FCOM installation guide

[Tommy]

Arthmoor, on your post in Beth Forumshttp://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1153649-complete-installation-guide/page__view__findpost__p__16889341I just MUST comment on this here because I'm sick and tired of posting on the topic there. :lol:You see, your idea of a FCOM Wiki is another perfectly sensible, good, easy to implement and just a wonderful idea, the perfect solution really. But it just get's stonewalled! Psymon argued perfectly reasonable on it as well. Team Alpha just refuses to see that "there is a problem". It's hopeless, they're hopeless. A Wiki would not even create a whole lot of work. Shared work and Arkngt could just be the editor-in-chief and see that no nonsense is being written or amended... It's disgusting. One could even come to the conclusion that the miserable documentation is by design. Which totally contradicts the aim of the mod, as of course these superhero modders want FCOM to be as popular as possible.... I just don't get it... I have a hard time too sitting on my mouth, but I know whatever I'll say it will not be considered.II really should not read that thread anymore, it makes me sooooo ANGRY...But feeling better now!!

[Arthmoor]

Yeah, I don't get it either. I mean hell, I gave an honest assessment of how I feel about their installation directions after having read through them. They're a mess, confusing as hell, and when I say I wouldn't even attempt it, I'm not kidding. I know my way around BOSS, Bash, BAIN, OBMM and the nitty gritty of the game to the point where I do some downright dangerous things at times and get away with it.What was their response? A veiled insult about how if someone knows BOSS, Bash, how to install mods, FCOM is a piece of cake to deal with. The evidence just isn't there to support the claim though. Every day the forum has more and more FCOM install problem threads. So clearly something is wrong there.FCOM even has a page at the UESP, but from what I can tell, it's being jealously guarded. I get the impression they'd raise a stink if people showed up to turn it into a useful document.All I tried to do was offer a suggestion on how to solve the problem. They don't appear interested. Well, fine then. If that's how they want to roll, let them. As I said from the outset, I have no stake in it. I'd never use FCOM unless you paid me. It just isn't what I want from the game.

[Tommy]

The evidence just isn't there to support the claim though.

Exactly!! But no' date=' there is no problem. What a joke! I should probably cut back on my FCOM help as well. The best we can do is just shut the f**k up! They don't want to hear it.I'd like to post them the proposal that potential FCOM installers should video themselves and their desktop, and what they're reading, doing etc. when installing it. This would be fun and could be shock to them... :lol:In any case if you good Folks in here want to install FCOM, please let me know, I'm happy to guide you or would upload the correct resource files for you to streamline your install as good as possible. It took my about 3 days overall to get it done but it would start correctly on the first go. Arkngt does have a point though, in that if you (that if can be BIIGG though depending on your patience and perseverance) succeed with it once, it actually is not so illogical anymore. So just saying again, if you want to give it a try let me know and I can spare you a great deal of frustration. However, be ready to spend a weekend on it installing this "wonder"....Basically repacking the many downloads in some BAIN archive is the way to go. Because the downloads are full of outdated files or not needed files or non-recommended files, just a lot of clutter creating a lot of insecurity and doubt when installing. THAT is the main problem, that the downloads are not streamlined and straightforward.

[prettyfly]

...hacks into internet network at holiday home...Right, um, I've installed FCOM several times (though I've gotten rid of it now as it was too much for my system and causing me CTD's, so I cut back to OOO and stripped down MMM) and it is nowhere near as hard as it might seem from the installation instructions. It is of course however, quite intimidating for the outsider, because the instructions are spread out over a variety of spots.But if you do know bash, boss, bain and obmm fine then you won't have any problems. But a lot of people who try to install it don't know these things fine and consequentially get issues. That's not going to change.However, a single, all inclusive and completely update installation guide isn't going to hurt anything, and its a pity that the FCOM team isn't interested in developing one.

[Conner]

In any case if you good Folks in here want to install FCOM' date=' please let me know, I'm happy to guide you [/color']or would upload the correct resource files for you to streamline your install as good as possible. It took my about 3 days overall to get it done but it would start correctly on the first go. Arkngt does have a point though, in that if you (that if can be BIIGG though depending on your patience and perseverance) succeed with it once, it actually is not so illogical anymore. So just saying again, if you want to give it a try let me know and I can spare you a great deal of frustration. However, be ready to spend a weekend on it installing this "wonder"....

If it's as bad as all that, and Samson's reaction certainly leads me to think it must be, I'd have to ask what benefit it serves to go through all it takes to get it installed. I mean, if it really adds something worthwhile and/or it's absolutely required for something *must have*, maybe it's worth it, but if it's not really doing anything significant anyway, why would someone put themselves through it?

[prettyfly]

Well, FCOM is an combination of four very good overhauls, and as a result it adds an enormous amount of content. So yes, it is definitely worthwhile (I enjoyed it a lot while I ran it). That doesn't mean it is to everyone's taste though, and as Samson makes quite clear, it isn't to his. And in your case Conner I suspect you'd be far more satisfied with something that's simpler and easier (and still really good) like Frans or TIE or the likes (or both, thanks to Samson) than the bitch of a job FCOM is.

[Arthmoor]

Well their veiled insults aside, the directions for the thing are just too convoluted and scattered and frankly irrelevant now. They don't even want to admit that their primary team leader pulled up stakes and went to go have a life by starting a family. He has time enough to drop in to the bethblog for a quickie comment but his deliberate absence from the rest of the forum is so obvious it hurts. He didn't even make a clear handoff of authority for any of it. Then people wonder why the forums fill up with the install help or CTD help threads and invariably they ALL have FCOM installs involved.Seems painfully obvious to me that someone who knows their stuff is going to have to just break down and write up a modernized guide for the thing AND properly package it using BAIN Wizards and then hand it to Corepc or someone else on the team and badger them into going with it. Even then it's unlikely they'll accept it. So I don't know if it's really worth it for someone to bother.The only portion of FCOM that's worth a whole lot in terms of general content is probably OOO. So it's no surprise I've seen a lot of people simply deciding to go with OOO as their core overhaul and leaving the rest out. Frans is good for a light handed approach geared mainly toward loot variety and a few extra creatures. That's why Frans works so well with TIE because TIE handles most of the rest of it. TIE is excellent for a light handed approach to a general overhaul because it doesn't require a metric ton of resources. A single 5MB ESP file and you're off to the races. I have no idea if Warcry is any good, I've heard all that is is a hodgepodge of Diablo-esque weapons and armor thrown into the game with a few Diablo style creatures tossed in for good measure. MMM of course being a massive overhaul of creatures, which by all accounts is pretty good, but it's major heavy on resources and system demands.The game and the modding scene have all evolved and I think part of the problem is that it's all left FCOM in the dust. People are realizing this, slowly, but they are realizing it. It's been over a year at least since OOO was given the 1.34beta5 label. I don't see why it takes this long to test something and declare it good. I gather MMM underwent a major revamp in the last 6 months or so, so I can see why that's taking so long. But now they're tying COBL into everything and pretty soon you have a ginormous intertwining mess that's sitting around with no perceptible improvement in almost 3 years time.Bash's woes after 287 certainly can't be helping things since that complicates the entire process. You have the opposite problem there. Stuff has a tendency to come out with almost no testing.Now look what I've gone and done. I made a big rant

[Conner]

@prettyfly: Ok, I think I understand, and on that advice, I think I'll go with Samson's Frans+Tie combo instead then. If this is that challenging and Samson's combo of the other two will accomplish essentially the same thing anyway.. @Samson: Sometimes a rant is well deserved.

[prettyfly]

@conner: I'll have to try that one myself someday...though I don't have Shivering Isles so I can't use it right now. Anyway, maybe its time that I actually stuck with one overhaul a character up to a decent level....@samson: No, I think that rant is justified enough.

Seems painfully obvious to me that someone who knows their stuff is going to have to just break down and write up a modernized guide for the thing AND properly package it using BAIN Wizards and then hand it to Corepc or someone else on the team and badger them into going with it. Even then it's unlikely they'll accept it. So I don't know if it's really worth it for someone to bother.

The OMOD scripts are quite useful, though there still isn't full coherency for the thing. Instead there is a massive mish-mash of updated files from varying locations to deal with. To be honest, I can't see why CorePC can't take the lead role of the projects; he's clearly extremely competent at this sort of stuff and by my understanding he did the last update. If Dev_AKM can't stay involved then someone else needs to take over.

he only portion of FCOM that's worth a whole lot in terms of general content is probably OOO. So it's no surprise I've seen a lot of people simply deciding to go with OOO as their core overhaul and leaving the rest out. Frans is good for a light handed approach geared mainly toward loot variety and a few extra creatures. That's why Frans works so well with TIE because TIE handles most of the rest of it. TIE is excellent for a light handed approach to a general overhaul because it doesn't require a metric ton of resources. A single 5MB ESP file and you're off to the races. I have no idea if Warcry is any good, I've heard all that is is a hodgepodge of Diablo-esque weapons and armor thrown into the game with a few Diablo style creatures tossed in for good measure. MMM of course being a massive overhaul of creatures, which by all accounts is pretty good, but it's major heavy on resources and system demands.

I've always liked Frans for its simplicity (and new armors...I really like them). As for Warcry, other than the bad-ass trophies which you could use instead of shields, the only thing I ever noticed from it when I was playing was some red-skinned goblins called 'fallen ones'. Odd...And as for MMM, well, I have trouble playing without it, even though sometimes I think its unnecessary. Anyway, I'm trying for a OOO/stripped down MMM approach (I still miss Frans armors...). I'm hoping that it will be fairly stable (after some bad experiences with FCOM and Frans/MMM), but only time will tell.

The game and the modding scene have all evolved and I think part of the problem is that it's all left FCOM in the dust. People are realizing this, slowly, but they are realizing it. It's been over a year at least since OOO was given the 1.34beta5 label. I don't see why it takes this long to test something and declare it good. I gather MMM underwent a major revamp in the last 6 months or so, so I can see why that's taking so long. But now they're tying COBL into everything and pretty soon you have a ginormous intertwining mess that's sitting around with no perceptible improvement in almost 3 years time.

Kinda inevitable when you have a bunch of people working in their spare time on something that's probably more complicated than the creators of Runescape have to deal with.

Bash's woes after 287 certainly can't be helping things since that complicates the entire process. You have the opposite problem there. Stuff has a tendency to come out with almost no testing.

At least they appear to have a cohesive command structure over there after Wrye backed off...

[Arthmoor]

The OMOD scripts are quite useful

I have no such vaunted opinion of OBMM in general. The thing is a hackish mess most of the time and I still to this day don't see why anyone puts up with it. Especially now that BAIN has effectively replaced it. People swear by it' date=' but it has zero intelligence for dealing with overlapping resources and it's scripting is a monumental pain in the ass to build a package around.

Kinda inevitable when you have a bunch of people working in their spare time on something that's probably more complicated than the creators of Runescape have to deal with.

Not inevitable. When you get yourself so twisted in knots that you can't release one mod without the others you end up in a paradoxical situation where because they're all interdependent, you can't release any of them. That's just plain bad management at the core. There's no reason any of them should have allowed a situation where they're all painted into a corner and can't get out now.

At least they appear to have a cohesive command structure over there after Wrye backed off...

Oh, too true. Bash/BAIN didn't really take off and become the great tool it is now until Wrye finally let go and allowed it to grow as needs rose.

[prettyfly]

I have no such vaunted opinion of OBMM in general. The thing is a hackish mess most of the time and I still to this day don't see why anyone puts up with it. Especially now that BAIN has effectively replaced it. People swear by it' date=' but it has zero intelligence for dealing with overlapping resources and it's scripting is a monumental pain in the ass to build a package around[/quote']Don't worry, I agree with you in full about what you said there, but in those particular cases (MMM, OOO and UFCOM) the OMOD scripts make things easy, deal with most installation problems for you and in these cases overlaps aren't really an issue. Still, I'd rather be using a BAIN wizard, but since there aren't any, in this case OMOD is the way to go.

[Conner]

@conner: I'll have to try that one myself someday...though I don't have Shivering Isles so I can't use it right now. Anyway' date=' maybe its time that I actually stuck with one overhaul a character up to a decent level....[/quote']Hmm, that requires Shivering Isles? I've got the game of the year edition so I'm pretty sure that I've got Shivering Isles too, but I guess if you don't..

[Dallen68]

Talking ab out BAIN wizards, how the hell do you make it go? I put the package in the BAIN installers folder; open wrybash, click on installers and [sound of crickets chirping]. :sad:

[Arthmoor]

You have to right-click on a BAIN package that has a wizard and tell it to use the wizard. The option won't be available if no wizard is included.