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Expanded Towns and Cities SSE 0.7


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About This File

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Expands upon existing towns. So far includes: Darkwater Crossing, Dawnstar, Kynesgrove, Morthal, Riverwood and Rorikstead. Available in "Complete" - All the towns packed together; and, "Modular" - Individual towns à la carte versions. (Karthwasten and Morthal are currently in progress.)

Additional screenshots (slideshows for each town, and for some of the optional features) are available HERE.
File size was too large to post on the mod page. 

 

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Many thanks to the respective creators for making these translations possible. 

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(Click the images to be taken to their pages.) 

 

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Alright, so - What exactly are you getting?

While the new version is certainly in the spirit of its predecessor, it is NOT the same mod. So if you came here expecting identical towns, with identical people and identical layouts – Prepare yourself, because you’re about to be sorely disappointed lol. This was built from the ground up, taking into account everything I have learned in MY CONSIDERABLE EXPERIENCE AND/OR WISDOM (jokes, I clearly have neither of those things) to try and give you and me and everybody a much better mod overall. 

I made a lot of mistakes with the old ETaC. Things that, given the opportunity (and a time machine), I would never had done in the first place, things of which we shall never speak again. Mostly for my own sanity. As it turned out, I now HAVE that opportunity to build the mod I’d always wanted to build, so buckle up mod-friendos, we’re going to go on a little adventure together. Which brings me to…

List of changes!

As for specifics, I’ll be omitting the small "aesthetic" changes from these list (i.e. clutter, trees, wildlife, lanterns, blah blah) as identifying every single barrel I’ve moved and tree I’ve added would be a huge enormous pain in my arse. (Read: am lazy! HI!) Anyway. (Those things excluded) here's what you get...

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- Added 6 new houses.
- Added 9 new NPCs. 
- Added new custom dialogue for said NPCs
- Added various notes and journals and such and things.
- Added a general store.
- Added an inn/tavern for the sleeping and the consuming of the wines.
- Added a shrine and alchemy bench for the healing of your poor diseased self.
- Added a well for drinking water.
- Added exterior chimneys for houses because fireplaces.
- Added additional farms, farmers, fishermen, and hunters.
- Added additional woodcutters; And, NPCs will collect firewood for their houses daily.
- Added ownership data to all the random exterior items/barrels/etc.
- Added occlusion planes to houses / walls / etc. for better performance.
- Added smoke / light to forges and smelters. 
- Added armor bench and sharpening wheel to blacksmith area.
- Added horse marker for player horse.
- Added some vanilla options that were available in other towns, but not here for whatever reason...
- Like the gathering of wood and food for those of you who had fervently wished you'd been born into a life of farming.
- Gave vanilla homeless NPCs homes (Derkeethus, Sondas, Tormir and Hrefna.)
- Derkeethus Quest - People in Darkwater will now react to Derkeethus' absence/return.
- Derkeethus Quest - Added the ability for talking to the aforementioned people to start his quest.
- Derkeethus Quest - Derkeethus' house will reflect whether or not he's living in it.
- Changed Verner's house exterior mesh to match interior layout.
- Changes to guards' and other NPCs' patrol routes so they make more sense with the new town layouts.
- Made extensive changes to town layouts, landscape, navmesh and NPC AI *

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- Added 7 Houses
- Added 18 new NPCs.
- Added new custom dialogue for said NPCs.
- Added split-level miners' lodgings for Iron Breaker and Quicksilver miners so they aren't stuck living in the mines.
- Added Temple of Dibella (with a shrine for the healing of your poor diseased self).
- Added East Empire Warehouse at the docks.
- Added general store.
- Added fishery.
- Added stables (stores horses only; no purchasing).
- Added horse marker for player horse.
- Added seagulls and rats to dock area.
- Added various notes and journals and such and things.
- Added a well for drinking water.
- Added exterior chimneys for houses because fireplaces.
- Added additional farms, farmers, fishermen, and hunters.
- Added additional woodcutters; And, NPCs will collect firewood for their houses daily.
- Added ownership data to all the random exterior items/barrels/etc.
- Added occlusion planes to houses / walls / etc. for better performance.
- Added smoke / light to forges and smelters.
- Added -OPTIONAL- wall around the city. (Can be toggled on / off via MCM or the ETaC Config prompts.)
- Moved the Kahjiit caravan outside ETaC's added wall. (This also required some minor changes to their AI.)
- Fixed covered walkways not using the snow versions.
- Gave vanilla homeless NPCs homes (Abelone.)
- Changes to guards' and other NPCs' patrol routes so they make more sense with the new town layouts.
- Made extensive changes to town layouts, landscape, navmesh and NPC AI *

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- Added 5 new houses.
- Added 9 new NPCs.
- Added new custom dialogue for said NPCs.
- Added a general store.
- Added a blacksmith.
- Added an inn/tavern for the sleeping and the consuming of the wines.
- Added a shrine for the healing of your poor diseased self.
- Added a well for drinking water.
- Added exterior chimneys for houses because fireplaces.
- Added additional farms, farmers, fishermen, and hunters.
- Added additional woodcutters; And, NPCs will collect firewood for their houses daily.
- Added ownership data to all the random exterior items/barrels/etc.
- Added occlusion planes to houses / walls / etc. for better performance.
- Added smoke / light to forges and smelters.
- Added horse marker for player horse.
- Added some vanilla options that were available in other towns, but not here for whatever reason...
- Like the gathering of wood and food for those of you who had fervently wished you'd been born into a life of farming.
- Changes to guards' and other NPCs' patrol routes so they make more sense with the new town layouts.
- Made extensive changes to town layouts, landscape, navmesh and NPC AI *

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- Added 6 new houses.
- Added 8 new NPCs.
- Added new custom dialogue for said NPCs.
- Added a general store.
- Added a shrine for the healing of your poor diseased self (in Dravynea's House.)
- Added an enchanting table (in Dravynea's House.)
- Added a well for drinking water.
- Added exterior chimneys for houses because fireplaces.
- Added additional farms, farmers, fishermen, and hunters.
- Added additional woodcutters; And, NPCs will collect firewood for their houses daily.
- Added ownership data to all the random exterior items/barrels/etc.
- Added occlusion planes to houses / walls / etc. for better performance.
- Added smoke / light to forges and smelters.
- Added horse marker for player horse.
- Added some vanilla options that were available in other towns, but not here for whatever reason...
- Like the gathering of wood and food for those of you who had fervently wished you'd been born into a life of farming.
- Gave vanilla homeless NPCs homes (Dravynea, Roggi, Gemma and Ganna.)
- Dravynea is now marriage-able.
- Roggi is now marriage-able.
- Changes to guards' and other NPCs' patrol routes so they make more sense with the new town layouts.
- Made extensive changes to town layouts, landscape, navmesh and NPC AI *

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- Added 7 Houses
- Added 14 new NPCs.
- Added new custom dialogue for said NPCs.
- Added various notes and journals and such and things.
- Added Temple of Stendarr (with a shrine for the healing of your poor diseased self).
- Added general store.
- Added fletcher.
- Added fishery.
- Added butcher.
- Added winery.
- Added horse marker for player horse.
- Added hawks.
- Added various notes and journals and such and things.
- Added some fun new Carl-themed spells to Falion (by jknjb.)
- Added a well for drinking water.
- Added exterior chimneys for houses because fireplaces.
- Added additional farms, farmers, fishermen, and hunters.
- Added additional woodcutters; And, NPCs will collect firewood for their houses daily.
- Added ownership data to all the random exterior items/barrels/etc.
- Added occlusion planes to houses / walls / etc. for better performance.
- Added smoke / light to forges and smelters.
- Added -OPTIONAL- wall around the city. (Can be toggled on / off via MCM or the ETaC Config prompts.)
- Changes to guards' and other NPCs' patrol routes so they make more sense with the new town layouts.
- Made extensive changes to town layouts, landscape, navmesh and NPC AI *

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- Added 6 new houses.
- Added 9 new NPCs. 
- Added new custom dialogue for said NPCs.
- Added various notes and journals and such and things.
- Added an alchemist.
- Added a well for drinking water.
- Added exterior chimneys for houses because fireplaces.
- Added additional farms, farmers, fishermen, and hunters.
- Added additional woodcutters; And, NPCs will collect firewood for their houses daily.
- Added ownership data to all the random exterior items/barrels/etc.
- Added occlusion planes to houses / walls / etc. for better performance.
- Added smoke / light to forges and smelters. 
- Gave vanilla homeless NPCs homes (Embry.)
- Changes to guards' and other NPCs' patrol routes so they make more sense with the new town layouts.
- Made extensive changes to town layouts, landscape, navmesh and NPC AI *

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- Added 7 new houses. (This now includes a house for Lokir as he was supposedly from Rorikstead.)
- Added 11 new NPCs. 
- Added new custom dialogue for said NPCs.
- Added various notes and journals and such and things.
- Added a general store  (with a shrine for the healing of your poor diseased self).
- Added a blacksmith.
- Added an alchemist.
- Added stables (stores horses only; no purchasing).
- Added horse marker for player horse.
- Added a well for drinking water.
- Added exterior chimneys for houses because fireplaces.
- Added additional farms, farmers, fishermen, and hunters.
- Added additional woodcutters; And, NPCs will collect firewood for their houses daily.
- Added ownership data to all the random exterior items/barrels/etc.
- Added occlusion planes to houses / walls / etc. for better performance.
- Added smoke / light to forges and smelters. 
- Added some vanilla options that were available in other towns, but not here for whatever reason...
- Like the gathering of wood and food for those of you who had fervently wished you'd been born into a life of farming.
- Changes to guards' and other NPCs' patrol routes so they make more sense with the new town layouts.
- Made extensive changes to town layouts, landscape, navmesh and NPC AI *

* People now do a bunch of things beyond standing around and eating bread, om nom nom.)

 

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New ETaC will do what it should always have done, and that is towns and nothing else. There will be no changes to vanilla interiors (to maintain compatibility with any mods that make them, ELFX, and etc.) There will be no changes to vanilla NPCs’ actor records (to maintain compatibility with any character mods that make them), there will be no player houses, or new textures, no unnecessary item additions (no more having to patch leveled lists or for survival, food, weapon, or shop mods.) I won’t be “removing” any vanilla markers or intractable objects (to maintain compatibility with other NPC behavior and/or AI mods, 3DNPCs, Immersive Citizens, etc.). I will be *moving* vanilla objects, but NPCs will still be able to find them, and so I won’t have to patch for them. Woot.

One major change, however, is that New ETaC now requires you to have all the DLC installed. They've been out long enough that most people should have them by now and Hearthfires and Dragonborn in particular are packed with all kinds of useful assets for this kind of mod.

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New ETaC NPCs are going to have a little more depth to them. I’ve added more … “involved,” we’ll call it, AI packages, to make the towns and their inhabitants feel a little livelier. They’ll each have varying daily routines, new dialogue, some of them will have new side quests (which will conform with Skyrim’s side quests - no major quests.) They’ll have some more back story, and will react to your action in the rest of the world, to the weather, they’ll be a least a little bit more human, and slightly less like cardboard cutouts. Or at least that’s the goal lol. 

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I will still be offering Complete and Modular versions of the ETaC files. I will also include version with and without a MCM menu, and versions with and without the added quests in case you hate new things. Which is fine. No judgment.

And lastly, and maybe most importantly… 

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I’m still who I’ve always been and my particular aesthetic remains largely unchanged. So it’s likely the new ETaC towns will still have the same sort of visual as the old ETaC towns. But I am trying to build things in a slightly more streamlined way. Stuff that would make sense, is practical, and is slightly less of a resource hog than it was in previous versions. So think original ETaC just reigned in a little bit. Some towns will still have unique buildings (I do still plan on adding a bakery to Dragon Bridge – And hey! With Hearthfires, I don’t even need to add new bakery items. I have them already. Hooray! - but I wouldn’t expect to see Dragon Bridge South making a comeback.) although the goal overall is to give them more of a vanilla-feel than might have been in the case in the old mod. 

Yep. Ok. I’ve rambled on enough to that end, you get the general idea I think. SO. Moving on. 

 

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Everything you'll ever to need to know about compatibility can be found... right here. 
 

Spoiler

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Let me start by saying... I obviously haven't tested this with every single mod out there (as there are tens of hundreds of thousands.) So I can really only tell you how ETaC will behave with mods that I've already investigated. Hence, if you're unsure about a particular mod that you can't find on this list - feel free to ask. I'm happy to check it out.

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Ars Metallica - Smithing Enhancement by Arthmoor.
Ask the Way by Sagittarius22.
Atlas Map Markers - Updated with MCM by kryptopyr.
Atlas Map Markers for Skyrim by kronixx.
Blowing in the Wind by sialivi. (No patch needed. Make sure ETaC is loaded -After- Blowing in the Wind SSE.esp.)
Bring Your Own Dead by Arthmoor. (Make sure ETaC is loaded -BEFORE- Bring Out Your Dead.esp.)
Companions and Followers SE by Scrabbulor. (Make sure ETaC is loaded -AFTER- Immersive Followers.esp.)
Convenient Carriages by tarlazo. (Make sure ETaC is loaded -AFTER- Convenient Carriages.esp.)
Cutting Room Floor by Arthmoor.
ESO Skyshards by Arthmoor.
Falskaar by AlexanderJVelicky.
Flayer's Practical Home by TheFlayer.
Helarchen Creek by Arthmoor.
Helgen Reborn by Mike Hancho aka Balok.
Holidays by isoku.
Hunters Not Bandits by raccoondance.
Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul by Shurah. (Make sure ETaC is loaded -AFTER- Immersive Citizens.esp.)
Immersive Patrols by Scrabbulor.
Inconsequential NPCs by Ripple.
Interesting NPCs by Kris Takahashi. (Make sure ETaC is loaded -AFTER- 3DNPCs.esp.)
Landscape Fixes For Grass Mods by code1k. (Make sure ETaC is loaded -AFTER- Landscape Fixes For Grass Mods.esp.)
Notice Board SE by MannyGT.
Oblivion Gates Remade by Pabulum.
Open Cities Skyrim by Arthmoor.
Populated Cities Towns Villages by Sands of Time Team. (Make sure ETaC is loaded -AFTER- Populated Cities Towns Villages.)
Qaxe's Questorium by Ahondara. (Make sure ETaC is loaded -AFTER- Qaxe's Questorium.)
Relighting Skyrim by JawZ and NovakDalton.
Simply Bigger Trees SE (formerly SkySight SBT) by fadingsignal.
SkyBirds - Airborne Perching Birds by Steve40.
Skyrim Better Roads (SkyBeRoads) by SilentResident.
Skyrim Bridges by BJS_336.
Skyrim Flora Overhaul by vurt.
Skyrim Souls - Unpaused Game Menus by Kassent. *
Touring Carriages by DayDreamer.
Unique Border Gates by Kelsenellenelvian.
Verdant - A Skyrim Grass Plugin by Preeum. (Make sure ETaC is loaded -AFTER- Verdant: A Skyrim Grass Plugin.esp.)
Veydosebrom - Grasses and Groundcover by Merkcy.
Winterhold Restored by Mannenyuki.

* Disable this mod's "Books" feature to avoid game freezing when picking up the book during The Collector Part 4 quest.

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Better Docks by zebra0. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
Better Dynamic Snow by SparrowPrince, TechAngel85 and Brumbek. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
Carriage and Ferry Travel Overhauls by Kinaga. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
CLARALUX SSE - Controllable Lights Everywhere by MyGoodEye and Scythe42. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
Hunter's Cabin of Riverwood by Okiir. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
JK's Skyrim by jkrojmal and Teabag86. (Use the "JK's Skyrim SE ETaC Compatible Replacer File" now available @ JK's Skyrim.)
Lanterns of Skyrim SE by MannyGT. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
Leaf Rest by Aukmat. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
Morskom Estate by Darkfox127 and Elianora. (LE ONLY --- Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
No Snow Under the Roof by PROMETHEUS_ts. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
Realistic Lighting Overhaul by The Realistic Lighting Team. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
Rigmor of Bruma by Rigmor. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
Rorikstead Wagons - Wagons Only by Th3 Duk3. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)
RS Children Overhaul by Azrael WTF and Ranaline. (Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.) *
Skyrim 3D Landscapes by mathy79. (SE ONLY --- Patch available in ETaC's Patches File; Make sure ETaC is loaded -AFTER- S3D.)
The Kids Are Alright SE by The Care Taker. (Patch available on The Kids Are Alright's page.)
Unique Locations - Riverwood Forest by Cooleoj. (SE ONLY --- Patch available in ETaC's Patches File.)

* The RS patches by MichelleBrujah & Seoulcalibre available HERE are out of date at the moment and don't include the kids added to Dawnstar and Rorikstead. So, if you have those, uninstall them, and grab the ones out of ETaC's installer.

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ETaC will conflict with really any other town overhaul mods. (Things like Arthmoor's towns, or JK's Skyrim, or TPoS, etc.) That said, ETaC does, and will always, also offer a modular option (as do some of those mods), so you're free to pick and choose from whichever towns if you wanted to use. For example you could use ETaC's Riverwood with Arthmoor's Darkwater Crossing - That'd be fine. Just don't install a Darkwater with a Darkwater. Common sense and such lol.

Beginner's Shack in Riverwood by Elianora. (I'm working on a patch for this which should be out with the Morthal update.)
Hogor the Giant by Braiven. (Conflicts with ETaC Complete -and/or- Riverwood.)
Noble Warrior Cottage by smolbean69. (Conflicts with ETaC Complete -and/or- Riverwood.)
Rorikstead Wagons and Town Overhaul by Th3 Duk3. (Conflicts with ETaC Complete -and/or- Rorikstead.)

 

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ETaC is... mostly, compatible with Skyrim Souls - Unpaused Game Menus, but if you're using ETaC Complete or ETaC Riverwood, you'll want to disable this mod's "Books" feature as it causes the game to freeze when picking up the final book during The Collector Part 4 quest.

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The new version of ETaC is compatible with Blowing in the Wind -without- the need for patching. There will be a small conflict regarding one lonely Darkwater Crossing lantern, but that can be fixed by loading ETaC AFTER the Blowing in the Wind.esp. If you're not using an ETaC version with Darkwater Crossing, the load order doesn't matter at all, so do whatever grabs you. And-and-also-so...

NOTE: Blowing in the Wind's installer includes a mesh replacement for one of the old ETaC meshes, installing it won't hurt anything, but that folder "mjb_towns" doesn't exist anymore, meaning it also won't do anything, so I'd skip it to avoid ending up with crap in your data folder that you don't really need.

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ETaC is fully compatible with both Interesting NPCs and Immersive Citizens. (And, as of v0.4 - Immersive Citizens compatibility has been completely built-in. You no longer need the MCM "patch" option which is why it's no longer there. Hopefully this will avoid any future confusion over how all that is working.)

Please be mindful of your load order though, as ETaC's files must be going -AFTER- Interesting NPCs and Immersive Citizens in order for this all to work properly.

Seriously. I cannot stress enough how - This is REALLY IMPORTANT lol. (If your load order is incorrect your navmesh will be COMPLETELY broken preventing your NPCs from navigating the world, quests might not function as expected, your markers will be stuck in inaccessible locations which will cause AI packages to fail... I mean, it might actually kill you. You could just drop dead *SPLAT*

So again, ETaC AFTER Interesting NPCs and Immersive Citizens. Please and thankyouverymuch.

 

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Everything you'll ever to need to know about bugs / troubleshooting can be found... right here.  
 

Spoiler

 

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NOTE:  IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING THE "FLOATING GRASS BUG" - This is NOT a problem with this mod specifically, and is instead an issue with grass textures not updating correctly. You can fix it by following these steps.

WELCOME! To my lovely little post on various things that can contribute to the perfect storm of stuff that might KILL your game. (Kill it dead.) (Splat.) aka "Most Commonly Addressed Issues for ETaC" aka "Stuff Jenna Says Entirely Too Often For Her Sanity." 

At the moment, this here contains a lot less info than it's LE counterpart, as I’m so far not entirely sure whatall problems from LE will have carried over and continue to be problems for SSE. (Memory issues? Hopefully not. Script issues? Maybe. Light flickering? Could be! Let’s all just wait and see how this plays out lol.) SO. This is mostly just generic stuff for now, until I get a handle on all that. 

Here is one thing I will talk about though, as I’m confident it’s still an issue, has been an issue, for pretty much ever, so I feel safe in making that assumption and that is...

 

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What the hell is it? WELL. Load order is, as the name implies, the order that your mods are loading in (lol) it essentially organizes all of your conflicts by giving them a hierarchy. Any overlapping changes in a mod, will be overwritten by the mod going after it. So let’s say you have...

} Mod A
} Mod B

Loaded, in that order. Let’s say they’re both trying to a move a barrel in Riverwood. Mod B’s changes would be the one you’d see in-game since Mod B is being loaded after (therefore overwriting) Mod A.

Make sense? Fantastic.

Back to it then - LOOT is awesome, particularly for people who are not well versed in the intricacies of Load Order... BUT! Sadly, sometimes human intervention is still necessary. If you've made the decision to run a thousand mods (like the rest of us) then YOU are the one responsible for policing it. AND YES! This is a giant pain in your ass. It's a giant pain my ass too. It's a giant pain in all asses everywhere... but it's important.

In sum, treat LOOT as a guide - Run it once to get all your mods into a loose order, and then go through and re-arrange where needed.

What I personally do, along with, I’m sure, some others, and have been (somewhat) successful with so far (fingers crossed) is using a kindergarten approach to load order and trying and "group" my mods. Meaning that similar mods are all going together. (More on this shortly, but first...)

#01: Your ESM Files;
#02: Bug-Fix type Mods;
#03: Game Structure and/or UI Mods:
#04: Character Appearance Mods (For NPCs and Self);
#05: Mods that Add and/or Change Items;
#06: Mods that Add and/or Change NPCs;
#07: Mods that Add and/or Change Locations;
#08: Mods that Add and/or Change Navmesh; <-- This would be where ETaC goes.
#09: Texture Mods;
#10: Environmental Mods (things like Climates of Tamriel, Sounds of Skyrim, etc.);
#12: Mods with Gameplay Changes; Then,
#13: Reproccers, AV, and Bashed Patches.

ADDITIONAL NOTES
Generally speaking, all of your "fix" type mods (like HD texture pack fixes, or Unofficial patches) you want at the very tippy-top. Most other mods tend to fix things as they see them (this mod included), so you want these overwritten where necessary. 

Some follower mods add new locations. For example, the Arissa mod adds a new cave as part of her quest line. In cases like this, Arissa, and any follower mod that adds a new location, would be placed in your load order along with anything that adds or changes a location, and NOT with mods that add NPCs.

In a lot of cases, mods the add or change locations will also change navmesh. It's important that mods with major navmesh changes are loaded a bit lower on your list. So a mod that changes the porch outside an inn should be going before something like ETaC. It's better to have a single barrel not properly nav'd (and much easier to patch) than it would be to have all of the pathing in a town broken. (Your NPCs need it to move about in the world.)

If using it, very few mods should ever be loaded after your Bashed Patch. There are SOME exceptions, but those mods will likely tell you that upfront.

In closing… Even after following these guidelines you still need to make sure that you properly follow plugin placement rules as outlined by the mod author. So when in doubt – ASK THE MOD AUTHOR. They should know better than anybody else where their mod needs to be placed in relation to other mods to be able to function properly and with minimal conflicts.

 

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Disabling and Enabling ETaC's Dynamic Lighting
If you disable ETaC's "dynamic lighting" via the MCM menu, and then later re-enable it you'll have to leave the edited area for the change to take effect. Meaning if you re-enable it while standing in Riverwood, you'll have to leave and re-enter Riverwood (or any ETaC edited town) for the lighting to kick back in. 

The Collector Quests
Note: If you have Dragonborn installed (which you do, since this is SE lol) it is possible (although rare) for the books to spawn in Soltheim dungeon boss chests. If you are in Skyrim, you will not see the quest marker pointing you to the chest's location until you travel to Solstheim. (This also happens with vanilla quests and has nothing to do with the mod. It's just how Skyrim handles the quest markers between worlds.) 

So if you have a Collector quest ticked active and are NOT seeing the quest marker on your map, this is probably why. 

Other Note - ETaC is... mostly, compatible with Skyrim Souls - Unpaused Game Menus, but you'll want to disable this mod's "Books" feature as it causes the game to freeze when picking up the final book during The Collector Part 4 quest.

 

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So, as it turns out, there are some issues  with the way Skyrim SE is handling the editing of large references which causes LOD to show incorrectly resulting in texture flicker and also, sometimes, in those references to not show up in your game at all... fun! ETaC, as you might expect, edits a lot of large references. (Large references include - Houses, walkways, various landmasses, ... really all of the things and stuff you see making up your exteriors lol.) What I'm saying is... this is a problem. For me, personally, and also for you, and also for other people who makes mods. (You can read more about it HERE.)

Luckily, there's a way around it! Sort of! Per sheson... 

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Currently, the only option to mitigate all bugs is to turn large references off as the system is pretty much fubar - like most of the new and "improved" features in Skyrim Special Edition.

Further luckily, someone already tested this for me (and also you guys) because they are awesome, and for that I give you vidalia...

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Generating Dynamic LOD with large references disabled seems to have fixed the issue for me.


(Setting uLargeRefLODGridSize = 5 in SkyrimPrefs.ini)

So. If you're using ETaC with DynDOLOD - Do that. Set Large References Disabled (setting uLargeRefLODGridSize = 5 in SkyrimPrefs.ini) And you should be fine. Hooray?

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If you are experiencing the "light flickering effect" while using ETaC (either with or without the ELFX) --- The issue actually stems from the way Skyrim handles light sources, and by "handles" I mean "limits" in that you can only have a set number (4) lights hiting a single surface at a time. If you have more than this set number they'll toggle on and off so as to make sure that only that set number are on at a given time. 

Obviously the problem is worsened when you're adding multiple mods that are adding lights, so if you've got ETaC with ELFX with LOS with Claralux with etc. etc. etc. You're going to get a lot of light flickering. Patching can reduce the number of lights, and ETaC *does* have patches for those mods, so if you're using any lighting mods, I'd suggest making sure you've also installed the patches.

NOTE: Your torch, and any NPC torches, also count as light sources and there's really very little I can do about that on my end. I can't change how it handles or limits the light sources and I can't control whoall is running around with torches. I *can* try and reduce the number of exterior lights (which I have done in the new version, and will continue to do for added towns) but even if there is only ONE light if you run up with a torch and a couple NPCs walk by with torches, you're still going to get the toggle.

With regard to exterior cells, there is also this...

For those of you having this issue in exterior cells, you can attempt a fix by adding (or adjusting) the following line in your Skyrim.ini file:

Quote

Helps prevent lighting “pop-in” by pushing back the distance at which the lights begin to toggle. { Source }

[General]
fFlickeringLightDistance=8192

SHADOW STRIPING
(The entirety of this has been hijacked from STEP. You can find the original here.)
One of the great things about ENBSeries is that it usually fixes shadow striping. Some users, however, will still experience this issue if they've edited their Skyrim INIs. In the screenshots below it's hard to tell from their reduced size in the gallery, but notice the fuzziness along the edges of the shadows and the lines across some of the textures like the post and rock; this is shadow striping.

Example #1
Example #2

If this is preset, adjust the iBlurDeferredShadowMask parameter in the SkyrimPrefs.ini file (MO users will have to adjust it in the INI Editor in MO). It will be set to its default from when the INI files where created by the game launcher, unless users have manually adjusted it. Turning this parameter down to a lower usually results in sharper shadow detail; however, turning it down too low can result in striping. Users can adjust this setting from 0-7. If striping occurs while ENBSeries is enabled, increase this parameter's value by one, save the change, and test the new setting in-game. Continue to repeat this process until the shadow striping is gone. Usually between 3 and 5 are the best values.

If the above is not helping or making the shadows too blurry, adjusting the fShadowDistance parameter may also help. This is the distance at which shadows are drawn from the object. Decreasing this will make these shadows less elongated and help to eliminate striping at lower iBlurDeferredShadowMask values; however, adjusting this value too long can also result in unnatural looking shadows.

AfFOqnw.png
If you are experiencing strange phantom banging sounds in most of your interior cells, this is not actually an issue with this mod, and is instead an issue with Skyrim's fragile-little-flower physics engine. It generally occurs when you've disabled your vsync or if you've got unnecessarily high FPS...

 

The number one "fix" on this forum for Skyrim is to disable vSync through the "iPresentInterval = 0" tweak in the INI file. However over the last week or so it's come to many people's attention that disabling vSync this way causes all manner of bugs and glitches...

CRAZY PHYSICS
Allowing your FPS to go over 60fps causes the physics engine to go a bit out of control. The slightest touch, even opening a door, can send pots and pans 10 foot away flying all over the place. Whilst this may seem funny, it can have disastrous consequences if a really important item flies so fast it gltches out of the playable area.

This can however be solved by limiting your FPS to 60 or lower.

The sounds are just a result of "the physics engine going a bit out of control" - You can read more about this here.

As the quote explains, this will tell Skyrim to push back the distance at which it beings with all the light flickering. 

 

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There are (mercifully) a whole bunch of people now working on this giant unending monstrosity with me...

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Etienne • Ileji • jknjb • PurpleDerple • Undriel • winterlove

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xBeanyBabie • Colt Walker • CompleteTheCircuit • DeathCandy • Genny Sherard • Jim Belfiore • jknjb • KeeperOfMemories • TheLoreSeeker • NeverNotNinja • Severage • Storm Watters • talkingNsuch • Tasheni • Winterlove

Whether with writing (I do like zero of the writing for this thing now, thank God), voice acting, or testing (in addition to helping out on the comment thread and discord (speaking of which, many thanks also to Thallassa for doing nearly all of my discord crap for me, including, but not limited to, teaching me how to use the damn thing), providing patches, supplying me with wine, moral and psychological support, random information on bees and mead, and also on Skyrim (did you know there's like a whole game in there? I did not.) or donations of their awesome meshes (please see credits at the bottom for more info on mesh donations) - You guys are amazing, and wonderful, and also good looking, and I literally wouldn't be able to do this without you. 

And while I'm off on a thanking-people tangent... To Nazenn - I cannot possibly thank you enough for all the wonderful work you've done for me with ETaC (and other mods) (and everywhere else – you've got a lot on your plate, you're literally a machine) in my absence. You're the best ever,. A million trillion thanks to you for... everything. All of it lol. ♥
 

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01. Sclero's Farmhouse Kit by By Sclerocephalus
02. Building Kits and Other Items by jet4571and Elianora
03. Mr. Siika Seagulls by Mr. Siika and Tamira
04. Mr. Siika Ravens by Mr. Siika and Tamira
05. Squirrels by Mihail Romanov
06. House Cats by Mihail Romanov
07. Seadog Pirate Armor by hothtrooper44 *

* Actor use only. Not included as wearable armor.

AND! Things I don't have links to but remain awesome nonetheless...

08. "Brandy the Bard" Books by Brandy_123
09. "Hwaet Wegardena" Books and "Yashar's Journal" by jknjb
10. Custom No Snow Under the Roof meshes by winterlove.
11. A bunch of modified farmhouse meshes by winterlove.
12. Corrected ETaC-added farmhouse style meshes by Ambershore.

Thus concludes my mod description page. 

Should you have any other questions/concerns, please feel free to come find me --- Either here or on our Discord.

Thanks muchly <3

 


What's New in Version 0.7

Released

  • GLOBAL
    - Switched ETaC's Resources.esm to an esm'ified .esp file vs. actual .esm file. * (1)
    - Pulled all ETaC added quests from the main mod files. * (2)
    - Stream-lined the uninstall quests, remove the separate uninstall scripts, all done in one now. * (3)
    - Moved all misc. shared dialogue from the individual plugins to the Resources.esm.
    - Slightly decreased the squirrel sound volume.
    - Added ownership to all crops, alchemists' garden plants and chicken nests.
    - Removed vanilla merchant and favor jobs factions from all custom voiced NPCs.
    - Gave exterior wall meshes custom mesh paths to avoid conflicts with replacers.
    - Added all seq files to the .bsa.
    - Updated all FaceGenData for formID changes.
    - Updated all seq files for dialogue changes / additions.
    - {winterlove} Fixed mesh gap at roof on farmhouse03a, 03b, 04a and 04b.
    - {SE ONLY} Adding missing 02sign_n.dds to the .bsa; No more shiny butcher sign! Woo!

    DARKWATER CROSSING
    - Added squirrels.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Gaelif.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Meieran.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Isobel.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Varin.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Fasmund.
    - Temporarily pulled Agautr's voice files pending changes.
    - Minor changes to the way his Derkeethus dialogue is handled. * (4)

    DAWNSTAR
    - Fixed the rock seam showing outside Iron Breaker Mine.
    - Cleaned up the area by the East Empire Co. building;
    - Removed all the janky "support" rocks, switch to beach cliff static instead;
    - Removed the "covers ears" flag from Alday's hat mesh. (It doesn't cover his ears.)
    - This also fixes the remaining floaty posts.
    - Made navmesh adjustments for the above changes.
    - Fixed Therron's house key having wrong house name.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Randrus.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Frieda.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Candariel.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Alhildr.
    - Added some missing dialogue and voice files for Alhildr.
    - Added some missing dialogue and voice files for Oorlug.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Merienne.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Eirfa Four-Shoes.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Therron.
    - Added new dialogue and voice files for Humexus.
    - Added new dialogue and voice files for Lenoril.

    KARTHWASTEN
    - Exists now! Hooray!

    KYNESGROVE
    - Set Erarik's chop wood package to weapons unequipped so no duplicate axe.
    - Added "FarmerGourd" keywords to Ilfhild so she'll also buy your gourds.
    - Added the abandoned mill down by the river as is referenced in Ganna Uriel's dialogue.
    - Added the Clean-Up quest for when you want to uninstall. * (5)
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Maliyah.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Ilfhild.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Erarik.

    MORTHAL
    - Fixed a missing script error. (A quest was looking for a script that had since been renamed.)
    - Fixed Marla being sunk into the bar top while writing in the winery ledger.
    - Fixed black plane not toggling with wall sewer grate.
    - Fixed some of the wall occlusion planes being tied to the wrong toggle marker.
    - Added Hadrik's wife, Ingjard, and all the AI packages and whatnot for her.
    - Made some minor changes to Hadrik's AI to work better with Ingjard's new stuff.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Arathor.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Marla.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Thane Valund.
    - {SE ONLY} Fixed (moved) a couple clipping shrubs.

    RIVERWOOD
    - Minor changes to path behind alchemist's shop.
    - Removed gable from Odulf's house.
    - Moved tree and stump outside Odulf's house so branches not clipping.
    - Changes to rear bridge area leading to Odulf and Veekas' houses.
    - Specifically, removed the covered bridge;
    - Swapped to partial land-bridge / walkway bridge.
    - Added some trees and foliage and crap.
    - Modified some markers and AI packages to account for this change.
    - Modified some landscape and navmesh around this area for the same.
    - Added Basil's wife, Caminda, and all the AI packages and whatnot for her.
    - Changes to Brandulf's vendor dialogue; Makes it alchemist-specific.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Basil; Added line for after Delphine leaves Riverwood.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Isgerdr; Added line for after Delphine leaves Riverwood.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Dynara.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Odulf.
    - Added new dialogue and voice files for Rosalie.
    - Added new dialogue and voice files for Nesbjorn.
    - Added new dialogue and voice files for Veekas.

    RORIKSTEAD
    - Pulled all the RoriksteadQ01 data.
    - Removed Morgane, her interior cell, AI packages, dialogue, etc.
    - Moved alchemist's shop to old Morgane's house location.
    - Removed crops that were there and added alchemist's garden behind her new house.
    - Moved vanilla wolf spawn further away so they [hopefully] stop eating Yorda.
    - Moved Lokir's house to old alchemist's shop location.
    - Swapped Lokir's house interior meshes to match new exterior type.
    - Moved general store over a bit, moved path to farm to opposite side of that house.
    - Changed that farm's dirt texture to dirt01 to match the others.
    - Added some more trees around that area; felt kind of empty.
    - Updated the navmesh for all the exterior changes.
    - Lodin, Sigrun and Valgeir are now Lewin Savinie and Velian. * (6)
    - Cleaned up voice files for Bothilda.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Janus.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Veresa; Added her crop line.
    - Cleaned up voice files for Yorda; Added a couple missing lines.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Eilram.
    - Added dialogue and voice files for Lewin.

    PATCHES
    - Fixed installer listing wrong plugin for Ancient Lands patch.
    - Changed the name of the AE Patch to CC Fish Patch to avoid (or add to?) confusion.
    - Removed installer file dependency for the same to avoid Vortex not wanting to install it.
    - Removed Unofficial Patch "Patch" option, no longer needed.
    - Added patches to remove the ETaC added lanterns from trees.
    - Updated SMIM patch for new Karthwasten sign mesh.
    - Updated Better Dynamic Snow patch for .esm change.
    - Updated AI Overhaul patches for .esm change.
    - Updated Ancient Lands patch for .esm / Riverwood changes.
    - Updated Beyond Skyrim: Wares of Tamriel patch for .esm / Dawnstar changes.
    - Updated Carriage and Ferry Travel Overhaul (CFTO) patches for .esm change.
    - Updated Claralux patches for .esm change and Karthwasten.
    - Updated ELFX Exterior patches for .esm change and Karthwasten.
    - Updated Hunter's Cabin of Riverwood patch for .esm / Riverwood changes.
    - Updated Lanterns of Skyrim patches for .esm change and Karthwasten.
    - Updated Leaf Rest patch for Riverwood changes.
    - Updated Realistic Lighting Overhaul patches for .esm change.
    - Updated Rigmor of Bruma patches for .esm change.
    - Updated Rigmor of Cyrodiil patch for Dawnstar changes.
    - Updated Riverwood Keep patch for .esm / Riverwood changes.
    - Updated RS Children patches for .esm / Riverwood changes and Karthwasten.
    - {LE ONLY} Updated Morskom Estate patch for .esm / Dawnstar changes.
    - {LE ONLY} Fixed No Snow patch not swapping Dawnstar stables stairs to No Snow mesh.
    - {SE ONLY} Added patches for CFTO Fixes and Winterhold by ViktoriaLanders.
    - {SE ONLY} Fixed incorrect water records in the Complete / Riverwood AI Overhaul patches.
    - {SE ONLY} Fixed incorrect water records in the Complete / Riverwood ELFX Exterior patches.
    - {SE ONLY} Fixed incorrect water records in the Riverwood Realistic Lighting Overhaul patch.
    - {SE ONLY} Updated 3D Landscapes patches for .esm change and Karthwasten.
    - {SE ONLY} Updated Medieval Lanterns patches for Karthwasten; Converted all files to .esl.
    - {SE ONLY} Updated Unique Locations: Riverwood Forest patches for .esm / Riverwood changes.
    - {SE ONLY} Converted No Snow Under the Roof patches to .esl.
    - {SE ONLY} Converted Rigmor of Bruma patches to .esl.

    * (1) So I don't have to keep converting it back and forth as I make changes to it.
    * (2) Going forward quests will be available as a separate add-on for the Complete.esp only.
    * (3) Can all be done in the main quest now that other quests don't have to be stopped as part of that process.
    * (4) For better responses based on whether or not you'd spoken to him about it previously.
    * (5) This should have been in from the get-go, apologies that it wasn't.
    * (6) The town was a little nord-heavy, so they are now Bretons.

User Feedback

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Nice to see your work here!

 

There is a problem with the Dynamic Snow patch in Vortex. It searchs for Better Dynamic Snow.esp, but the plugin is Better Dynamic Snow SE.esp (EDIT: It will be solved in the next update, just do not install patch, thanks Discord team!)

Edited by asensio87
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I am excited to see you work on this. I have been a fan of your mods for quite some time because I like your style and I trust your mods. I was going through my load order(we won't talk about how long I've been doing it) and noticed that I wanted more done to Dawnstar, Morthal, Winterhold and Rorikstead. More because despite being small*, they are hold capitals and should at least have some defensive structures, even if they don't have the almost obligatory blacksmith that is needed to make a town. Even if it's abandoned(was that a hint?) However, changing too much can take away from the overall vibe. In addition I also wanted to see more from two towns, Dragonbridge and Rorikstead in particular. I know there are more, and possibly better candidates for being expanded upon, but these are the ones that jump out at me. I was in the middle of changing out the JK's Skyrim for The Great Cities when I saw this... and you throwing monkey wrenches into my load order. Hopefully your laughing, as intended. I would like to humbly request a list of city/towns you plan on covering in this mod so I can fill in the gaps with other mods, but I sincerely hope that you are planning on touching up the aforementioned ones.

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This issue is likely operator error of some sort but I can't see which mod I am using that would cause this as I don't have any whole world lighting mods installed. All the lanterns in the towns of Dawnstar, Riverwood and Rorikstead are bright blue during daylight hours.  After dusk and at night they appear normal. I haven't been to Dark Water Crossing yet but I suspect that would be affected too.

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On 9/12/2021 at 4:25 PM, Jojo said:

... I would like to humbly request a list of city/towns you plan on covering in this mod so I can fill in the gaps with other mods, but I sincerely hope that you are planning on touching up the aforementioned ones.

Firstly, thanks so much for your kind words :) Secondly, throwing monkey wrenches into peoples' load orders is kind of My Thing. I don't know if you were around for the old version of this mod, but the patches. Dear Lord, literally all of the patches. ANYWAY. 

Basically the plan is to get to all of them eventually xD On the list currently we've got: Darkwater Crossing (Done), Dawnstar (Done), Dragon Bridge, Falkreath, Ivarstead, Karthwasten (WIP), Kynegrove (Done), Morthal (WIP), Riverwood (Done), Rorikstead (Done), Shor's Stone, Stonehills and Winterhold. 

(And apologies for the slight delay on this response, I must have missed the notification. I've been buried in the Kynesgrove update this past week, which is, thankfully, uploading now, as I'm very ready to be done with it lol.)

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On 9/17/2021 at 8:57 PM, Mykelorcrist said:

... All the lanterns in the towns of Dawnstar, Riverwood and Rorikstead are bright blue during daylight hours.  After dusk and at night they appear normal. I haven't been to Dark Water Crossing yet but I suspect that would be affected too.

Well that's not normal lol. If possible, could you grab me a screenshot of one of the lanterns in question so I can see what *exactly* it's doing? Thanks so much! 

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image.thumb.png.4a0c9e1c2f6dab9fdc8d7b7dbb0616e5.pngimage.thumb.png.f85458aabffa716741d8016790722f8c.png

Top is Rorikstead, both the lantern and the sign chain are blue. Bottom is Riverwood.  All towns display this behaviour except when lanterns are lit.

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I love this mod - all of the changes just seem to always hit the spot more than any other mod when I'm trying to make sure I have the best possible version of each town.
But I just saw something in the change history that perplexes me...... "Changes to dog mesh; Now uses Dawngaurd husky base"
 - Why is a town and city expansion mod changing every dog in the game to a completely different kind of dog? Shouldn't that be a completely separate mod? I've gotten so used to those goofy muppet-looking dogs that I can't imagine the game without them now.

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On 9/20/2021 at 12:51 PM, missjennabee said:

Well that's not normal lol. If possible, could you grab me a screenshot of one of the lanterns in question so I can see what *exactly* it's doing? Thanks so much! 

Posted them but it seems to have been corrected in your update that includes Kynesgrove or I had incorrectly selected patches for lanterns and chains that I did not have the mods for installed.  When I installed ver 0.5,  I only selected patches for USSEP and RS Children.

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On 9/22/2021 at 11:58 PM, BrettBotTheCryonaut said:

... But I just saw something in the change history that perplexes me...... "Changes to dog mesh; Now uses Dawngaurd husky base" Why is a town and city expansion mod changing every dog in the game to a completely different kind of dog? Shouldn't that be a completely separate mod? I've gotten so used to those goofy muppet-looking dogs that I can't imagine the game without them now.

Apologies for the confusion - This change does NOT apply to ALL dogs. Only to the ETaC added dogs, which were already using a not-muppet-looking base. Nothing at all will look different. I promise. You wouldn't have even noticed if I hadn't told you lol. 

(The reason for the change, if anyone is wondering) is that previously they were using a custom husky-type mesh, but I switched it to the vanilla mesh once I found that it existed, because why add a mesh if I don't need to? xD As an added bonus this will not at all dramatically will cut down on file size. Hooray!)

Again, sorry if the change log was misleading.  I've updated it for clarity. Your vanilla dogs will remain as they always were ;)

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On 9/23/2021 at 2:03 PM, Mykelorcrist said:

Posted them but it seems to have been corrected in your update that includes Kynesgrove or I had incorrectly selected patches for lanterns and chains that I did not have the mods for installed.  When I installed ver 0.5,  I only selected patches for USSEP and RS Children.

Glad you were able to get it sorted :) and from the screenshots it looks like an issue with the SMIM mesh patch not being installed correctly. 

If you have any further problems, me = here. 

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NOTE: If you are using the Non-MCM having version of ETaC you need the update file just posted. Install this first - "ETaC SE v0.5 Fixed Installer" and then this - "ETaC SE v0.5 Fixed Non-MCM ESM File.rar"

 

You need both. In this order.  :)

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Hi Jenna,

I've been going around some of the towns trying to find the sidequests, but have not been having much luck. Are there any hints that I can find somewhere? Like, something that doesn't spoil the quest but just nudges us in a general direction? Are there any main / side quest conditions that have to be met before the ETaC quests can be started? (i.e. I have not started the main quest yet, since I am using Live Another Life.)

I've found the Burning Queen quest, and the Riverwood Alchemist quest just fine, but am having trouble with getting the Rorikstead quests, even after talking to everyone.

Thanks for your time!

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On 9/26/2021 at 9:55 AM, missjennabee said:

Apologies for the confusion - This change does NOT apply to ALL dogs. Only to the ETaC added dogs, which were already using a not-muppet-looking base. Nothing at all will look different. I promise. You wouldn't have even noticed if I hadn't told you lol. 

(The reason for the change, if anyone is wondering) is that previously they were using a custom husky-type mesh, but I switched it to the vanilla mesh once I found that it existed, because why add a mesh if I don't need to? xD As an added bonus this will not at all dramatically will cut down on file size. Hooray!)

Again, sorry if the change log was misleading.  I've updated it for clarity. Your vanilla dogs will remain as they always were ;)

Ah! Thank you for clarifying - then I also am sorry for being the one who misunderstood. :)
By the way there is also a Labrador mod that I stumbled upon. Might be fun to use for something different!

 

Do you think you'd ever be interested in a "No walls in Riverwood" option? The guards in Whiterun can be heard sometimes saying "Be glad you're not in Riverwood - poor sods don't even have a wall" so I was thinking it would be nice to have that consistency. Maybe there could even be a side quest to help get the walls built!

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14 hours ago, BrettBotTheCryonaut said:

Do you think you'd ever be interested in a "No walls in Riverwood" option? The guards in Whiterun can be heard sometimes saying "Be glad you're not in Riverwood - poor sods don't even have a wall" so I was thinking it would be nice to have that consistency. Maybe there could even be a side quest to help get the walls built!

I actually really like that idea, and it would be easy enough to implement, my only hesitation is that ICAIO actually adds a bunch of markers and crap on those walls and as I'm not allowed to patch for it (much woe and misery) I sort of -have- to leave ...well, at least the main entrance gate up to stay compatible. Not sure if he adds anything to the rear or side gate though. I'll make a note to investigate a bit more! :)

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Perhaps an MCM option to turn the walls on or off? I know most of us who enjoy using town/city overhaul/expansion mods have long since given up on using ICAIO because it is such a compatibility nightmare, and just not worth the trouble, so it would be great for us to have an option to activate "throw ICAIO caution to the wind" mode. ;) 
I wrote the above a few hours ago and since then have given it some thought... you know what would probably work really well? ICAIO mainly just adds new idle markers to the existing walls right? Well instead of getting rid of every trace of the walls you could keep the big wooden posts, and add simple wooden fencing. That way NPCs would still be able to use idle markers to have something to lean against, AND there would be the added benefit of still having wooden posts for other mods that like to add torch sconces, lanterns, decorative shields, signs, etc...

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3 hours ago, BrettBotTheCryonaut said:

Perhaps an MCM option to turn the walls on or off? I know most of us who enjoy using town/city overhaul/expansion mods have long since given up on using ICAIO because it is such a compatibility nightmare, and just not worth the trouble, so it would be great for us to have an option to activate "throw ICAIO caution to the wind" mode. ;) 
I wrote the above a few hours ago and since then have given it some thought... you know what would probably work really well? ICAIO mainly just adds new idle markers to the existing walls right? Well instead of getting rid of every trace of the walls you could keep the big wooden posts, and add simple wooden fencing. That way NPCs would still be able to use idle markers to have something to lean against, AND there would be the added benefit of still having wooden posts for other mods that like to add torch sconces, lanterns, decorative shields, signs, etc...

Ai overhaul would likely be more compatible and seems just as popular now days. I can check if it adds idle markers.

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With the new version I'm getting an "Unhandled native exception" crash on startup with ETaC Modular Rorikstead, Rorikstead Wagons, and the Rorikstead Wagons Patch.  I've used this combination in the old version with no significant problems (a couple of visible seams, but no crashes).  I've tried swapping the order of ETaC Rorikstead & Rorikstead Wagons with no change in behavior.  If I remove the Rorikstead Wagons Patch (with or without removing Rorikstead Wagons) I get past the crash point and have the Continue-New-Load-etc. menu.

I've attached the .Net crash log from a trimmed down run attempt- hope that helps!

Crash_2021_10_2_10-33-55.txt

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On 10/2/2021 at 12:39 PM, poppyfish said:

With the new version I'm getting an "Unhandled native exception" crash on startup with ETaC Modular Rorikstead, Rorikstead Wagons, and the Rorikstead Wagons Patch.  I've used this combination in the old version with no significant problems (a couple of visible seams, but no crashes).  I've tried swapping the order of ETaC Rorikstead & Rorikstead Wagons with no change in behavior.  If I remove the Rorikstead Wagons Patch (with or without removing Rorikstead Wagons) I get past the crash point and have the Continue-New-Load-etc. menu.

I've attached the .Net crash log from a trimmed down run attempt- hope that helps!

Crash_2021_10_2_10-33-55.txt 30.19 kB · 2 downloads

Apologies on this, I assume you're installing manually? The installer should no longer be giving you the option to *use* the Rorikstead Wagons patch (and instead would have given you a message explaining what is to follow... unless I've screwed up the installer somehow, which - would be very much like me) as it's now very out of date, and unfortunately, has been discontinued. (I must have forgotten to pull the actual file.) With the changes to Rorikstead in the most recent version (specifically the addition of Lokir's house) I'm just sort of out of places to move the wagons building to :( I'd though about maybe pushing it further out into the tundra, but at that point it's getting way too close to various quest things and enemy spawns, and etc. With all the farms and houses Rorikstead is just... packed. So, sadly, going forward ETaC's Rorikstead will NOT be compatible with Rorikstead Wagons, but ETaC does, as always, offer a modular option so if you prefer you can switch to that and just not install ETaC's Rorikstead. 

If you do decide to stick with Wagons and uninstall ETaC's Rorikstead, and you're doing this mid-playthrough...

 

Spoiler

#1: Get yourself to an unedited interior cell in an unedited town. Something like Whiterun's Bannered Mare. (If you want to lazy it - coc WhiterunBanneredMare). It's very important that you NOT be in an ETaC edited town - ETaC's global scripts, the things like lighting and whatnot, only run if you're in an edited town and you do NOT want to uninstall this with those running.

#2: Run ETaC's clean-up quests...

This will remove anything added to vanilla NPCs (factions, keys, takes them off of formlists, removes added relationships), it pulls any ETaC objects from you, the player, and the world that are collectable (mostly books, journals and notes) it sets the clean-up stage on all ETaC quests, which fails them, disables their added references, removes added quest-specific NPCs, removes all quest objects from you, the player, from other NPCs, etc.

ONLY RUN THIS IF YOU WANT TO UNINSTALL. IF YOU RUN THIS QUEST, YOU CANNOT CONTINUE TO USE THE MOD.

Open your console with the ~ key, and type ---> SetStage MJBRoriksteadSetup 01

Hit enter, wait for it to run. When it's all done, you'll get a pop-up notification saying...

"ETaC [TOWN] clean-up is complete. If you are using other ETaC towns, please run the clean-up script for those towns before exiting the game. If all towns have been cleaned up, it is now safe to shut down and uninstall the mod."

Do not save and exit until you've seen this message.

#3: Save, exit, uninstall. When you load your save, still inside Bannered Mare, open the console again and type ---> pcb

Hit enter. (This will purge your cell buffers forcing them to reload next time you visit... everywhere. Including Rorikstead.) Actually, even if you've chosen to keep ETaC's Rorikstead and have instead dropped Rorikstead Wagons, you'll want to do this (the PCB) bit. 


Again, very sorry for the confusion, and of course, I also apologize for dumping the patch. It was just got to be too much of a bear. 

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On 10/1/2021 at 12:23 PM, Eliian said:

Ai overhaul would likely be more compatible and seems just as popular now days. I can check if it adds idle markers.

AI Overhaul is indeed much more compatible, there were actually only a couple idle markers in Dawnstar and Riverwood that required patching (ended up in fences or buried in the ground with the landscape changes) but overall, miles easier to deal with for me, personally, than ICAIO lol. (And it - AI Overhaul - does NOT add anything to the walls, so would not stand in the way of toggling those.)

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On 10/1/2021 at 8:23 AM, BrettBotTheCryonaut said:

Perhaps an MCM option to turn the walls on or off? I know most of us who enjoy using town/city overhaul/expansion mods have long since given up on using ICAIO because it is such a compatibility nightmare, and just not worth the trouble, so it would be great for us to have an option to activate "throw ICAIO caution to the wind" mode. ;) 
I wrote the above a few hours ago and since then have given it some thought... you know what would probably work really well? ICAIO mainly just adds new idle markers to the existing walls right? Well instead of getting rid of every trace of the walls you could keep the big wooden posts, and add simple wooden fencing. That way NPCs would still be able to use idle markers to have something to lean against, AND there would be the added benefit of still having wooden posts for other mods that like to add torch sconces, lanterns, decorative shields, signs, etc...

ICAIO actually adds the markers on top of the walls, so on the walkway bits above the gates and such (mostly for guards to idle and observe the paths in to town) so unfortunately I wouldn't be able to just "slim down" the walls, I'd still need to leave a walkway up there. 

That said -- I could just add the toggle to the MCM and advise people that you should only USE said toggle if you are NOT using ICAIO though. Naturally, no one will read it, and I'll get loads of bug reports about floating guards, (you can lead a horse to water... lol.) but it's definitely an option. I've added a note to my To-Do list to investigate further.  

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I hope I'm not prying... but why the high prioritization of ICAIO compatibility? Is it jus because you personally use the mod and would prefer not to stop? If not, I can't help but feel like it may be causing you more grief and inconvenience than it is worth. The MCM option does sound like a great solution though, and maybe actually putting the warning about it not working with ICAIO right there in the MCM will help to decrease the confusion (maybe). Have you seen the version of Riverwood in Holds: The CIty Overhaul? I think it is pretty nice how he did the entrances to the village. Not saying you should copy from it or anything - just felt like sharing. Here's a video showing it off: 


I was sad to hear about the Rorikstead Wagons situation. I had actually only recently discovered that mod and was really excited about using it, but at the same time I don't want to give up ETaC either. That's frustrating. Hey since Lokir won't be using it, can we buy his house??? :D
Also did you see the new Rorikstead mod that RedBag released just a week or so ago? Holy smokes it is cool. Finally real, authentic, ancient viking-style homes instead of the generic farmhouses! I know that as it is, it is completely incompatible with ETaC, but it is just really cool to see, and it makes for a nice daydream to imagine eventually there being a patch that takes ETaC's Rorikstead and gives it all the new RedBag architecture.
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On 10/6/2021 at 6:58 AM, missjennabee said:

Again, very sorry for the confusion, and of course, I also apologize for dumping the patch. It was just got to be too much of a bear. 

I understand, and thank you for the detailed instructions!  Thankfully this was for a new playthrough I'm setting up, so I didn't have to deal with mid-game changes.  I came across this problem with a v0.5 download on October 1st, so I'm guessing it hadn't been thoroughly removed from the FOMOD in that version?  At any rate, when I downloaded v0.5.3 on Oct 4 it was clearly disabled in the installer, so no one else should be having this trouble moving forward. 

Thank you!  

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@BrettBotTheCryonaut:

Re; Immersive Citizens compatibility - No I don't actually play Skyrim lol, I try to be compatible with everything wherever possible, and patch in the instances where I'm not able to be. The author of ICAIO was just pretty against the idea of patching, thusly I've made an effort to build compatibility in, so that people who would like to be able to use the mods together are able to. 

Re; The rest - I've actually not seen either of those mods, but from the video / screenshots they look awesome! I absolutely love those viking-style homes in the Rorikstead mod. Maybe I can reach out and see if the author would be aggregable to some kind of patching. Do you know if they've just changed the housing types, or is it a full town overhaul? (I'll look into it a little more when I'm back from camping Friday.) 

Thanks again! 

@
poppyfish:

Oh yeah, the patches were dropped with the most recent update (well, second most now), the one adding Lokir's house, as the addition of his house left me without a proper place to move the wagon's building to. Maybe I can see about trimming Rorikstead back a bit in the future, it has become somewhat or an unruly beast as of late lol.

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