Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch - USSEP and versions of SE

[Tonycubed2]

How would you guys handle this dilemma I am having with USSEP and the newest creation kit in general?  I upgraded to 1130 because I do not believe in staying way behind in versions even for favorite mods.  I eventually got all the ones I love to work so life there is good.  But I have many old mods that would have no advantage going to 1130.  They are simple creations.  But if I save them in newest creation kit it will require Se version  of 1130 or higher.  I hate to do that to people.  I noticed USSEP requires 1130 and higher now.  I was downloading it to my shadow pc in order to carry over changes to a populated series mod, like water records and so on.  But now I have a similar issue with the creation kit.  A lot of people will not be able to use it.  I also noticed that the older versions of USSEP are not being made available on nexus. i was hoping to compromise and make the Populated series mod carry over changes from an older USSEP on the premise that something is better than nothing.  The more I update my older mods with the new creation kit the less people will be able to use them.  

I hate the thought of having to have a version of the older creation kits somewhere.  I also hate forcing people to pick between my mods and older versions of se.  My time to play is so limited and same for modding.

Thoughts?

Edited March 5 by Tonycubed2
typos

[dovahkiinbear164]

Have you considered BEES - Backported Extended ESL Support? It allows for people who are on older versions of SSE to use the newer 1.71 files. It's something the mod users would have to install and use. I personally don't use it as I try to keep up with the latest SSE/CK versions if possible and am on the latest version. The longer people hold onto older versions of a game makes weighing that decision more and more comoplex as time goes by. They sacrifice one group of mods for another and that's just how it goes. BEES is an option for the users, but I'm sure it will have it's problems.

[Scythe Bearer]

Personally, I bit the bullet.  I decided that it was easier and more effective to just keep everything current.  So I dropped my LE versions of mods when SE arrived.  I verified (and upgraded) my mods when the 1.6 version of SE came out.  As of this writing, I no longer directly support my mods on anything  but the current Steam or Xbox store versions of the game  If my mods work on the GoG version then fine, but I don't directly support them on that version of the game.   

[Pseron Wyrd]

I too keep everything current.  Over time, I believe the majority of players will inevitably migrate to the latest version of the game.  So I think this will become less of an issue as time goes on.

I just want to say that Ultimate Deadly Encounters and Spawns, Genesis and Sleeping Encounters are must-have staples in every game I play.  I dearly love those mods and cannot imagine playing Skyrim without them.  So, for purely personal reasons, I hope you keep your mods current.  But I support what ever decision you choose to make. 

[dovahkiinbear164]

I sure hope more players move onto the current version of the game. I have a bunch of mods that I love whose mod authors are bogged down with work on making sure multiple versions of their mods are available for people on older versions. Those mod authors had plans and updates for mods I'd love to use, but those plans were sacrificed in favor of keeping up multiple versions of their mods for people on older versions. It's already a lot of work to get mods to work for LE/SE/VR and then different versions on top of that is a huge time sink. I greatly appreciate your mods and they've also been a staple of my load order pretty much the moment I had SSE running on Linux. It would be frustrating to see your creativity, time, and fun diminished by keeping up with different versions. It will suck away your time more than you'd expect, judging by other mod author's experiences. And I understand not wanting to ditch part of your mod user base because of different versions. It's hard enough to get people to try a mod let alone like it and keep it! So, I understand the desire and dedication behind trying to serve your mod user base. BEES is an option, even though it's perpetuating the problem a bit, and with it you won't have to sacrifice your time on the issue. And as much as I hope people will stick with the current version of the game, there are a lot of guides telling people to downgrade for various reasons and not even for compatibility reasons. Newcomers to Skyrim are downgrading without realizing the complexities involved. (I've had people who never played Skyrim before ask me for SSE support on Linux who decided to downgrade because the information they read said it was "better". I personally don't recommend downgrading to people, especially anyone on Linux because of the extra layers of complexity involved.) So, unfortunately, there will always be an influx of people who want older versions supported. It's not just the people who have been around since those versions came out. You'll have to weigh your options and do what's best for you and I hope that you'll be comfortable with your decision. I also support whatever decision you'll make because I don't think there's an easy answer for any mod author when it comes to this issue. Good luck.

[Arthmoor]

I'm sure I don't need to mention it, but my personal policy, and obviously that of the UPP as well, is to only provide copies of mods for the current version of whichever game it is that's being worked on. For Oblivion, that's easy as it hasn't been updated in 12 years. For Fallout 4, that may soon change with the next-gen update. For Skyrim, yes it can be slightly annoying, but given that nothing I make in particular needs SKSE to run properly it isn't usually a big deal. Most "old" mods will continue to work just fine on whatever the current version of the game is.

USSEP is one of the exceptions to this general rule because it has to keep in sync with all of the changes made in each update. This makes it considerably more work than would be feasible for those folks who insist we support years old versions of the game. It just isn't practical nor is it necessary. Especially when any new players coming into the game for the first time will be on whatever is most current anyway. The updated mod header version is also of little consequence. Other than needing to be on at least version 1.6.1130, there's nothing more the average player needs to do.

The problem, as usual, comes from placed like reddit where everyone and his dog is telling anyone who drops by that they NEED to use things like the downgrade patcher or crazy hacks like BEES just to get the game to run. But then if you spend any time at all watching the posts, most people having issues with their games are the ones who followed the bad advice that's being given. Which just leads to even more problems when those folks show up at a mod author's page demanding they support the situation they put themselves in. I've seen very few instances of people with crashes or mod glitches on the 1.6 branch of things.

In your situation, with little time to spend on things to begin with, I'd recommend just sticking to the current version of the game. Your fans will adapt in time, even if they complain at first. After all, you're just as entitled to enjoy your time spent modding the game as they are to enjoy playing a modded game.

[jaydawg55]

After a long time playing other games, I came back to Skyrim recently in the middle of the Anniversary hoopla and multiple version changes. God help me, but I liked the Anniversary content -- and I loved using mods!

But now many SKSE-dependent mods from my past are not yet compatible with game version 1170 (despite what moddingwiki says). It is also not yet clear if other enabling mods that allow still other mods to operate properly are compatible yet ('frameworks' and animation-related mods for example). Many people want to blame Bethesda but the modding community has created a complicated mess that was bound to break down sometime. Resetting the game version backward only postpones the inevitable.

For me and people like me, the choice now is to (1) avoid mods dependent on SKSE and similar enablers, or (2) quit playing the game and go do something else less frustrating. Or am I going wrong somewhere? 

 

[dovahkiinbear164]

1 hour ago, jaydawg55 said:

After a long time playing other games, I came back to Skyrim recently in the middle of the Anniversary hoopla and multiple version changes.

I also jumped into SSE modding only recently, only about a year and a half ago. So the whole Anniversary version chaos was very confusing to me at first too. Also, as far as I've experienced, most SKSE mods don't need to be updated with each SSE update. If they use the Address Library, then they're fine. It's the ones that don't use it, but also don't throw a plugin error at startup, that aren't truly compatible without issues on an update. SKSE might not complain, but you will have issues, like CTDs with plugins that truly need updates. (With one of the last updates, Racemenu didn't throw an error even though it needed an update. It would work...kinda. And I would get crashes trying to run it before it was properly updated to the correct version.)

I've only got a small list of SKSE plugins and other mods that need to be updated for each SSE update. Those mods are usually updated within a week or two of the SSE update. Just prevent your SSE from updating for a couple of weeks until everything is updated, then you spare yourself frustration of other options. On the rare occasion that a mod author doesn't stick around the community and isn't able to update their mods, there's always been someone else who comes up with a similar mod that gets the job done. For example, Gear Spreader was a favorite of mine to easily distribute mod added armor. The mod author isn't around to keep up with the updates. But, Container Item Distributor and similar mods all fill the gap. One problem is when the mod that gets left behind is popular, it overshadows all the other alternatives, even if they've been around a while. You might have to do some digging or be patient for someone to make an alternative, but you don't have to stick with older versions or avoid SKSE mods of the game to get the experience you want. So your third option is to do a little digging or have a little bit of patience. You really won't have to wait as long as people claim.

I remember when I first started modding and encountering the attitude of "downgrading is better" and "avoid SKSE mods because their evil" attitudes, among others. And I've learned to put any advice, especially the most popularly spewed advice, to the test. Whether it's from Reddit, Steam, Nexus, a popular mod author, or whatever, there are a lot of attitudes floating around that don't have grounding in reproducible evidence, like SSE 1.6+ is super magically unstable. (I had hundreds of hours on SSE vanilla on Linux without a single crash or other serious issues.) And downgrading comes with a lot of problems and headaches that aren't obvious at first. It causes hard to track bugs and crashes. I've read through many mod pages, while looking for other information, only to find repeatedly that downgrading was the cause of an issue. Those kinds of problems are best to avoid as they seem to be some of the most complicated for both mod users and mod authors to troubleshoot. Keeping up to date with the latest versions isn't as painful as it sounds, and I've been able to do it all on Linux without much of a hassle.

[Arthmoor]

2 hours ago, jaydawg55 said:

For me and people like me, the choice now is to (1) avoid mods dependent on SKSE and similar enablers, or (2) quit playing the game and go do something else less frustrating. Or am I going wrong somewhere?

No, that's pretty much the best advice one can get at this point. Either avoid the SKSE dependencies or set the game aside for a few months to let the dust settle. It usually does. People eventually move on, and after this much time on 1.6 if any mod still hasn't updated that needs to, ditch it.

[Scythe Bearer]

There is a ancient snippet of wisdom which has it's origins from a time when bandits were a common occurrence on the highways of China.  "In the pursuit of a long and healthy life, you must be prepared to abandon you baggage; several times".  I think this little saw applies to so much more than travel on ancient byways.  It even applies to mods and modding a game. 

 

[smr1957]

6 hours ago, Scythe Bearer said:

There is a ancient snippet of wisdom which has it's origins from a time when bandits were a common occurrence on the highways of China.  "In the pursuit of a long and healthy life, you must be prepared to abandon you baggage; several times".  I think this little saw applies to so much more than travel on ancient byways.  It even applies to mods and modding a game. 

 

Great quote and great advice, Scythe!

 

As is Arthmoor's post, here:

 

Edited March 8 by smr1957

[jaydawg55]

Good advice, all. Thanks.

I am a little embarrassed with myself for taking so long to reach that realization. But I am working with Wrye Bash again and getting my load order rebuilt. A couple of test launches have worked well so far.