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Dragon Heart Scales, one per dragon or one per cell?


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I recently discovered that the dragons in certain locations do not drop Dragon Heart Scales on second or subsequent visits.  (Yes, I have the knife and it is equipped).  It appears that the script for the dropping of Dragon Heart Scales locks the drop for subsequent visits to the same cell. 

I seem to remember that Dragon Souls had a similar issue early on, but that got fixed. 

Could this be a similar bug?

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Honestly, Scythe my friend, I'm not sure if this is a bug or not.  I have not encountered this before in my game.  It could be that both rules apply, one per dragon AND one per cell but IDK for sure.  I do know that one per dragon is a rule.  

The only thing I found in the bug section of the fandom wiki is... "Dragons that do not burn to a skeleton, releasing their soul, may not yield heart scales when searched."  If this is the case for you then the cell may not have anything to do with it.  The UESP wiki had nothing relating to heart scale bugs at all, only the bit about possibly not being able to talk to Tolfdir about the scales after completing the errand but didn't give the most likely reason which was on the fandom wiki, reducing alteration skill below 90 during the quest, such as making it legendary, will cause it to fail and Tolfdir will not accept the heart scales.  Just learned that today but it does stand to reason.  Why would you make a skill legendary during a master quest for that skill?  Haha:lmao:

The fact that you say the the scales "do not drop" indicates to me that you are aware that the heart scales are in the wyrm's inventory and not physically gleaned by slashing.  I saw an old Xbox 360 post regarding that user error which I am confident is not the case here.  Hahaha:rofl:  I am also certain that you know well enough to have Kahvozein's Fang equipped in the main/right hand before access the dragon's inventory.

I have to ask though...  unless you are trying to farm the heart scales from the twin drakes at the lake in the Forgotten Vale or other multiple dragon encounter, why are you even going after a second dragon for heart scales in the same cell?  When I run the master alteration quest, I go from the nearest dragon mound to the next closest like Northwind Summit to Bonestrewn Crest or Mount Anthor to Skyborn Altar... all depending on which ones I haven't been to in a while.  

I am uncertain if this helps you but it is the best I can offer.

Adventure ever on my friend, Phat:highfive:

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6 hours ago, phatbassanchor said:

Honestly, Scythe my friend, I'm not sure if this is a bug or not.  I have not encountered this before in my game.  It could be that both rules apply, one per dragon AND one per cell but IDK for sure.  I do know that one per dragon is a rule.  

The only thing I found in the bug section of the fandom wiki is... "Dragons that do not burn to a skeleton, releasing their soul, may not yield heart scales when searched."  If this is the case for you then the cell may not have anything to do with it.  The UESP wiki had nothing relating to heart scale bugs at all, only the bit about possibly not being able to talk to Tolfdir about the scales after completing the errand but didn't give the most likely reason which was on the fandom wiki, reducing alteration skill below 90 during the quest, such as making it legendary, will cause it to fail and Tolfdir will not accept the heart scales.  Just learned that today but it does stand to reason.  Why would you make a skill legendary during a master quest for that skill?  Haha:lmao:

The fact that you say the the scales "do not drop" indicates to me that you are aware that the heart scales are in the wyrm's inventory and not physically gleaned by slashing.  I saw an old Xbox 360 post regarding that user error which I am confident is not the case here.  Hahaha:rofl:  I am also certain that you know well enough to have Kahvozein's Fang equipped in the main/right hand before access the dragon's inventory.

I have to ask though...  unless you are trying to farm the heart scales from the twin drakes at the lake in the Forgotten Vale or other multiple dragon encounter, why are you even going after a second dragon for heart scales in the same cell?  When I run the master alteration quest, I go from the nearest dragon mound to the next closest like Northwind Summit to Bonestrewn Crest or Mount Anthor to Skyborn Altar... all depending on which ones I haven't been to in a while.  

I am uncertain if this helps you but it is the best I can offer.

Adventure ever on my friend, Phat:highfive:

 

Phat, let me start by asking you a few questions.

Why do you assume that I am mistaken (or worse, being deliberately false) just because you haven't encountered this issue? 

How many people actually collect the Dragon Heart Scales after completing the Master Alteration quest, and how many would actually encounter such a bug? 

Since when do we use UESP as a source of bug reporting, tracking and remediation? 

I used the term "drop" for lack of a better one.  Furthermore, the Dragon Heart Scales are NOT in the Dragons Inventory.  They are added to the player's inventory via a script which is activated when the player searches the dragon, but only added if that special blade is equipped.  Which (oddly enough) is why the "Dragon Heart Scale added" message appears in the message area.  

As for why I collect them, I support a Mod which has weapons and armor which requires Dragon Heart Scales when upgrading the weapons.  They were used-once assets which seemed appropriate to the author to use in strengthening Dragon Slayer Armor and Dragon Slayer weapons.   Alas, none of that is germane to the problem.

The only phase of the Master Alteration Quest which is important here is the obtaining of the "fang".  Once that item is obtained, The Master Alteration quest can remain unfinished and not affect the collection of Dragon Heart Scales.  But that  isn't germane to my issue either. 

 

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This issue was already reported in 2020 by Black Swan. We fixed it on issue #28845, which was verified to work as expected. If you're not getting what you'd expect, perhaps the mod you're using to collect the scales with has modified MGRitual05DragonScript and reverted the two fixes we added there.

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39 minutes ago, Scythe Bearer said:

 

Phat, let me start by asking you a few questions.

Why do you assume that I am mistaken (or worse, being deliberately false) just because you haven't encountered this issue? 

How many people actually collect the Dragon Heart Scales after completing the Master Alteration quest, and how many would actually encounter such a bug? 

Since when do we use UESP as a source of bug reporting, tracking and remediation? 

I used the term "drop" for lack of a better one.  Furthermore, the Dragon Heart Scales are NOT in the Dragons Inventory.  They are added to the player's inventory via a script which is activated when the player searches the dragon, but only added if that special blade is equipped.  Which (oddly enough) is why the "Dragon Heart Scale added" message appears in the message area.  

As for why I collect them, I support a Mod which has weapons and armor which requires Dragon Heart Scales when upgrading the weapons.  They were used-once assets which seemed appropriate to the author to use in strengthening Dragon Slayer Armor and Dragon Slayer weapons.   Alas, none of that is germane to the problem.

The only phase of the Master Alteration Quest which is important here is the obtaining of the "fang".  Once that item is obtained, The Master Alteration quest can remain unfinished and not affect the collection of Dragon Heart Scales.  But that  isn't germane to my issue either. 

 

Dude!  I take time out of my day to do some research on your behalf and present it in a fun and humorous way and THIS is your response?  I wasn't accusing you of anything!!!  I haven't had something I've said taken so wrong in a rather long time.  Apologies for trying to help, man.  Peace out, Phat

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7 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

This issue was already reported in 2020 by Black Swan. We fixed it on issue #28845, which was verified to work as expected. If you're not getting what you'd expect, perhaps the mod you're using to collect the scales with has modified MGRitual05DragonScript and reverted the two fixes we added there.

The Mod in question is quite probably the same one that prompted Black Swan's issue.  That mod uses no scripting.  It simply uses the Dragon Heart Scales as an ingredient when upgrading weapons and armor. 

The missing heart scales hit me at three successive dragon sites, Lost Tongue Overlook, Autumn Watch Tower, and Arc Wind Point.  That three in a row is what prompted me to do a simple test. 

I went to a new dragon site, Dragon Tooth Crater, killed the dragon residing there and obtained my Dragon Heart Scale.  I then went and did the Forbidden Legend Quest, the quest for Azura's Star and a few other quests I had cluttering up my Misc Quest list.  Eventually, I went back to Dragon Tooth Crater and killed the dragon again.  No Dragon Heart scale was obtained, and I started this thread. 

For my next test, I will advance the main quest to get to Skuldofin.  That small world space has four dragons in close proximity, and if everything is as is should be, I should get four dragon heart scales. 

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Just finished Skuldilfn, and only got one Dragon Heart Scale.  I should have gotten one from each of the four dragons which reside around that area. 

Unofficial Patch level is 4.2.8.

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  • 1 month later...

I captured this video to demonstrate that a freshly killed dragon did not yield a Heartscale.  This is not the first, and I can get more videos just like this. 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ncwam2hvydimlo/Skyrim Special Edition 2022-11-09 15-02-56.mp4?dl=0

There is no no other copy of the script MGRitual05DragonScript, and as you can see here, there is no BSA/loose script in the MOD:
image.thumb.png.4debd1a7c55dbaa36e577548115a8cfe.png

Now, if you would tell me what more you might need in the way of documentation to diagnose and fix this bug, I will gladly supply such documentation. 

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