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Mysterious Murders in Solitude


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Yes, I have started my old thread here….because it is still happening!

I just visited the Solitude catacombs once more in my latest playthrough and found the serial killer has struck again.  Roggvir is the permanent resident of course, but in addition we now have coffins for:

Ildi

Irnskr

Jala

Are the city guard just ineffectual nincompoops….or are they part of the problem?  Where IS the mysterious killer…and who?

Adella:stare:

 

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I have been using this mod for years. No More Redshirts.  

It is a console command batch file that makes all the NPCs essential. I started using it when Riverwood's population got wiped out by dragon attacks.

(It works with both Skyrim and Skyrim SE.)

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17 minutes ago, Fenrus said:

I have been using this mod for years. No More Redshirts.  

It is a console command batch file that makes all the NPCs essential. I started using it when Riverwood's population got wiped out by dragon attacks.

(It works with both Skyrim and Skyrim SE.)

If that's on xbox it might help Adella but my Solitude npc's that die are all from a mod. In the quick look I did I didn't see any mention of working on mod added npc's. I think I'm going to have to do some rooting around in xedit in the mod I have and set everyone to protected. Which I have no idea where to look for that but time to learn.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Handy6373 said:

If that's on xbox

Unfortunately it is for PC only. (A quick google search. This bug appears to have been around for years, with no known cause.)

update: Cheatroom for Xbox 1 appears to have an option to also make NPCs essential and bring them back to life. Skyrim cheatroom mod on bethesda,net

Edited by Fenrus
added link to xbox cheatroom mod
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Hmm...i have to say i never noticed something like that. Don't know if i play the characters just not long enough for that to happen or if i have a mod that prevents it. But i don't know which mod.

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7 minutes ago, Rotzi said:

Hmm...i have to say i never noticed something like that. Don't know if i play the characters just not long enough for that to happen or if i have a mod that prevents it. But i don't know which mod.

Never noticed before either.  I use the unofficial patch all the time, but don't know if that's stopping it, or I just never noticed, or for whatever reason it doesn't happen for me.

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Just now, LeBurns said:

Never noticed before either.  I use the unofficial patch all the time, but don't know if that's stopping it, or I just never noticed, or for whatever reason it doesn't happen for me.

I don't use the patch but also don't use Immersive Citizens at the moment. Only Realistic Conversations and You don't know me. I have to keep an eye on this.

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Ok did some more digging around and found this info on a mod "Protect Your People", by iMACobra

 

 I know, for sure, a lot of people use NPC appearance overhaul mods because they think Skyrim NPCs look ugly but, guess what? Loading that mod after an NPC protection mod makes those NPCs unprotected again.

Hm, interesting, not sure that explains all the quirkiness of Skyrim but it may explain some. I had 3 unexplained deaths in the Riften sewers on my way to find Ezbern. No idea "how" they died but I made them live again and set them to essential. They are from the same mod that adds npc's to Solitude too. I am working on how to change there status in xedit so this doesn't happen anymore to innocent civvys.

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On 6/5/2021 at 12:16 PM, Adella said:

Yes, I have started my old thread here….because it is still happening!

I just visited the Solitude catacombs once more in my latest playthrough and found the serial killer has struck again.  Roggvir is the permanent resident of course, but in addition we now have coffins for:

Ildi

Irnskr

Jala

Are the city guard just ineffectual nincompoops….or are they part of the problem?  Where IS the mysterious killer…and who?

Adella:stare:

 

Have you tried playing without Open Cities yet?  You know about that mod's secret hiding places.  I still suspect that mod is the culprit.

Adventure on my beloved angel, Phat:wub:

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Handy6373 said:

I'm going to have to do some rooting around in xedit in the mod I have and set everyone to protected. Which I have no idea where to look for that but time to learn.

In SSedit it is found under Non-Player-Character (actor) on the left. On the right scroll down to ACBS-Configuration, under that is flags (sorted), which contains if an NPC is essential. (Right click on flags (sorted) - on the right, at the top should be the name of the mod you want to edit. Then an option list comes up to choose essential, protected.) etc..

(I have added a screenshot to my album - clearer than what I wrote above :-) )

Edited by Fenrus
Added a pic to my album.
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Adella does not want to use mods to resolve the problem.  I've made a mod that addresses this exact issue a few weeks ago:

Nexus: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/49667/
Xbox: https://bethesda.net/en/mods/skyrim/mod-detail/4213788/

And I agree that such mods should not be used and there shouldn't be a need for them, but sadly this is Skyrim.  NPCs occasionally fall from the sky, just like animals do.  There are folks around here who can explain better why this happens, but yes, it happens.  Luckily protected and essential people don't die when it happens to be them, and so you can still finish major quests, but the rest are free to take a flight every now and then and die when they hit the ground.  A while back I saw a Giant that somehow landed on top of a dragon and flew on it while the dragon made a circle.

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Thanks for all the responses everyone:hug: 

I tend to think that, in my game at least, falling from the sky is not the culprit…For these odd reasons:

Random npcs dropping occasionally from the heavens would leave bodies scattered across Solitude in many disparate locations.  However, I have found bodies only in two places.  Firstly, in the bailey zone between the two main gates.  Secondly, just outside and a little to the left of the city side gate (under the windmill) on the stone road.

In the second case, out on the road, there is usually one or two dead guards too.  At both locations some of the dead are just called ‘citizen’ which are mod added extra city traffic. Citizen and guard bodies do not get coffins in the catacombes.

Significantly…One time as I was walking up hill in the city and toward the side gate under the windmill I saw Taarie, who is often a victim, spawn-in just by the gate.  This meant she had been outside on the stone road, at great risk to her life huh?:unsure:  So, perhaps several npcs do this and some meet their end outside?  Possibly hmmm.

Making npcs protected?….Well, it might be possible using Cheat Room (on XB1).  However, that easy solution runs contrary to my play-through style.  As much as I do not like to lose npcs, especially those with little quests attached such as Taarie, Irnskr and Evette San, I also do not like a ‘rigged’ game either.  I prefer the more realistic world operation in which people can die by being in the wrong place at the wrong time much like real life, and one simply has to cope with the fallout from that.  This provides the game with an additional element of variability and surprise.

On a side note…I recently riled up a mixed level of bandity types out at Fort Greenwall.  I killed a couple, shooting as I retreated back to Riften, but the Marauder archers were two shot lethal at my 260 armour rating, so I fled into the city.  Sat in the Bee and Barb, with a bottle of Surillie to calm…suddenly a Marauder and an Outlaw spawned in through the door! Chaos ensued and people died…I did not stick around to become one of them!  I did see Keerava and Talyn running scared outside :frantics:….So the ‘Immersive Citizens’ mod was doing its job, but point being, the unexpected can take a toll in Skyrim….and I think, that it can do that is both wonderful and annoying.

Oh and…in other locations I do get the odd mammoth falling from the sky.  I recently also observed Hafrn, one of the WR stables mares, to lift off vertically then fly over the city and fall, somewhere near the Temple I imagine.  She survived and came plodding back.  Also oddly, sometimes a while after a battle, the sword or shield left at the scene, lifts off and ascends slowly skyward until it becomes a dot and vanishes, dead giants club weapons do this too! But as usual with Skyrim, such antics are random and relatively uncommon.

A.:)

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Greenwall bandits following all the way into the Bee and Barb is a glitch, dearest, the likes of which I have never even heard of before much less seen!  You have a bug there my beloved.  IDK what it is but it's definitely a bug or mod conflict!

Adventure on sweet angel, Phat:blackhand:

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1 hour ago, phatbassanchor said:

Greenwall bandits following all the way into the Bee and Barb is a glitch, dearest, the likes of which I have never even heard of before much less seen!  You have a bug there my beloved.  IDK what it is but it's definitely a bug or mod conflict!

Adventure on sweet angel, Phat:blackhand:

Well, that can not be ruled out of course sweetie, but even years ago with different mods, I had npcs follow me through loading screen doors…in fact as you may recall,  I can lure Frost trolls to High Hrothgar and get them to follow me inside…and that means through a loading screen door.  Now if you consider, Open Cities effectively merges inside and outside the city into a single cell, which means npcs can enter the city without difficulty…and certainly all attacking ones will enter if the city gates are open.  So the only loading screen door the bandits had to cross was the Inn door itself.   So, not a glitch at all really….mechanically no different to an npc following you into an out of town Inn…I have even had bears and trolls do this.

What IS surprising, is the bandits feeling driven to keep up the attack with such persistence.  Usually, entering a loading screen door (even cave entrances) is enough to put the npc Ai off.  I guess me shooting at them all the way back to Riften got them super pissed at me :lmao:

So, do I take it then, that in your game npcs do not chase you through doors, into Inns and such?  What about everyone else?  

 

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I tried a mod named "Extended Encounters" and suddenly Vex and Brynjolf visited a tavern in....i think it was Falkreath. Was a little surprised seeing them there. :o When i start a new game with a adapted loadorder i will try this mod again.

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2 hours ago, Adella said:

So, do I take it then, that in your game npcs do not chase you through doors, into Inns and such?  What about everyone else?

I've had NPCs chase me through doors that change areas.  Mine and Sah's last deaths were because of this.  As for NPCs randomly dying, I've had once Belethor die without seeing it happen.  He does venture outside Whiterun, so it must have been there.  Normally though, very few NPCs are scripted to run around in Tamriel, usually the ones that do are either essential or protected.  As you can imagine there is logic behind this, but then some NPCs are scripted to not even leave one room, so logic seems an elusive mistress.  Normally NPCs will not simply die randomly in the game, getting killed by other NPCs or deciding to rock climb.  They might if you occupy their active cells and activate enemies.  They will also not fall from the sky unless you are nearby.  So the "realism" in Skyrim is mostly limited to the area that your character is currently occupying.  I haven't noticed NPCs dying in Solitude, so my best guess is that one of your mods or a combination of them is causing this.

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1 hour ago, ikonomov said:

Snip: They will also not fall from the sky unless you are nearby.  So the "realism" in Skyrim is mostly limited to the area that your character is currently occupying. 

Well naturally poppet :D.  Action can only occur in a loaded cell (thankfully) meaning you are fairly nearby, although not necessarily visible.  I presume scripted/game or necessary action further away is set by some kind of engine managed timer so the game knows to activate those events as you approach, but that is not for minor npc comings and goings huh.

Thank you for confirming npcs follow you through loadable doors…npc deaths: You are likely correct about mods being the cause…at least in the subjects roaming around outside, since a mod or two adds realistic daily routines.  As to cause of death, be it falling, murder or simply dropping dead…We have insufficient evidence as yet.

Ok….so a little fun test might be to note the positions of npcs in a room…leave via loading screen…Then go back inside after say one minute.  Did they move?  Was it only positional? or did some spawn in/out due to you loading the interior hmmm?

A.:D

 

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With help from Fenrus I made my mod added npc's that were dying in Solitude "protected" in xedit soooo this shouldn't happen again. I also found some from that same mod dead in the Riften Ratways with 0 reason to have been dead. All npc's in that mod are either essential(that way from the mod author) or protected by my change. Time will tell.

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