Do you need to replace an esp with a dummy if uninstalling a mod?

[Turija]

In my quest to expand my technological knowledge, I came across something I didn't understand today and thought I would ask you smart people here for advice.

 

The guide linked here suggests this step if you want to uninstall any mod mid game:

 

 

Enable a dummy esp (download section) at the same place to preserve your load order and to avoid to break link between active mod and script.

 

It sounds like he is saying that any change in the order of your mods can break links in scripts of other active mods in your load order (not the mod that is being uninstalled, which could be a simple change in the landscape).

 

I don't know that much about how the script engine works, but I thought that the game could deal with changes in the first two digits of the Formid that happens when you change your load order.  Is that not actually the case?

 

I am hoping someone here can help advance my education at mod U.  

[zilav]

I really doubt it. Author doesn't even have any mods to back up his knowledge and claims, no idea why would anyone trust such persons.

[Turija]

I really doubt it. Author doesn't even have any mods to back up his knowledge and claims, no idea why would anyone trust such persons.

Thanks!  That's kinda what I thought but wanted to hear it from someone who knows more about how the game actually works than I do.

 

EDIT:  That guy also recommends routine use of the save game script cleaner when uninstalling a mod.  My experience with that tool is it can sometimes do more harm than good.  I would only use it as a last resort if the save becomes really unplayable.  Not something I would use every time I uninstall a mod.

[alt3rn1ty]

Also @Turija

 

off topic but the topic on Bethesdas old forums reference BSAs, the link you gave for the BSAs and You topic really is everything they need to know

 

The people wondering about speed of decompression and loading versus loose files have not had a good read of the linked topic - Right at the very end of the topic Lojack has quoted Ethatrons research into the same which basicly says a small file decompressing into ram fast with zlib is a lot faster than loading a decompressed file which is much bigger

 

 

 

So lets see a little calculation for two operations of reading data from disk, uncompressed and then compressed:

• Harddisk-throughput: 20MB/s
• Memory-throughput: 2000MB/s
• zlib-throughput: 80MB/s
• uncompressed size: 100MB
• compressed size: 60MB

This yields:

• Reading 100MB at 20MB/s from disk takes 5s.
• Reading 60MB at 20MB/s from disk takes 3s, decompressing 60MB at 80MB/s in-memory takes 0,75s, so a total of 3,75s.

In case the data is very small it's probable that seeking time will start dominating the times:

• Reading 1MB at 20MB/s from disk takes 0,05s.
• Reading 0,6MB at 20MB/s from disk takes 0.03s, decompressing 0,6MB at 80MB/s in-memory takes 0,0075s, so a total of 0,0375s.

Seeking may be as much as 0,002s. Nevertheless it doesn't change the fact that reading compressed data is faster as long as the decompressor is faster than the disk. It's a rather theoretic notion, but when using compressed solid archives even the seek-times go down as the disc-head has to reposition a smaller distance while bulk-reading from the same archive.

Also, in reality with a modern system the decompression speed of zlib reach realistic 250-500MB/s (as you can see here), which can be far beyond any SSD-speed.

 

 

I tried a lot of different combinations of loose files versus highly / not so compressed BSA during progression of my Vanilla Reduced Textures mod ( it replaces circa 32000 textures )

 

I can concur that highly compressed BSAs are without doubt the best way to go for more optimal loading ( though only on file types which the game will successfully load after they have been highly compressed .. Sound / voice files are a no-no for high compression )

 

Blackjack Davy is right that BSAOpt is very good for highly compressing Textures and Meshes ( though he obviously has not had a read of the above quote in the topic you linked in Post #2 )

He used BSAOpt compression level 8 - I used 10

( I think compression level 3 in BSAOpt equates to the official archivers best compression, so it is capable of making loading a bit more optimal .. aswell as not storing duplicate files in the bsa produced ( it just extracts the same file multiple times as needed ) )

 

 

I cant post on Bethesdas old forum due to invalidating my account in preparation for that forum going dead.

[Arthmoor]

There's no validity to the claim that you need to insert a dummy esp. If the scripts are gone, they're gone, and the game will not care if the esp they belong to is still there. Those links are broken the moment the scripts disappear.

 

The Papyrus functions that deal with form IDs all handle it in a load order independent way, so the only possible screw up would be for patch files that depend on the esp file. Patch files that will now be patching non-existant data and causing problems because of that.

 

So if you are going to uninstall something, just uninstall it. The esp will be properly decoupled from the save and you'll still have to deal with orphaned scripts regardless. Obviously the better choice is to simply not uninstall stuff and start a new save if you're getting rid of something.

[Sclerocephalus]

Instead of proposing workarounds that are dubious at best, mod authors should be encouraged to conceive appropriate shut-down procedures for their scripted mods. This will not eliminate all problems with uninstalling scripted mods either, but it can minimize them.

[Arthmoor]

People have done that already and have found that the type of person who uninstalls mods is usually also the type who won't read the directions for using a shutdown process to stop active scripts.

[fireundubh]

Instead of proposing workarounds that are dubious at best, mod authors should be encouraged to conceive appropriate shut-down procedures for their scripted mods. This will not eliminate all problems with uninstalling scripted mods either, but it can minimize them.

 

http://www.creationkit.com/fallout4/index.php?title=Papyrus_FAQs#How_do_I_write_save-safe_scripts_then.3F