Nexus Mods App

[smr1957]

This was just posted on Nexus:

The future of Vortex and the Nexus Mods app

Post contains the latest information on Nexus' new mod manager (now called an app), the status of its development, and the philosophy behind some of the decisions.

(Thanks goes to Ilja for the heads up and his original post regarding it, here.)
 

Edited August 23, 2023 by smr1957

[Sigurð Stormhand]

A quick note - I'm sure a lot of people have strong opinions on mod managers and how they should be used.

Remember, play the ball, not the man.

[smr1957]

38 minutes ago, Sigurð Stormhand said:

A quick note - I'm sure a lot of people have strong opinions on mod managers and how they should be used.

Remember, play the ball, not the man.

This - 100%.

[Arthmoor]

I've read over their docs on what the plan is several times now and can't help conclude that it's overkill beyond all reason. Why not just install files the old fashioned way? Seems to have worked for the last 20 years

[smr1957]

24 minutes ago, Arthmoor said:

I've read over their docs on what the plan is several times now and can't help conclude that it's overkill beyond all reason. Why not just install files the old fashioned way? Seems to have worked for the last 20 years

LOL!  Very true!  Though I draw the line at manually installing mods - too much opportunity for people to bork things if they are not careful (and, sometimes, even if they are). And although I always recommend that people use the latest mod managers (Vortex or MO2) when advising new players in the Steam forums, I haven't changed my own preferences when it comes to my choice of manager.  I have been using the old NMM since I first started modding, and despite the many criticisms I have seen regarding it over the years in the Steam forums, I personally have never had an issue with it, and it does exactly what I want a manager to do - nothing more and nothing less - and that is to simply install and uninstall mods.  Everything else concerning the construction of my build I keep in my head, or, in rare instances, write down.  To me, none of the other bells and whistles are needed, or as far as I am concerned, even wanted - for me they are just a distraction.  And, I am sure, you, Arthmoor, feel the same way about Wrye Bash - it does exactly what you want from a manager - so why change?

I think people need to - or should - focus on using the manager that they are most comfortable with; different people have different preferences and needs, and to switch managers just because "it is the latest thing" is certainly not something I would recommend.  The only reason I see to change managers would be if it does something a person needs to be done and which is not possible with the current manager being used.  If a manager works for you, does what you want, and you are comfortable using it, then I don't see any real reason to change.

But, there is still a long way to go before Nexus' new manager is released, so for now, it is more a matter of observing the progress, and in some cases, making suggestion to the Nexus team.

Edited August 24, 2023 by smr1957

[smr1957]

This was posted by Avrie in Steam's Starfield forum, in The Coffee Pod discussion thread, here:

"Pickysaurus is putting out 'feelers' for feedback from prospective Starfield modders

Reposted from their discord...

'Your opinions on mod packaging
I've been thinking about Starfield and how we've all packaged our mods for Bethesda games before now. It's currently common practice for mods to be packaged relative to the Data (or Data Files for Morrowind) directory inside the game root folder. This works well for the vast majority of mods.

A thought I had for Starfield is if we rethink this and package all mods relative to the game root folder rather than Data. For example, if I were to share a mod with the plugin MyMod.esm which needs to go into Data I would pack this up for release under MyZipFile.zip/Data/MyMod.esm.

This would have the following benefits:
Consistent for all mods - You can install script extenders, visual presets, tools and pretty much anything in the same way using this format.
Easy Installation for everyone - Easy for both users who like to install manually and mod managers which do the installation for you.
More Flexible - Modding tools could be installed to Starfield/Tools/{TOOL NAME} by default - this could be done by mod managers too. It could also become standard to put special files in new directories without cluttering up Data or hiding them away somewhere like %appdata%. e.g. Starfield/Tools/LOOT/userlist.yaml

With only two drawbacks I can think of:
It's different - A lot of authors who've shared content for older games will probably still share things relative to Data unless we can convince them of the benefits.
Mod Manager compatibility - Some mod managers (mainly Mod Organizer 2) don't support installing to the root folder of a game without an additional plugin. This may require a bit of work when these managers are updated for Starfield to be able to install things intended to live outside of Data.

To be clear, this is just a thought experiment, not a requirement!'

The replies are on the #author channel in the starfield modding discord."

[Arthmoor]

Was just discussing some of that on Discord ourselves. Personally I don't see any reason to do this. BGS mod packaging has been standardized on using the Data folder for 20 years now. Suddenly expecting everyone to switch that to the game root for Starfield makes no sense. It will just lead to confusion, and it's unlikely the people who have been doing it wrong all along will stop doing it wrong after this.

[Scythe Bearer]

FROM A USER perspective, I can understand why the neophyte PC user would want their mod manager to handle things like the Script Extender and the DLL files.  Most of these players are not sophisticated enough to understand the file placement strategy used in Bethesda Games.  They don't care about directory structures, files systems (virtual or real) or directory permissions.  They simply want what Todd promised them, "It just works". 

Unfortunately, these same users don't understand the subtleties of load orders, mod conflicts and mod management.  Consequently, they demand some magical, mystical tools to do the thinking for them.  And that is where this tool is supposed to fit.  Personally, I think the mod using community could use more educated users instead of another over wrought tool. 

With that, I; as a Mod Author, find NexusMods using their position as "dominate" mod hosting site to dictate how mods are packaged looks and feels more like bullying mod authors and the makers of other mod managers than supporting users needs. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Scythe Bearer

[smr1957]

1 hour ago, Scythe Bearer said:

Unfortunately, these same users don't understand the subtleties of load orders, mod conflicts and mod management.  Consequently, they demand some magical, mystical tools to do the thinking for them.  And that is where this tool is supposed to fit.  Personally, I think the mod using community could use more educated users instead of another over wrought tool. 

Boy, Scythe, you hit the nail right on the head with that one statement.  This is seen all the time on the Steam forums.  Fortunately, with some of the people that are helping there, and the guides and resources that are available, it is something that is easily corrected in many cases - and we try not just to help people fix their game issues, but also hopefully teach them a little about modding as we do so.  But, there are some (and even some who wish to help - if only they wouldn't), who just don't understand, and want everything automated for them.  And then blame it on the game (and Bethesda) when things don't work.

 

As far as changes go, I am a firm believer in the old adage, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Arthmoor]

I think what amuses me most is that despite the colorful descriptions of how NMA is all about change management and being able to roll back the Data folder, they essentially described Wrye Bash. Cause that's what Wrye Bash has let everyone do for over 10 years now. I guarantee you this is also why they're trying to redefine packaging standards, because they want the functionality of some ill-advised plugins for both Vortex and MO2 that allowed for this despite the security issues involved.

[Scythe Bearer]

5 minutes ago, smr1957 said:

As far as changes go, I am a firm believer in the old adage, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Really?  Wanna bet?  I am willing to bet a significant amount of money that; like most of humanity, you start looking for a petrol station long before your car sputters to an ignominious stop on the roadway. 

[smr1957]

35 minutes ago, Scythe Bearer said:

Really?  Wanna bet?  I am willing to bet a significant amount of money that; like most of humanity, you start looking for a petrol station long before your car sputters to an ignominious stop on the roadway. 

LOL! actually, no - I don't stop for gas until I am down to maybe an eight of a tank (or even less) - and I always know where the stations are, so I don't need to look! 

Though I no longer have to stop for gas any longer, as I no longer have a car! 

Edited August 27, 2023 by smr1957