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Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch [USLEEP] [OLD TOPIC]


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Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch [uSLEEP]



As many of you may remember, last year around this time we conducted a poll on whether or not it was the right time to consider unifying the unofficial patches into a single package. At the time, about 25% of those who responded to the poll were still in a position where they did not have all 3 DLCs for the game. So we decided against merging everything at that time.

Fast forward to today, it's become quite clear that that 25% is far less than it was, and more and more people have been asking when we're going to be doing this. This post is your answer. :)

Shortly after the release of USKP 2.1.3, we will begin the process of unification to merge the vanilla USKP plus all of the DLC patches into one all encompassing mod, which will be known as "Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch", or USLEEP for short. A mouthful, but a catchy acronym.

We have decided that the best course of action will be to rename the esp to match the mod's updated name. It will remain an ESP file flagged as an ESM as that makes the process of working on it less of a hassle for us and as has been proven, the game, CK, and existing mod management tools are completely fine with it. We have also verified that switching the ESP name will not cause any scripts modified by the project, or added new to the project, to throw Papyrus errors. The only side effect will be that the retroactive update scripts will all run again. That shouldn't cause any problems though and we'll make sure any scripts manipulating formlists are safeguarded against generating duplicate references in them.

 

The hi-res DLC patch will remain a separate entity as many people do not use it for one reason or another and it's not considered part of the "Legendary Edition" of the game either.

 

We estimate the time needed to do the work of merging everything together and then putting it through testing will take a few months. So we are not anticipating another release for the project between now and November while this work is done. Time commitments to other things are the main reason for this, so we figure giving ourselves enough time for that is prudent. Plus this also gives enough warning ahead of time that we're going forward with this.

As many existing issues as we could resolve for the 2.1.3 release cycle have now been cleared from the tracker and any issues remaining that are not feasible to fix have been closed appropriately. Any new issues submitted after this point will need to wait until the unification process is complete before we will even begin to consider touching them. Please, DO report them, just don't expect action for awhile. If it should become necessary (God forbid) for a hotfix to be released before the unification is done, then that will be the ONLY issue that will be addressed and will be handled only in whatever patch it may affect.

After the unification process is done, the existing separated patches will no longer receive updates. The files will remain up in their existing entries but will be frozen and the comment threads closed where possible. All future support will be handled on a single file entry for the unified project on each site it is hosted on.

Mods which rely on using the USKP/UDGP/UHFP/UDBP are strongly urged to make plans to switch over to the new master file when it's ready. Other mods which import fixes from the unofficial patches are also strongly urged to make sure they are up to date before November. It would also be best if any translated versions of the patches out there get synced up with 2.1.3 so that as many people as possible will have access to them while the unification is underway.

We will have a testing release at some point before the unified patch is ready to go live. The usual cautions against using beta copies on saves you intend to keep will apply. That step is going to last no less than a full month so that there's time enough to shake out any bugs that result from the process.

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Some of you may also be wondering what this means for my own projects that make use of the unofficial patches as masters. These will all be converted as needed to run using the unified patch file. Post-unification, I will not release mods that rely on the individual patch files. So things like Bring Out Your Dead, Cutting Room Floor, Ars Metallica, and other stuff, will all get taken care of on whatever schedule fits best as the process moves along. In the case of Cutting Room Floor, this will also open the door to adding cut DLC content that's been getting logged to the tracker. So it'll be worth it :P Once I make these transitions, any old copies relying on the old patch files will be frozen.

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Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch [uSLEEP] As many of you may remember, last year around this time we conducted a poll on whether or not it was the right time to consider unifying the unoff

Benefits for players is that there are some bugs that can't be fixed because the other dlc+patches overwrite it. Some of them can be fixed cleaning DLC but iirc there was some that cannot be fixed at

That 25% poll figure is also more than a year old and is substantially less than that at this point. IMO, most anyone left who hasn't bought the DLCs are likely to remain permanent outliers and I'd es

I was against it last year (and not because I didn't have all DLC), but I changed my mind some months ago. If it is the only way to fix some remaining bugs and the incompatibilities between the official DLC (seriously, Bethesda...), it is welcome. It seems that I will have to update Boethiah's Bidding when it arrives, but that should take like less than one minute.

I used to think that USKP would keep its file name and just the others would disappear.

 

I wonder, though, how much time it will take until you receive the "love" from the Hearthfire-haters crowd :P

Or the people that will have the old patches running along the new ones, I bet that there will be at least a few of those.

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I wonder, though, how much time it will take until you receive the "love" from the Hearthfire-haters crowd :P

Or the people that will have the old patches running along the new ones, I bet that there will be at least a few of those.

Well, bugger me sideways. Do I really have to buy the house mod in order to use the updated unofficial patch?

There you go.

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I was against it last year, part of the 25%, and I still am. Current game? No DLC at all. Wanted a change and a vanilla game (or close to at any rate). So I'll be stuck on whatever versions are current at the time with no possibility of future updates. Better go stock up on lube...

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I must have missed that poll.

 

This seems like a terrible idea.

 

Perhaps I am missing something, but I predict that this will do absolutely nothing of any value at all but will simply break hundreds upon hundred of mods that work perfectly at the moment but just won't get updated for USLEEP. I use quite a lot of older mods and so do thousands of other people.

 

There are still people who have not, and will not, and who never, ever will want to buy Hearthfires. Hell, there are people who have Dawnguard but neither HF or DB, or DB but not HF and DG. So they will never, ever again get an update for Skyrim or Dawnguard and/or Dragonborn?

 

So, would this impact on them ever getting an update for SkyUI and so on?

 

And what is it for? So that Obsessive-Compulsionists have 3 fewer esps in their list for the Bashed Patch? So they can run more than 255 mods at once? I don't recall any technical advantages being mention in the OP.

 

Arthmoor, are you really sitting around humming and hawing, desperately looking for something with which to occupy your time?

 

So, you won't be Modding for Fallout 4, then?

 

At least the current versions of the four separate patches are going to remain up. But, of course, that means that people who keep using them will never get an update to any of Arthmoor's other mods, and will not be able to use any new mods he makes.

 

 

As I say, perhaps I missed something, but what is the purpose of this again? 

 

 

?

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I must have missed that poll.

 

This seems like a terrible idea.

 

Perhaps I am missing something, but I predict that this will do absolutely nothing of any value at all but will simply break hundreds upon hundred of mods that work perfectly at the moment but just won't get updated for USLEEP. I use quite a lot of older mods and so do thousands of other people.

Which, honestly, is not a valid reason to hold back progress on this. Many of those same mods have been idle for 2+ years already and will break the USKP as it stands anyway because they're overriding edits made to fix things and haven't been updated. The situation doesn't really change.

 

There are still people who have not, and will not, and who never, ever will want to buy Hearthfires. Hell, there are people who have Dawnguard but neither HF or DB, or DB but not HF and DG. So they will never, ever again get an update for Skyrim or Dawnguard and/or Dragonborn?

Which is why the old patches will remain up.

 

So, would this impact on them ever getting an update for SkyUI and so on?

No. SkyUI doesn't have any dependencies on the USKP, or anything else. It's a masterless ESP file and we've deliberately avoided UI changes in favor of it for the life of the project so far. That's not going to change.

 

And what is it for? So that Obsessive-Compulsionists have 3 fewer esps in their list for the Bashed Patch? So they can run more than 255 mods at once? I don't recall any technical advantages being mention in the OP.

Because there are no technical advantages from the standpoint of how many mods one has. This has nothing to do with that. If people crying about their bashed patches was the only reason for it, we wouldn't be bothering.

 

Arthmoor, are you really sitting around humming and hawing, desperately looking for something with which to occupy your time?

Quite the opposite actually. Managing things as 4 separate entities is consuming a lot MORE time than we'd like and is becoming more and more prone to errors in getting things set for release targets.

 

So, you won't be Modding for Fallout 4, then?

I don't even know if I'm buying the game yet, much less modding it. I'm not sure what that has to do with this :P

 

At least the current versions of the four separate patches are going to remain up. But, of course, that means that people who keep using them will never get an update to any of Arthmoor's other mods, and will not be able to use any new mods he makes.

I should clarify that it won't be ALL of my stuff, just the logical ones like CRF and BOYD that already depend on the patch as masters. Anything that doesn't won't be affected by this.

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I suspect now that it is really happening it might be wise to post a pros and cons list to make it easier for people to grasp why this is beneficial.

 

 

 

Pros:

No more need for multiple development folders.

No more unresolvable conflicts.

One unified patch that only takes up one ESP slot.

Cons:

Not everyone has every DLC yet.

A significant amount of work to properly merge everything into one unified ESP.

Support on the existing separate patches would be frozen except for hotfix issues.

Extremely likely that the game could get confused when ripping out the unsupported DLC patches when a change like this is made.

This is from post #1 in the original thread discussion thread from last year. But since the decision has already been made, there's probably not much point in rehashing all of that.

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+ Pro : No more mods trying to be "USKP Compatible", but actually only being tailored for USKP and overriding UDGP/UHFP/UDBP changes (happens with UDGP mostly).

 

 

BTW, good luck with the merge, kinda ambitious if you ask me, but eh, same goes for the whole project :P (Oh, and thx for the work over the years in general... I'm not sure I ever took the time to say this properly).

 

 

Though as it have been suggested here and there on various forums, keeping "Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp" as plugin name might help prevent mods old mods CTDing, even if they still override USKP fixes.

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Extremely likely that the game could get confused when ripping out the unsupported DLC patches when a change like this is made.

We've also since found this particular issue won't be a problem since the scripts are tagged by name in the saves and Papyrus doesn't even bat an eye at changing the filename on the esp. So that's one less con.

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TBQH it's a good move as it saves you guys time and space, and clutter.
For me, and maybe others who aren't so keen on playing the DLC- it's not just the money, so much as the diskclog and the growing number of great mods and other games mouldering on the HDD.
Haven't given up on the idea of a Xedit script that nukes all DLC related content in a patch. It'll be awkward if there is future overlapping in fixes for DLC and Vanilla, if there is more to it than just deleting records missing masters, and the prospect of little or no support from the team on a modified patch.
One has to weigh all this up against the pain of acquiring the DLC and of course, continued full support for USLEEP.
Thoughts?

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2.1.3 is totally fine as is (or as will be). If you do carry around with you a ton of old and unsupported mods, why not stick to 2.1.3, too? Does it matter in your outdated load order? Probably not.

If however, you do care about keeping your old mods and keeping an up to date USLP, then you need to learn to use Xedit to do some stuff anyway. I suggest learning to clean and update your old and buggy unsupported mods is the more fertile approach, than to learn how to butcher USLP.

In my load order I expect to take no more than 15 minutes to get all my old mods (from myself or others, that I maintain in private) up to speed.

Now you might counter: What if you have more mods that are unsupported and need updating? To which I might reply: When did you last update/maintain them yourself? Because if they are that old, you should be in the process of maintaining them since years already. If you do not do this already, then I guarantee you, that those mods introduce more bugs/overwrite more bugfixes than any USLP will ever fix compared to 2.1.3. Which brings the argument full circle:

Update the mods (not USK/LP) yourself, or be happy with 2.1.3. If you have been happy with a bunch of bugs from old mods so far, you will be happy with the bunch of bugs left over by 2.1.3, too. Any other solution is ineconomical. Updating USKP yourself is more work than updating a bunch of mods.

"The pain of acquiring" DLC is even less work, if you don't have them. And the DLCs are integrated into the Skyrim world seamlessly, there is no valid gameplay argument against installing them. it's not like they magically transport your PC to a new landscape or something.

Once the USLP is released, Skyrim is 4 years old, and there will have been a 1.5 year warning to get to grips with the "full" Skyrim experience. No pity from me. Most of us are patiently awaiting to finally get some legendary issues fixed. Anyone else still has access to tens of thousands of fixes with 2.1.3(b probably :P).

edit: thanks Screwball

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ah yeah, now that Fallout 4's release date has been revealed, how could we survive almost a month without Bethesda release date rumors :D Someone said he overheard Pete Hines say something to someone at E3 that might be interpreted as "Elder Scrolls 6: Argonia (...or Redguard) will definitely be released in 2016", if by a wide stretch. All ES6 rumors ever summarized. Links to a tweet or it didn't happen :P

As for the UOP: I bet I can, by just looking at the patchlog, tell when Arthmoor took the project over. Which, you know, he did for Skyrim a long time ago. Meaning: I expect the USKP to be closer to completion than the UOP was in 2009.

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Quote

Extremely likely that the game could get confused when ripping out the unsupported DLC patches when a change like this is made.
 

We've also since found this particular issue won't be a problem since the scripts are tagged by name in the saves and Papyrus doesn't even bat an eye at changing the filename on the esp. So that's one less con.

 

I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly - are you talking about switching from the separate UP plugins to the new unified USLEEP plugin, and then loading an old save made when the load order still had the separate UP plugins?

 

Please tell me this is not something being recommended, because from everything I've read and my own personal experience, the change in the plugin reference index for all mods past the .esm section of the load order could cause loads of problems with custom added quests and other scripted elements.

 

By going from up to 4 UP patch plugins down to 1, you are in essence removing plugins, and again, from what I've read, the general consensus on this is that it is not a good idea to load an old save after removing plugins (and this includes running through the so-called "clean save" process).

 

Have I misunderstood something here?

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Mods internally track their form IDs with the 6 digits that follow the index field. There should be no damage done by losing the plugins from the load order. Removal of plugins happens all the time, and the ONLY reason it's not generally a recommended way of handling things is because the scripts that are associated with those plugins are being ripped from the game and leaving behind vestiges of themselves. The game and the CK both have internal consistency handlers for situations like this and will deal with it accordingly.

 

That said, it will be quite thoroughly tested before we even let it out for public betas and if it's found that something will go dreadfully wrong with the process we'll definitely change our recommendations based on that. It's also entirely possible that it may be catastrophic enough to torpedo unification entirely, which would truly suck, but we won't know this until the process is complete enough to be put through testing.

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Mods internally track their form IDs with the 6 digits that follow the index field. There should be no damage done by losing the plugins from the load order. Removal of plugins happens all the time, and the ONLY reason it's not generally a recommended way of handling things is because the scripts that are associated with those plugins are being ripped from the game and leaving behind vestiges of themselves. The game and the CK both have internal consistency handlers for situations like this and will deal with it accordingly.

 

That said, it will be quite thoroughly tested before we even let it out for public betas and if it's found that something will go dreadfully wrong with the process we'll definitely change our recommendations based on that. It's also entirely possible that it may be catastrophic enough to torpedo unification entirely, which would truly suck, but we won't know this until the process is complete enough to be put through testing.

 

Yeah, I was aware of the "relative" FormID references being taken care of when a plugin shifts to a new index slot. And I have no doubts that you and the UP team can build sanity checks and "clean up" routines for any orphaned scripts that would result of the separate to unified plugin update.

 

What I'm more concerned about is other mods that have scripts which don't handle the index change well. I've personally seen some mod-added quests "broken" in one way or another due to following the "clean save" steps recommended for some mod updates. I was able to pinpoint some the issues to orphaned script data using flexcreator's Savegame script scalpel tool, and found that even after the mod in question was moved back to the same load order index, slot, the script wouldn't recognize the data stored in the save and the related quests did not work as expected. The only workaround I could come up with to avoid this happening is to make a blank "placeholder" plugin to take up the same load order index slot whenever I need to remove a mod's plugin to update using the "clean save" steps. This allows for all other plugins to retain their load order index slot across all saves created while I'm updating a mod's plugin.

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say here is that it seems a good idea to include a disclaimer that starting a new game is recommended "for best results" after switching from the separate UP plugins to the new unified one.

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