[Skyrim] Clicking on a dialogue topic yields nothing, even though there is an answer with conditions satisfied

[arvisrend]

Hi!

 

I'm working on the bugs in SureAI's Enderal, and here's one that's beyond my grasp (as well as that of the rest of team). Maybe anyone here wants to take a chance at it, or just knows the issue from their experience?

 

There is a certain NPC, called "Novizin Elia" (ID _00E_NQ28_NoviceElia), who hangs around the graveyard of Ark kneeling at a grave, until one talks to her and does her quest (NQ32). (Yeah, the NQ numbers don't match, for historical reasons. Oops.)

 

As I approach her, she is kneeling: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k1h67b301a2c10w/nq32desc-001.jpg?dl=0 . Meanwhile, a triggerbox I've entered has set the stage of NQ32 to 5; this is to ensure that her dialogue has any chance to start.

 

Now I talk to her: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqdk7nt2racsfar/nq32desc-002.jpg?dl=0 . Her greeting, "(Schluchzen)" ("(sighs)") is actually not from NQ32, but from a different quest (ArkGenericDialogue), because it's an Idle and we want it to happen even before the player enters the triggerbox. Here's it in the CK: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ibq3fqk5fs2mwx/nq32desc-003.png?dl=0 . It has a Papyrus fragment attached to its End:

If NQ28.GetStage() < 5

 NQ28.SetStage(5)

 NQ28.SetObjectiveDisplayed(7)

Endif

(the NQ28 property is set to NQ32, don't wonder). But since NQ28.GetStage() is already 5, this should do nothing. And don't worry about this script too much; if I remove it, the bug persists.

 

However, the "Alles in Ordnung?" topic is actually from quest NQ32: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mym07oouq1anyok/nq32desc-004.png?dl=0 . For all I know, the conditions are satisfied (the stage is 5, the alias is set). Nevertheless, (ingame) I click on the topic and nothing happens! The "(Schluchzen)" stays. (And this is happening to many players, not just me.) Clicking again doesn't help either; nor does tabbing out and talking to her again immediately afterwards. The only thing that does help is wandering around for a few minutes and returning to Elia again; at some point the topic just randomly starts working.

 

This is a Heisenbug; it sometimes just doesn't happen. Yet it appears to happen about 2 in 3 attempts. We have a few other occasionally unclickable topics in other quests, which we suspect to be of similar origin, but which are harder to reproduce.

 

Anyone a guess? Could it really be the script fragment, somehow persisting through its removal? Could it be the "Random" flag on the Idle greeting? Does her kneeling AI prevent her from talking properly? Could the voice for "(Schluchzen)" be somehow messed up? Have you seen anything like this?

 

(Note: I've been told that "start game enabled" quests have some issues with dialogue; but NQ32 isn't such a quest.)

[IsharaMeradin]

I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination.  But I noticed that the generic dialog had the same priority as the actual quest dialog.  Have you tried adjusting priority so that the quest dialog is preferred?  I can't ever remember if its supposed to be a lower number or higher number to win the priority.  Might be worth testing at any rate.

[lmstearn]

Have you checked for the status of running quests in the console with sqs?

Is ArkGenericDialogue a custom idle: possibly FNIS? They might be a little awkward. Would an AIpackage work as an alternative to an idle quest?

[arvisrend]

Thanks. The priorities did seem off, but changing them changed nothing. On the other hand, what is a custom idle and how can I tell if something is one?

[lmstearn]

Oh, oops, Enderal is a piggy back game like Nehrim. Cool! Well in that case have no idea really.

If ArkGenericDialogue is a quest NQ28, then Novizin Elia is bound to it. Is her alias the same as for NQ32? Can NQ28 be completed and restarted after the NQ32 stage perhaps?

[arvisrend]

I think you got some quests confused (which is unsurprising, given the legacy label NQ28 for NQ32). Elia is an alias on NQ32 (which is what the NQ28 property is filled with), but not on ArkGenericDialogue.

From what I can tell, simply removing Elia's greetings from ArkGenericDialogue (or conditioning them to an impossibility) seems to solve the problem ("seems" because it's hard to tell when a Heisenbug is gone). This is, of course, something we could do, but it would mean losing two greetings and not fixing the root issue, which seems to appear in other places as well. So, any ideas would still be greatly appreciated.

[lmstearn]

The ArkGenericDialogue is a quest though. What would be the purpose of that? Perhaps try putting those greetings in a new generic-like AI package instead?

[Arthmoor]

All dialogue has to be part of a quest somewhere.

 

I seem to recall something having been said once about dialogue possibly getting stuck if an attached script fragment has not finished processing for some reason. Any chance this could be happening here?

[arvisrend]

Thanks -- but removing the fragments didn't help. Though I am not sure whether removing the fragments actually does what it's supposed to...

[lmstearn]

Yep, sorry, meant place the "(Schluchzen)" in hellos rather than a dialogue quest. A different set of hellos can be called on by script, no?

[Arthmoor]

Ok, I don't know if it helps at all, but the situation as described where a dialogue option shows, but clicking on it does nothing, isn't isolated to this one case. I've run into it now on 3 different ones. In all 3 cases, simply saving, quitting to desktop, and then reloading worked every time.

 

Of the 3, I can only remember two - one with Bulvar when you run into him on the Penny Road, and another with the guy who does the Red Vynroot quest.

 

Can't say I've ever run into that while playing standard Skyrim, so I have no idea what's going on here. It's not the same as what I was thinking of where clicking the response LOOKS like something was supposed to happen but never does.