. Need to download the "Billsburg english 1_41" folder)
Elsweyr Anequina
Fighters Guild Quests
HESU Apple Hot Springs (To be released with HESU updates)
HESU Fairmere Village  (To be released with HESU updates)
Plentiful Priories
Rathunas
Roads Of Cyrodiil
Shadowcrest Vineyard
Sutch Village
UL Ancient Redwoods
UL Brena River Ravine
UL Cloudtop Mountains
UL Colovian Highlands
UL Eastern Peaks
UL River Ethe
Verona House: Bloodlines


Mod Conflicts that have been eliminated:

Better Cities, UL Bravil Barrowfields, UL Cheydinhal Falls, UL Fallenleaf Everglade, UL The
Heath, UL Panther River, UL Skingrad Outskirts, UL Snowdale, Knights of the Nine Revelations,
HESU White Rose River, Settlements of Cyrodiil - White Rose Farm, Lilyvale Town, UL Chorrol
Hinterland (and the Better Cities version of Chorrol Hinterland). 


Things I am on the fence about:

DLC Battlehorn Castle: There is a trail portion which runs just a short distance above the DLC
location. I really, really want to add a connector spur which links this trail with the Black Road
where it dead ends in the vanilla game. Unfortunately Battlehorn Castle makes cell edits much
farther out than is actually necessary. So I can't quite link them without knowingly creating yet
another conflict. I've run a trail spur in the direction of the Black Road...but cut it short for now.
 


Credits

Bethesda                 - for Oblivion and the CS
Tes4Edit                  - for cleaning the dirt from my mods
LHammonds           - for the read-me generator this file was based on
Malachi Delacot      - for the Trails of Cyrodiil mods, and allowing me to transform them  
Lougian                    - for the small rock cairns from "Various Resources"  
Me                            - for design and creation of the mod as it currently exists


Legal Stuff

Please do not upload these files to any other sites without my consent.


What's New in Version 0.8.b

Released

Compatibility patches. Created 17+ new patches which enable using the trails alongside conflicting mods. Re-worked normal map textures for all of the signs. Performed some more land maintenance on various portions of the trails. Etc, etc. 

Note: Since the initial upload on 09/26 I've made an update to one of the compatibility patches. The patch for Plentiful Priories now contains fixes for additional priory locations. Apologies but this info was not included by the OP who reported the conflict. I made a patch for what was reported and should have checked the entire mod contents to ensure that was the extent. My bad.

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Almost ready now with the next installment. Which will be v0.8. Have done a good bit more smoothing jagged areas on the trails. Some more grass removal. Moved placement for some of the signs so they are more visible. Reworked all of the normal maps for the sign textures so (hopefully) they are less shiny in bright sunlight. And created most of the necessary compatibility patches. Have three more for Unique Landscapes to finish up. With any luck can get this uploaded over the weekend. 

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Whelp...missed that goal. Thought I could use some older patches and convert them, thereby saving time. Compatibility patches are tricksy little things though, fool you into thinking something will be more simple than it is. But I have reached the last hurdle now. Today I began work on the compatibility patch for UL Eastern Peaks. Luckily I can (mostly) adapt the existing patch I made for an older version of Trails mods. Had to cut out several portions, those need rebuilding from scratch. But it saves me gobs of work vs creating an entirely new patch. Once I finish this, new files will be uploaded.

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Uploaded the v0.8 beta file. This update makes further improvements to the trails. Also introduces compatibility patches for mod conflicts that couldn't otherwise be overcome. See the description above for a list of compatibility fixes.

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Downloaded the file and so far looks great. But biggest problem I can see is that your ROC-TOCC & SV-TOCC patches essentially conflict with each other if you have both Shadowcrest & ROC installed. How much conflict also depends on their load order. If SV-TOCC is before ROC-TOCC, signpost is in wrong spot, small land tears by the camp (which is overrun by grass) where the N-S trail going S cuts off at the border of the change and trail going down from Ayleid well toward SV cuts off also at the change border. The ROC road that goes by Shadowcrest is also cut by by Halfway Inn and quite a bit E from Shadowcrest.

If ROC-TOCC is before SV-TOCC, looks pretty much the same as above except the signpost is in the correct place and the land tears smaller. So you may need to create another patch to allow for all three mods to work together. You may want to also consider where the Roadlight mod that goes with ROC puts their lampposts in that spot to avoid needing to make a patch for that too, as that mod is fairly popular too.

Other than the above, after walking a portion of a couple trails, about the only other things I'd suggest for future updates is that depending on one's grass density, it can be a bit hard at times to tell when a trail turns, etc. So placing some rock cairns at such turns would be helpful or at least making sure the center of the trail will never have grass growing on it.

I plan on eventually walking thru all the trails and should have some more feedback by then.

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53 minutes ago, Worldsong said:

Downloaded the file and so far looks great. But biggest problem I can see is that your ROC-TOCC & SV-TOCC patches essentially conflict with each other if you have both Shadowcrest & ROC installed. How much conflict also depends on their load order. If SV-TOCC is before ROC-TOCC, signpost is in wrong spot, small land tears by the camp (which is overrun by grass) where the N-S trail going S cuts off at the border of the change and trail going down from Ayleid well toward SV cuts off also at the change border. The ROC road that goes by Shadowcrest is also cut by by Halfway Inn and quite a bit E from Shadowcrest.

If ROC-TOCC is before SV-TOCC, looks pretty much the same as above except the signpost is in the correct place and the land tears smaller. So you may need to create another patch to allow for all three mods to work together. You may want to also consider where the Roadlight mod that goes with ROC puts their lampposts in that spot to avoid needing to make a patch for that too, as that mod is fairly popular too.

Other than the above, after walking a portion of a couple trails, about the only other things I'd suggest for future updates is that depending on one's grass density, it can be a bit hard at times to tell when a trail turns, etc. So placing some rock cairns at such turns would be helpful or at least making sure the center of the trail will never have grass growing on it.

I plan on eventually walking thru all the trails and should have some more feedback by then.

Hi Worldsong,

Thank you for the feedback. I'll take a look at the road lamps now that you mentioned it. I knew about the mod, but nobody mentioned it previously and wasn't at the forefront in my mind. Regards the patches. As my mentor is want to say "Not all patches can be used together". I may post a disclaimer to that effect on all my mods moving forward. :) 

It would as you've observed require a dedicated 3 way patch to fix those things. I knew going in that some additional patches may be requested, what is currently available is only first draft. Grass obscuring the trails is / will be an ongoing WIP. Funny thing grass, it can manifest slightly differently on every walk through an area. I don't want to completely remove all traces of grass, some folks seem to feel that backwoods trails should have a little bit. Adjusting and getting the right balance will simply take some trial and error. Thanks again for the insight.

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Very true, that about grasses. :) I've noticed that the grass can change a bit in the outside area of my Weye Blacksmith mod so that the anvil & trough might be surrounded by grasses sometimes but at other times not. I'll have to learn how to 'paint' that area with no-grass terrain to fix that. I suggested adding rock cairns at turns as trails in the past were marked in some way to let someone know they were still on the trail. This was usually by cutting a bit of bark off a tree, but since that's not possible in Oblivion, rock cairns will have to do.

One other thing I forgot to mention was that the Patch zip file could not be read correctly by MO2 for the data directory. I was not able to set a data directory in any way when installing that. I had to change that in its own directory before I could see the patches in MO2.

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I have no idea why that would happen with the zip file. I'm using the latest 7 zip and package all my files with the same. Idk.

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Ok, I've walked the Southeast Trail, and here's my feedback on that portion.

This is from the near Leyawiin end to the Malada end. First, there appears to be no campsites from the start to the campsite at the lake near the end. It's possible I may have missed seeing them somehow. If you count using the Bandit camps Marsh-Punk, Seran and Garnet camps as usable after killing the bandits, there weren't any that I could see from the start to Marsh-Punk at least.

It's also apparent that your new version deviates a bit from the map in the photos as the trail veers to the East from Seran Camp to Garnet Camp so as to go around the end of the water. This presents a problem, as a few spots cannot be traveled due to being beyond the game borders if you have it on. Using FormIDFinder, the affected cells are 44,-19; 45,-18 to 47,-14. You should add in the description that borders should be turned off.

Cell 46,-13 has a tree in the middle of the trail, along with a tree growing out of the giant rock.

Those are the only problems I've seen on the Southeast Trail. The only other thing I'd suggest for changes is the addition of single cairns at various points to mark the trail as I'd suggested in my previous post. I'd say at least one each cell or so. I did make a list of likely spots as I walked the trail and can PM you that list if you'd like to see that. It should be noted that the Cell #s I provided may not be quite right, as I've found that FormIDFinder doesn't always get the Cell # correct for the item it's identifying, but it's close enough.

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The original Trails mods had no campsites on that portion. Quite likely for the reason you stated, you run very near several bandit camps which can be used after clearing them. And you run very near a vanilla game Inn. Yes the new version deviates a LOT in that area. Although not to run around the water, it dodges around UL Panther River on that portion. It used to cross the river at the vanilla fort ruin and required a patch for the UL. The map is from the original trails mod so is approximate but not entirely accurate at this point. I'll look at possible solutions for making the trails more visible. That's going to be a test as we go and see what works.

I'm aware it goes outside the game borders and yes will add that to the description. It's easy to forget that people still play with them turned on. About that tree in cell 46, -13. Can you get me a FormID for it? I've checked that cell and all of the adjacent, not seeing anything out of place on my end.

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The SE trail was fairly easy to follow so you likely don't really need to add cairns to mark the trail, but I still suggest adding them as it makes it more 'real' so to speak. I did get the FormID for the tree (000153A3) but FormIDFinder does not give the Object ID which I found in the Construction Set: (0018C19C). When I looked in the CS, the tree was off to the side of the trail (correct cell # 46,-12) but for some reason has moved in game. Here's a screenshot:

2012798615_SETrailTrees.thumb.jpg.c8b5947cf0a920d367429f77375bc83f.jpg

The tree in the trail should be further back and to the left as in CS. But since I can still pass the tree, I'd say not to worry about it though I'd like to know why it moved?

Anyway, I started waking the East trail starting from Malada and found a conflict soon after. I use the Weye House of Healing along with other Weye mods, and it puts a Dremora structure where your trail turns. I've included two overview screenshots for your reference:

1629723468_WHHConflictOverview1s.thumb.jpg.45dccaed91e82be0ef2b3e9fe5e2444e.jpg

666150066_WHHConflictOverview2s.thumb.jpg.15366c9941ecc78512f3d8060d59ed24.jpg

The structure should be in cell 49,1. The black line is my suggested reroute of the trail to avoid the need for a patch. This also allows players to bypass the place if they have the mod and they're not ready to take on the trough Dremora lurking there. Might also want to put a danger sign where the trail splits. :)

WHH Conflict Overview1.bmp

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Oh thanks for the heads up on that conflict. Brasher's old mod was never previously reported as a conflict. The re-route is nice. Thx for that as well.

About that tree. Something in your load order has to override the change I made to that object. UOP? Bashed Patch? Another mod? Combination of the above? Idk. Will investigate as much as possible.

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Yeah, probably a conflict of some sort with that tree, but not gonna worry about it as it doesn't really affect gameplay. As for the HoH conflict, you may want to consider making a patch solely with that new trail portion as the original trail works fine if you don't have HoH?

I walked the rest of the East Trail from Malada to Cheydinhal along with the North Shortcut, so here's my feed back on those trails:

Aside from the conflict I reported with WHoH, the east trail I didn't see any problems except where the trail splits off to go to Botheia's Shrine. The trail you made cuts off a bit before the shrine at cell (37, 10). I'd also put a cairn just past that split on the right to indicate which way to go to continue on the East trail. You may also want to put a cairn at Kemal to show the trail continues past that. Again, I have a list of possible spots for cairns along the trail if you'd like to see that later.

As for the North Shortcut, I went from East to West. There is no double cairn at the East end where the signpost is, unlike the West end, which has a double cairn. Another list of spots for cairns available.

Saw no problems with the Bleaker's Way trail either, though you might want to consider moving the gravestones a bit so you're not literally walking on a grave to enter the town! :)

 

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Ok that cements it. I've had dialogue with a few others and you are the 3rd to mention that Bleaker Trail going through the graveyard. It's something I've also found a bit odd as a route into a village. And Roads of Cyrodiil uses nearly an identical approach. Going to re-route that in a future update. The split off for Boethia's Shrine also needs some refinement. Noted all of this for further consideration.

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Hey, I'd like to point out a potential conflict with a pretty popular mod The Ayleid Steps. Edited Path Grid 0008ADEA. 

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Oh, and another thing - you seem to like the Better Forts series. The author suggest to also use the "original" mod  Forts of Cyrodiil - Reimagined (exactly the Gold Coast file) which seems to be incompatible with ToCC.

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3 hours ago, Borys123 said:

Oh, and another thing - you seem to like the Better Forts series. The author suggest to also use the "original" mod  Forts of Cyrodiil - Reimagined (exactly the Gold Coast file) which seems to be incompatible with ToCC.

You referring to Assy McGee's mod? Yeah I actually had that in my notes to patch on the first run, and then overlooked it somehow. Fort Wariel is the conflict area for that one I believe. Will be sure to catch that and any others on the next pass. 

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Yeah, that's the one. By the way, could you tell me how bad are actually conflicts like this, I mean path grid conflicts? Better Forts series also sometimes conflicts with Arthmoor's Roads of Cyrodiil which prevents me from using every fort in my game. What's the worst that can happen if I run these without a patch? Visually everything looks OK.

I don't feel competent in CS enough to make a patch for this, editing these path grids looks like a total mess to me to be honest :D

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It varies case by case. Path grids look like a hot mess to the untrained eye. But are relatively simple in practice. You don't want the nodes or interconnecting lines running through solid objects. Or doing other "bad" things. Severity of a conflict will depend on 1) the differences in overlapping mods at the point of conflict, and 2) load order which determines which mod wins in-game. 

Severity can be very minor with only broken path lines across cell borders. Or some lines clipping objects, causing NPCs bumping into things. Or it can be a case of NPCs falling from the sky and dying on impact because they are trying to follow path nodes which are floating 50 meters above ground level. And yes I've seen cases like that where one mod overwrote landscape in a cell..but not the pathing. Which left the nodes floating way up. The NPCs would try to follow, causing them to teleport into the air and fall. Even minor problems are bad enough because it can prevent NPCs from running their AI packages. And because pathing isn't visible, you may not realize it's happening, until things don't work correctly. 

This is one of those unseen reasons why load order can't always fix things. Even though it may appear to do so. And it's far too often overlooked. 

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Quote

I don't feel competent in CS enough to make a patch for this, editing these path grids looks like a total mess to me to be honest

Borys123, if you haven't checked them out yet, I highly recommend reading and doing the tutorials related to the Construction Set on the Tesalliance.org website. I learned quite a bit from those as well as from other tutorials here by Arthmoor, et al. There's a good explanation for those pathgrids in those tutorials as well. I've used the lessons to to sometimes make minor changes to some mods, such as moving a lamppost to a better location due to conflict with another mod, etc. Pretty much things that don't really warrant a full-fledged patch mod but make things look better for you and your mix of mods. Since I use MO2 to install mods, I always add a note to such mods so I know which have been modified and what's been modified. I also save a copy of such modified mods for reinstallation purposes if the mod is old and has never been updated.

So don't be afraid to make such changes to mods to experiment, etc. once you've learned more about CS from the tutorials - just make sure to always save a copy of the original mod elsewhere (preferably in its original ZIP) so you can reinstall that if you do make a mistake with changing the mod and it messes the game up. And rebuild the Wyre Bash patch afterwards if the original mod was in that.

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Thank you guys for motivating me to delve into CS. I guess I'll start reading the guide and see what I can do. I hope I'll get a hold of it as I have an IT background.

Thanks again and sorry for off-topic talks on your mod page, mhahn123!

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Enjoy your time learning about modding Oblivion, Borys123! One other thing I forgot to mention: when you edit and save a mod, it will be put at the end of your mod load order. So before going to the Construction Set to edit a mod, make a note of where the mod is in your current load order so you can move it back to its correct place in the load order after closing the CS without needing to resort your load order in BOSS.

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Ok, back to the topic...

Walked the Colovian Highlands trail, so here's my feedback: Went from the North end to the South end. A few border problems at points along the trail, like with the SE trail. One particularly annoying spot though was the campsite at cell (-37,10) - you can walk past it, but the camp itself is just outside the game border so you can't use the tent! The spur trail at (-25,24) peters out a bit before the double cairns meet the road going past Battlehorn. For the campsite at (-28,21) I suggest adding a cookpot hanging from the pole above the fire.

The biggest problem I found was a conflict with the White Rock village mod (45759 on Nexus) starting at cell (-33,16). That was easily fixed by moving the WR mod to before TOCC, as BOSS had put it after TOCC. You may want to consider adding a patch to include a spur trail down to White Rock and the Depleted Mithril Mine of that mod. May also want to add a spur trail to the Infested Mine there as I didn't see one. Later one, a trail is suggested to the Lord Stone at (-44,8).

I use the Sutch Village mod, so I have the patch for that & TOCC installed. For that, there's a signpost by the double cairns at (-49,3) that only has a pointer for Chorrol. A pointer for Anvil should be added. Also, it's not quite easy to spot where the trail continues past the Malacath Shrine, so I suggest a cairn there.

That's pretty much it for the Colovian Highlands trail - didn't see any conflicts with the Colovian Barrow Mounds mod I have. Next post will be for the West trails.

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Now for the West trails. In tracing it, I noticed the path does not quite follow what's shown on the image map, so that will need to be corrected there. For example apparenty the part going from the Brina Cross Inn to the Kvatch spur is now gone, with the Kvatch spur now being the southern end of the trail and ending by Gottshaw Inn instead of further south by the Kvatch road.

Again, went from the North end to the South end. First, I suggest a set of double cairns at the campsite in (-20,12) to show where the spur to Skingrad splits off and where the trail continues toward Kvatch. Part of the bench at the campsite is 'biting' into the tree. The beginning of the Skingrad spur may need to be cleared up a bit as it was a bit hard to make out the trail for a bit after its start.

Another conflict I found was at cell (-23,12) as the trail disappears there by the Wayshrine. At first I thought it might be a conflict with the Colovian Barrow Mound nearby, but turns out it's a conflict with the Enhjanced Cyrodiil-Wayshrines mod (44737 on Nexus). ECW places a small pool of water right were the trail would have gone through. Simply moving the mod to before TOCC would not work as I've found previously with installing ECW that it has problems that's only fixed when it's placed before the Bashed Patch. Here's a screenshot from the Construction Set showing both mods and a black line where the trail can be altered to avoid needing a patch for ECW:

530487845_TOCEWSConflictBothCS.thumb.jpg.3010d405909ba244783b3dbef3966e1c.jpg

ECW has over 6K downloads, so probably worth making that alteration.

A minor problem was a floating tree in cell (-26,9). I confirmed it was showing in the mod in Construction Set. For near the end of the trail, you may want to add trails from the Fort Wariel spur trail in (-39,1) to Trumbe and Brittlerock Cave. The only other thing you may want to consider fixing is that some of the pointer signs that were added seemed a bit too bright to me as compared to the town pointer signs and posts. Makes them look rather new.

That's it for the West trail. As usual I have a list for possible cairn locations for the CH and W trails should you want to look at those. I'll likely be walking the Central Trail from all its end toward the Shadowcrest Winery conflict that I've mentioned before tomorrow.

 

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Hey Worldsong,

Good stuff. Don't want to discourage further messages, but I realized we are using up a lot of comment space. Can you PM this stuff to me moving forward?

1. Demo map screenshot should probably be disregarded at this point. The mod is altered in so many places that the old map really is just for an approximate visual guide. Most likely I won't be updating it to be fully accurate. It would be very time consuming to do so. And yes the old Brina Cross leg was culled due to numerous mod conflicts it created. That and it was just redundant with the Colovian trail running very near the same area.

2. Wasn't aware of that particular Wayshrine mod. There are several of those types of mods. Noted for future reference. I'm afraid your trail re-route won't work though without a patch. If the mod edits landscape in that cell by adding a pool, and it wipes a portion of trail in doing so, a patch is necessary to fix it. Two mods can't edit landscape in the same cell. 

3. Floating trees are a feature, not a bug. And yes multiple, I spotted two. Noted for fixing.

4. Pointer signs? Do you mean the scrap wood sign I used for the mines? If so I'll have to dumb down the normal maps some more. I actually did that twice already. Time for round three.

5. Please do PM your other suggestions. Happy to review and possibly implement some of them.

6. Regards Shadowcrest Vineyard. There is a patch available for that conflict in the download just in case you didn't know.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

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