The case of the disappearing invisibility (and other oddities).

[Screwball]

You need to have completed TG01 (Taking Care of Business) and have either a Spell or Potion of Invisibility.
Exit the Guild by means of the secret entrance. If the tomb is open, close it.
Open the tomb, immediately take a potion (or cast a spell) of Invisibility, sneak/walk/run (doesn't matter which, provided you don't take too long) up the stairs, turn sharp right almost back on yourself and proceed towards the town centre past the guard by the gap in the wall in front of the Temple.
Note that your invisibility wil desert you, with no apparent cause (such as runnng out of time or "using" something) before you reach the guard. You will know when it is going to happen because you'll hear the tomb begin to close.
This is absolutely repeatable and would appear to be caused, or at least be related to, the automatic closing of the tomb, but does not seem to be entirely time dependant as running most of the way then waiting a short time before proceeding does not alter the position you are in when the invisibility disappears.
If this is deemed to be a bug, let me know which category it belongs in and I'll create a proper Tracdown entry for it.

Trainers and their dialog (Dawnguard NPCs not checked).
Simple one this. Some trainers continue to offer training (or at least retain the dialog which would previously have started the training) long after they are able to train you further.
For example, all of the Alchemy, Alteration and Enchanting trainers exhibit this behaviour, but all of the Archery, Light Armor and Smithing trainers do not.
This is not a bug as such because the aforementioned trainers have appropriate dialog to explain why they can't (or won't) train you, but it is inconsistent and "immersion breaking" to constantly have dialog options there is no point taking. My personal preference would be to suppress the unnecessary dialog, but whether it is something for the USKP or not is not my decision.

This final one is really odd - more for discussion than a "report". Only using the console while checking Trainers for the above "oddity", not during normal gameplay (before anyone shouts at me...).
While checking various trainers I found it much quicker to use the console and "player.moveto" a specific trainer. Imagine my surprise when a few of the trainer RefIDs failed! Hamal (Markarth/Temple of Dibella) for example, whose RefID is "0001E766" caused the following console error:-
Item '0001E766' not found for Parameter ObjectReferenceID
Compiled Script not saved
But, if I go to Markarth, locate Hamal, open the console and click on her, the console reports her ID as "0001E766".
Anyone care to take a stab at just wtf is going on? So far Hamal (0001E766), Scouts-Many-Marshes (0001B140) and Milore Lenth (xx0182A2) exhibit this behaviour, most others I tried (which is not all by any means), including Neloth (xx0177DA), do not.
Confused? Join the club
 

Load Order:-

Update.esm
USKP.esp (2.1.1)
Hearthfires.esm
UHFP.esp (2.1.1)
Dragonborn.esm
UDBP.esp (2.1.1)
SBBasement.esm
SBBasementHF.esp
SBBasementDB.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp (2.0.5)
no killmoves, no killcams, no killbites.esp

 

[lmstearn]

Just on the moveto, there have been issues where it fails both in scripts and console.

If the actors are in the same cell, there should be no problem.

Else, possible conditions for testing:

Is the persistent location of the actors interior or exterior? Are they above/below the z axis?

Are any of the actors bound to an active quest?

Is the player in an interior or exterior location?

Is the player above or below the z axis?

Try moving the actor to a slight distance from the player:

BuddyRef.MoveTo player, 512, 0, 0

It's well worth posting useful findings back to the wiki

Also see more bugs here

[Screwball]

Interesting. Tried with Hamal multiple times, both inside Breezehome and outside in Whiterun. No dice.

Travelled to Markarth and from both there (outside) and inside Vlindrel Hall the Move to Hamal works, Travel to Solitude and it fails once more.

 

Looks like I just discovered a problem which is already known about - never crossed my mind to check the wiki tbh as that is primarily for scripts and this was (or so I thought) a console issue.

[Arthmoor]

For your first issue with the tomb thing, that may be some kind of issue with the trigger that auto-closes the tomb once you've left it. Probably a bug in how the activation is being handled so that should get filed.

 

For the trainer issue, If they have dialogue to tell you they can't train you, then that's a clear sign they intended for it to be accessed (and it's working) so it's not a bug for us to fix. That would be something a preference mod would need to deal with.

 

The issue with NPCs not showing up has to do with persistence. You'll find that the same thing will happen with any object, not just actors. It's part of how the game optimizes memory. Only objects and actors which are fully persistent (because of an alias or a script property) will be accessible from anywhere in the world like that.

[Screwball]

For the Invisibility - which Tracdown category?

 

Trainers - I thought that would be the case. Worth a try though

 

NPCs - not entirely certain I fully understand the mechanisms behind all that, but I'll take your word for it

[lmstearn]

Aha, persistence was the word I was looking for, thanks Arthmoor.

I did a bit a trawl, but came up with nothing except If We Knew Then What We Know Now. The burning question (almost answered there with objectReference properties) is what actually constitutes the difference between partial and perma- persistent?

[Arthmoor]

I had a nice write up somewhere on the different levels of persistence. Wasn't hugely detailed but it covered the basics. It was an answer to someone, but I think it's buried somewhere on the Bethesda forum.

[PrinceShroob]

Does the secret entrance retract by calling Activate()?

[lmstearn]

I had a nice write up somewhere on the different levels of persistence. Wasn't hugely detailed but it covered the basics. It was an answer to someone, but I think it's buried somewhere on the Bethesda forum.

Yeah, my regex ran outa gas... you'll have to drum up some more keywords there Art.

Might get together a Knowledge Thing on Persistence on return to Skyrim. Meanwhile it's wrapping this poor brain around stuff like Sclero's beauty from the wiki talk in the intervening months:

 

Needless to say that there would never be a caravan camp site enabled or disabled in the game if his (caravan leader's) 3D would not unload only because his reference is permanently persistent.

 

[Screwball]

For your first issue with the tomb thing, that may be some kind of issue with the trigger that auto-closes the tomb once you've left it. Probably a bug in how the activation is being handled so that should get filed.

 

I still don't know which tracdown category to place this in - none of them seem appropriate

[Arthmoor]

Stick it in Papyrus for the moment. It's probably going to be a script fix anyway once we get a chance to look at it.

[Screwball]

Ok, will do.

 

[edit] Done.[/edit]