Suiei Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 When the Unofficial Skyrim Patch is installed walking into Golden Glow estate counts as a trespass.(the golden glow sewer doesn't count as trespass.) the moment I uninstall it and load the game up it no longer counts as a trespass. at first I thought it might be a mod conflict so I had uninstalled everything and just tried the patch but it still was causing problems. I thought maybe it was just my computer so I asked my brother to check his game out too, and when we went to see if he had the same issue he did. I also noticed that while Golden Glow was counting as a trespass when it should not be a trespass. Dragon reach Jarls quarters where acting in the Opposite way. (I had not gotten clearance yet to enter and when I did I never received a trespass. and of course when I uninstall it I get a trespass.) I don't know why and I know it has nothing to do with the Unofficial Skyrim Patch but perhaps both mods do something similar that causes the same issue? but Realistic Lighting Overhaul causes the same issue. (not a mod conflict both had nothing else installed at the time. I had been trying to figure out which mod was causing the problem.) if it helps I have all the latest official patch's and the latest SKSE and the latest Unofficial patch. I have yet to try an older version of the Unofficial patch, perhaps I'll try that tomorrow. (and sorry if this is in the wrong place or what ever I'm not entirely sure how to use the bug tracker? but I guess I gotta start somewhere, and the first times never a charm.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hana Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Because this was a bug that was fixed in 1.2.6 back in Dec. Golden Glow Estate will now be owned by the faction Aringoth and the mercenaries belong to in order to prevent the player from being able to simply take everything there without consequence. (Bug #173) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 Because this was a bug that was fixed in 1.2.6 back in Dec. ok so does that mean I should be getting a trespass when doing the quest "Loud and Clear"? when I get to the 2nd floor Aringoth even runs all the way from his room and says "you need to leave". sounds to me the bug that was fixed was for people not on the quest? (I've never actually entered golden glow without the quest activated so I wouldn't really know.) and sorry I just realized my first post didn't say that I'm actually on the thieves guild quest. I guess it's not really that big of an issue... since I can just uninstall the patch for the quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 You don't want to be uninstalling the patch for that. Uninstalling a mod your save is using is not something Skyrim deals with properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 You don't want to be uninstalling the patch for that. Uninstalling a mod your save is using is not something Skyrim deals with properly. I do understand that, so I'll be keeping a back up of the game when I go to do it, but I can't think of any other way to do the quest at the moment, and I would in fact like to keep going on with the thieves guild quest line. is this actually a bug or is it supposed to be like that? if it is a bug it seems to be easily reproduced. since my brother's game had no issue's with this quest until he updated his unofficial patch. I'm unsure as to which version he was using before, I'm guessing a version from before December, since the last time he played Skyrim was sometime before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hana Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 It is supposed to be like that, and there is nothing wrong with the Loud and Clear quest. I just started a new character who joined the TG just to test this out. Aringoth might flail and yell at you to get out, but you can still walk up to him and initiate the necessary conversation. I just played it out perfectly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 It is supposed to be like that, and there is nothing wrong with the Loud and Clear quest. I just started a new character who joined the TG just to test this out. Aringoth might flail and yell at you to get out, but you can still walk up to him and initiate the necessary conversation. I just played it out perfectly fine. to be honest I could say it wasn't even a bug to start out with the fact that it wasn't stealing to take items from the estate. its not as though the characters didn't do as they where supposed to. none of the mercenaries treated you like you should be there. none of it felt out of place or wrong, but the way it is now feels wrong, it doesn't feel like this is how it should be. this feels more like someone had a preference that all items in a building that didn't belong to you should be stealing. but where does that stop? whats next every item in a dungeon is stealing? I've already noticed some strange behavior. like Jarl Laila right before she goes to bed if your in the castle (not her personal quarters) comes walking over and says "you need to leave" over and over but you never actually get a trespass and no guards come to arrest you and eventually she stops and goes to her quarters to sleep. and the fact that I can actually enter the Jarl of whiterun's personal quarters without a trespass even tho I've yet to become thane. (since I'm not doing the main quest right now) all seems out of place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 We could split the difference on that and mark the cell as public for the duration of the quest. That would still make it theft to steal from the guy but he shouldn't pursue you throughout the house to make a big stink about it. Event though, really, if you break in and aren't being sneaky you should be getting harassed about being there just as much as you should be getting dinged for trying to steal the place blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 We could split the difference on that and mark the cell as public for the duration of the quest. That would still make it theft to steal from the guy but he shouldn't pursue you throughout the house to make a big stink about it. Event though, really, if you break in and aren't being sneaky you should be getting harassed about being there just as much as you should be getting dinged for trying to steal the place blind. I don't mind if everything is stealing but the way the quest is now doesn't fit with the story. Aringoth is supposed to be hiding in the back room scared, sending his mercenaries after you. it just feels broken the way it is now, so anything you do to fix it would be better then it is now, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 really though the place doesn't even belong to Aringoth, Karliah technically bought it, but maven-black-brier claims ownership over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hana Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Aringoth was hiding in his room, cowering behind the shelf like he always is for me by the time I killed all his mercenaries and got to him. I hear what you're saying, it's uncomfortable for you, but I'm just not sure why. The house does not belong to you, you are trespassing. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Aringoth was hiding in his room, cowering behind the shelf like he always is for me by the time I killed all his mercenaries and got to him. I hear what you're saying, it's uncomfortable for you, but I'm just not sure why. The house does not belong to you, you are trespassing. Period. where you sneaking at the time? cus when I go to the top floor when I'm not sneaking he just comes and runs all the way out from the room, and meets me at the entrence, the whole time yelling "you need to leave". and not really its not that its uncomfortable its just not the way the quest is supposed to happen so it freaks me out. technically if we are gonna apply real world rules to this walking into anyone's house without knocking and asking to come in would be trespassing, which we do all the time. sure if I where to say enter Arin's house when he wasn't there I would get a trespass but when he is there its not a trespass, but its not like he invites me in. my main point is really if its not broken why fix it. and it wasn't broken, in fact it seems like that's how Bethesda intended the quest to be. this just seems like a hairy discussion all together, perhaps an option should be asked if people want this part of the patch installed? I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone here it is certainly not my intention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 oh and to top it off after you don't leave he just runs around like a crazy man, I even watched him run out the door behind me like he was trying to get out of the estate all together and warn all his guards, and I would prefer not to have to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Confirming Hana's results. It's a thief mission. Sneak. Problem solved. Aringoth is not your friend so there should be no expectation in the game that he'll be cool with you barging into his home like it's nothing. Also, the quest does not require you to interact with him in any way. I ran through it initially, cleared all objectives, and got back out again without ever seeing the guy. So, really, there actually isn't anything for us to fix here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 Confirming Hana's results. It's a thief mission. Sneak. Problem solved. Aringoth is not your friend so there should be no expectation in the game that he'll be cool with you barging into his home like it's nothing. Also, the quest does not require you to interact with him in any way. I ran through it initially, cleared all objectives, and got back out again without ever seeing the guy. So, really, there actually isn't anything for us to fix here. sure the quest doesn't require it but there is an optional objective to get the key from him, even a persuasion and intimidate option, Brynjolf even ask's you to finish the quest peacefully. also on the top floor there is an item required for another quest for Delvin, the bee statue. also there's a Bee jar, which is a unique item. I'm not saying you shouldn't steal these but, just because the quest can be done without ever seeing Aringoth doesn't mean it should be. I just can't see how this does not apply as something broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 I'll also say this, I thought the point of the game was to be able to play the way you want to play it, if you want to sneak you should be able to sneak, but if you don't want to sneak it shouldn't make things harder on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 I'm done. thank you for at least taking a look at it. I'll just use the older version of the patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 I'll also say this, I thought the point of the game was to be able to play the way you want to play it, if you want to sneak you should be able to sneak, but if you don't want to sneak it shouldn't make things harder on you. Actions have consequences. Bethesda's philosophy of "play the way you want" doesn't translate into "all methods of play are exactly equal to each other". As far as using the older version of the patch, that's your choice, but keep in mind that with the door still open for BGS to issue further updates, you'll likely end up in non supportable territory by insisting on doing that. Plus it seems rather silly to abandon a whole mess of fixed issues over one thing that in the end is really rather silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 Actions have consequences. Bethesda's philosophy of "play the way you want" doesn't translate into "all methods of play are exactly equal to each other". As far as using the older version of the patch, that's your choice, but keep in mind that with the door still open for BGS to issue further updates, you'll likely end up in non supportable territory by insisting on doing that. Plus it seems rather silly to abandon a whole mess of fixed issues over one thing that in the end is really rather silly. if that happens I just won't use the patch then, xbox players seem to do just fine without it. I would obviously prefer to use the patch, that's why I came here in the first place, but you refuse to see an issue where there is one, and I obviously can't change your mind, so I'll just do what I have to do to preserve the game the way it was meant to be. once again thank you for taking the time to look at the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Actually, it appears to be you who's refusing to see the issue where there is one. Also, in insisting on this, you need to be absolutely sure you're prepared to deal with the consequence to your game. Rolling back far enough with the USKP to be rid of this fix for Golden Glow means you'd need to go clear back to version 1.2.5. Which means it WILL NOT be compatible with Patch 1.9. Your game is almost certainly guaranteed to crash due to things we had to update to remain compatible with the currently supported official version of the game. By my reckoning that also means you're literally cutting out HALF of all the fixes the USKP has ever done, based on the length of the changelog since December 15th. As far as "the game the way it was meant to be" it was not intentional that thievery be possible with impunity in a property not owned by a friend of the player, regardless of its status as a quest location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 Actually, it appears to be you who's refusing to see the issue where there is one. Also, in insisting on this, you need to be absolutely sure you're prepared to deal with the consequence to your game. Rolling back far enough with the USKP to be rid of this fix for Golden Glow means you'd need to go clear back to version 1.2.5. Which means it WILL NOT be compatible with Patch 1.9. Your game is almost certainly guaranteed to crash due to things we had to update to remain compatible with the currently supported official version of the game. By my reckoning that also means you're literally cutting out HALF of all the fixes the USKP has ever done, based on the length of the changelog since December 15th. As far as "the game the way it was meant to be" it was not intentional that thievery be possible with impunity in a property not owned by a friend of the player, regardless of its status as a quest location. look you broke the game, and you refuse to fix it, that to me is an issue. before the patch you had 2 options, you could fight your way threw or you could sneak, now you have one option or Aringoth literally breaks. this is an issue. you act like I'm being childish but if this is such a small issue I don't see why you can't just undo it or make it optional. yes I get it you steal an item you have consequences I get that, in fact my character has yet to steal an item, because I'm trying to play a noble character. I find it strange that your more willing to put in the effort to chastise me for not wanting to use the patch over this then your willing to put the effort into fixing the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Might be because as Hana and I have already established, there is no issue in need of correction. No. *WE* did not break the game. That, unfortunately, falls on you for using a play style incompatible with the Thieves Guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 Might be because as Hana and I have already established, there is no issue in need of correction. No. *WE* did not break the game. That, unfortunately, falls on you for using a play style incompatible with the Thieves Guild. okidoki if you say so, thanks for the concern the old version of the patch works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Actually, no, the old version doesn't "work great". There are factually objective things about a version old enough to revert the Golden Glow fix that *WILL* cause problems for your game at some point. So you need to keep that in mind should you ever need to ask for future support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suiei Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 Actually, no, the old version doesn't "work great". There are factually objective things about a version old enough to revert the Golden Glow fix that *WILL* cause problems for your game at some point. So you need to keep that in mind should you ever need to ask for future support. yeah I would stop calling it a "Golden glow fix" thats BS its not a fix there was NOTHING broken. its more of a "Golden Glow Preference" I should probably just say you refuse to allow anyone to play the game in a way that doesn't fit your idea of "doing the thieves guild quest correctly" if the game ever breaks I wont be asking for support from you, in fact I probably wont ask for support at all I would just re-install the game and never download your patch again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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