Making signs for businesses.

[Hana]

Is there a 'best practice' for signs?I notice the existing textures are only 256x256. Can I make a 512x512 one? I find quality of textures much better that way.Is there a certain font to use, or can I be as creative as I want to be without being silly?

[Dwip]

My road signs tutorial is moderately applicable, but:- Pretty sure my AFK_Weye signs are all 512x512, but I may be wrong.- Most shop fonts are Kingthings Petrock. I'm not sure what the IC one is, but I figured out an approximation and mentioned it somewhere in one of the old blog threads. I can find it if you care. Pretty sure all signs are either Kingthings Petrock, an IC sign, or the one-off Drunken Dragon sign.- This resource was helpful to me, and I apparently forgot to credit it in AFK_Weye's readme, so, er.- I found it useful to grab a texture for the shape of sign I wanted to use, lasso tool the wood part, delete it so I got transparency, then go find a wood texture I wanted to use, paste it in behind, and work from there with fonts, symbols, etc. I believe there's already a blank IC sign texture.

[Arthmoor]

One of the texture packs I downloaded for signs has most of them in 512x512 and even a few in 1024x1024, though I think 1024x1024 might be pushing the bounds of silliness a bit on something that small.How's that sign symbol resource work out? Is it easy to get rid of the purple background or is that just the illustration for the upload?

[Hana]

- ok, 512x512, check- But do they have to be Kingthings Petrock? I used a custom font and I think it looks alright.- Ick, rather find my own images.- Yeah, I grabbed hammer&axe sign and used that to size up mine.For the curious, my first sign.

[Dwip]

@SamsonThe symbol resource includes a .psd file, which Gimp can open. Everything's in layers, so you can just copy/paste. I think Nexus has a couple more versions, too. As I recall it needs some resizing for 512x512, but it's not a big deal. It doesn't have every single variation on things, but I didn't find that to be a big deal either.@HanaisseAs always, it's your mod, so do your thing. That said:- Good sign, though I dislike your font choice (hard to read), and I'd make the mug symbols bigger by a tad.- As I say, almost all of the vanilla signs are Kingthings Petrock, unless you're using a fairly nonstandard sign retex. A different font WILL stand out. You might not think so, but it will. Personally, I find that sort of thing somewhat immersion breaking. YMMV.- Ditto on the symbols. Most of the signs in the game use the same limited set of symbols, and again, not using those will stand out, which can either be good or bad. FWIW, Lucius' sign in AFK_Weye is custom.

[Arthmoor]

Yeah, I think I figured it out. Not used to dealing with layers. It looks like they'll copy fine with transparent background, which is good. I don't like the fact that they'd need to size up to 512x512 though because upsizing never looks all that great.The genericness of Cyrodiil's signs is something that bugs me to death, so indeed YMMV, because the same boring old sign everywhere is immersion breaking for me. That's why I've downloaded some sign retex mods to fix that issue.

[Hana]

Yes, I was going for a new, unique look without going too far. I will not conform!!!! :grinning:I could only find Darn fonts in my Ob folder, but smart little me decided to peek inside the misc.bsa and found kingthings. You are right that the font I used is hard to read, but it is pretty. I'll have to find another use for it.Eh, not as smart as I think. Windows 7 doesn't like .fnt files, won't let me install it.

[Dwip]

Petrock is on this page, somewhere.You can't use Oblivion font files straight up. I forget if there's any kind of converter. Most of them are available on the web various places, I think. I know there were a few threads at Bethsoft about it.

[Hana]

Cool! Oooo lots of nice stuff there..

[Conner]

I like your sign, Hana, and would happily stop there after a weary day of travel for a tankard, though I would agree that the mugs could stand to be a smidgen larger, but I'll side with Samson about the immersion thing. Back in the day they didn't have mass production and business signs were all hand made, the idea that they'd all be uniform throughout the realm is totally ludicrous. In fact, if there isn't some variation between signs it just looks silly and after awhile downright boring. On the other hand, if you used a font that's too different it would also stand out in a bad way because the style of writing in general wouldn't vary anywhere nearly as much as it does today... in fact, if we're talking about historical accuracy, most signs are purely symbol because most people can't read anyway, but there's still more to the variation in the style of those symbols than even just the artistic talent involved.

[Hana]

Thanks Conner Version 2. Yes, it's supposed to look dirty and cracked, it's near the harsh ocean afterall.

[Dwip]

Previous comments on mug size apply.Also I wish you could make your lettering bigger while keeping the flourishes, but I'm not sure how you'd do that.I'm not sure I'd ever drink at a place with a skull and crossbones on the sign.

[Conner]

Well, it's certainly more legible.. You know I don't give idle flattery but I also don't like to give harsh criticism when I can avoid it either... With that said, I have to ask, given that most people knew the name of the pub by it's signs symbols since they weren't able to read, what do the two mugs clinking together over the skull & crossbones signify in this case? If we weren't able to read the name of the pub written across the top, would we assume it's something like Jolly Rogers' Cheer? Or maybe The Final Deal?

[Arthmoor]

I like version 2 myself. Dwip's just being overly picky about the mug sizes, they're fine

[Dwip]

I am that guy.Actually I'm more concerned about the text size. I'm not entirely sure it will as readable as it perhaps ought to be. As I said, though, not quite sure how to fix that.

[Hana]

Hehe, Conner, you pretty much guessed it. It's a sign for a tavern owned by pirates. That's all I'm going to say at this point.

I'm not sure I'd ever drink at a place with a skull and crossbones on the sign.

Found this very funny. You're the second person to say that. Does it make sense now that it refers to pirates and not poison? lol

Actually I'm more concerned about the text size.

Don't be. It's exactly the same text size as all the other vanilla signs. I had a layer of an existing sign to make sure. Plus removing the drop shadow should make it easier to read. If I wasn't so lazy I'd put it in game to check.Thanks for all the comments, guys.

[Dwip]

Fair enough. I remembered text size being larger, but didn't check.And pirates, poison, kind of six of one, half dozen of the other.

[Conner]

Have to admit, whether the skull & crossbones is meant to refer to pirates, poison, or just danger in general it's not an encouragement to enter the establishment unless you're on the shady side of the law anyway. But you had said that it was a coastal town, and you've expressed fascination with pirates for awhile now, so I can't honestly say it was that much of a stretch. ;)I still say that, while the place may be called Hana's Pub by the sign and the owner, the sign's symbols will likely lead to the main clientèle calling it something entirely different like "The Pirate's Party" or "Celebration of Death" or "Drinking with Death" or some such.

[Hana]

Ooo, drinking with death sounds cool.

 

Hana's Pub is just a placeholder name anyway until I can think of something appropriate. Your suggestions are great, Conner, just a little long and wordy for a small sign. Keep em coming though, lol.

 

Arrr, I be a pirate.

[Conner]

I'm working with what I've got here.. ;)The problem with the wordy part is that a typical name's likely to start with The and be a couple of words describing the picture, if not starting with The Pub Of The or starting with The and ending with Pub. So, 3-6 words is pretty hard to avoid, and a sign with two raised mugs toward each other over a skull and crossbones is a lot to describe in only a couple of short words... Hmm, so far I'd already suggested:Jolly Rogers' CheerThe Final DealThe Pirate's PartyCelebration of DeathDrinking with DeathLet's see, how about:Raised Brew (or "Raised Rum" which sounds better but doesn't quite match the sign)Mug o' Poison (Dragona's suggestion)Death's Draught (or "Death's Draft")Pirate's PenanceDangerous Brawls (Dragona's suggestion)Drunken Jolly Roger(Obviously, any of these could/should be preceded by "The" and/or proceeded by "Pub" ...or preceded by "The pub of the". I'm trying to keep them as short and sweet as I can though since you'd said the previous ones were too wordy.)If you need more, let me know, I'm sure I can come up with others, but those are what I've got so far for ya'

[Arthmoor]

Death's Draught has a certain ring to it.

[Conner]

:bowing: Thank you, gentle sirs and ladies, me merely hopes that my wit might produce something of charm enough for thy tastes and meself be greatly pleased that at least one suggestion of mine hath provoked a positive response from each of those who hath spoken back so far.

[Dwip]

I kind of liked the Final Deal or the Pirates' Penance myself, but.

[Conner]

Then I've pleased all three of the regulras of this discussion, albeit not it the same suggestion. [Edit] Dragona has requested that I add "Death O' Stein" to the list.

[Sigurð Stormhand]

Hi Hana,I like the sign (I also like the names Conner came up with, but ay).I'm not sure about the shade of Red though, how about giving it a black border or something so it doesn't jar quite so much with vanilla Oblivion.Oh, and I live just over 30 minutes from St Petrock's in Exeter (that's walking)Weird.