Screwball Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 While it's great to have (Tracdown) issues posted, confirmed and fixed in 24 hours, I do feel that many much older, existing issues are being overlooked. For example, in the Papyrus category (which was only created last September) there are currently 9 pages of unconfirmed issues, and 6 pages of confirmed (but not fixed) issues dating back to when the category was created (bar a couple which were moved there from other categories and are even older). No criticism of the team or its members (or others who provide fixes) is implied or intended here - no one has to do a damn thing if they don't want to - but I do feel that, as a courtesy to those (not just me, I hasten to add) who post issues, that those older issues would benefit from being addressed, maybe in preference to newly created ones, until the backlog is cleared (or at least substantially reduced). Again, no criticsim is intended and I'm not trying to tell anyone how run the project, but It would be great to see some movement on them as having old issues (in any category) lying around unaddressed may discourage players from posting issues which could (think critters or weapon racks) turn out to be quite important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPete Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I might be wrong, but I think that many of the unconfirmed papyrus issues are ones that Arthmoor and the other team members have been unable to reproduce yet and the confirmed issues are ones that no one has been able to figure out how to fix yet. I don't really think that they're being overlooked, but there are a few really old ones that were filed prior to the release of the Official 1.9 patch that may or may not be relevant anymore depending on what was changed by Bethesda in that update. From what little I know about papyrus, it can be very difficult to find an appropriate solution when it decides to throw certain errors, especially if the errors don't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaultDuke Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 what BP said. the confirmed older entries are once that nobody knows how to fix yet. and the unconfirmed are the ones, that nobody could confirm yet. Arthmoor goes through all the new issues with each new patch, and usually fixes those that are quickly done and closes them. all the remaining ones are those that require some additional eyes. in all fairness, the only two sections with any significant backlog are the papyrus and mesh sections. the former one is pretty new, and some of those issues are not obvious to solve (most of them started showing their head, and/or being reported not long before the section was created. mainly because before they were buried underneath massive spamming skripts. needless to say, the amount of knowledge around those skripts may yet be smaller than the knowledge about other types of fixes). the meshes are simply a lot of work to fix propperly. all in all, the uskp is steadly reducing the backlog, as evidenced by the other sections. give it some time, and the others will catch up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 It's as much a matter of perception rather than reality. An issue with no comments or change of status (severity) looks as though it has been missed/ignored/whatever - despite what may have been done behind the scenes. We (players/members) only see what's in the tracdown entry, not the stuff which goes on in the background. I'd hate to see issues not being reported because the perception was that they might be missed, so why bother... The team does a fantastic job, given the complexity of a game as big as Skyrim and despite having to rely on 3rd party tools to get things done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPete Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 It's as much a matter of perception rather than reality. An issue with no comments or change of status (severity) looks as though it has been missed/ignored/whatever - despite what may have been done behind the scenes. We (players/members) only see what's in the tracdown entry, not the stuff which goes on in the background. I'd hate to see issues not being reported because the perception was that they might be missed, so why bother... The team does a fantastic job, given the complexity of a game as big as Skyrim and despite having to rely on 3rd party tools to get things done. I understand what you're saying and everything, but I kind of doubt that this is the case. I just think that most people don't want to bother sifting through their papyrus logs to report the issues. Additionally, I'm not sure that some people even know how (or think) to enable papyrus logging in their games. Before joining this site last year, I didn't even know that such a feature existed, until it was brought to my attention, because I was completely new to the PC version of the game. I agree that Arthmoor and his team do an outstanding job, considering the massive number of bugs in this game. I have really seen a huge decrease in the number of papyrus errors, since I started using the Unofficial Patches back in October of last year. I suspect that in time, many of the remaining ones will get addressed or at least addressed the best that they can be, considering how often papyrus refuses to obey its own rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 That was a general point about unconfirmed issues - Papyrus is merely the worst case (which is, of course, why I chose it). Thing is, a number of Papyrus reports have led to what you might call "real" fixes. Things going on in the background which do adversely affect gameplay but which otherwise may only be seen by the occasional player, or only noticed once it's too late to do anything about them in the current game, and may not, otherwise, have been reported. I agree that many will not check the logs (assuming they know how to turn them on and could be bothered to do so if they do know) - they're the ones who will complain bitterly on forums yet do nothing about it. They are the ones I worry will not report things if they see pages of unconfirmed errors (regardless of category). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 There is another thing that needs to keep in mind though, because some of those old reported issues could be back from the now defunct bug16.org site or whatever domain name it once had. Also as for the record a lot of issues could be reported back when Kivan was active in the USKP team on DC 1½-2 years ago and that was before AFK Mods forum was transferred from DC to where it's today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 The first (oldest) was with 1.6.89.0.6 (Dec '12). The next one with 1.8.151.0.7 (Feb '13). And the next one with 1.9.32.0.8 (Mar '13). All the other Unconfirmed ones are with 1.9.32.0.8 and all date from Oct '13 onwards. The first (oldest) Confirmed one is with 1.9.32.0.8 from May '13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Those old issues are not being ignored. As Pete more or less pointed out, may of them are lingering because nobody knows what to do with them. When I sweep the tracker, I fix what's easily fixed. Since it sorts from newest to oldest, that can sometimes result in a fresh ticket being wiped out within an hour of it being posted. As a general rule, if a ticket has been sitting open for more than 2 months (or more than two NORMAL update cycles) it's safe to assume there's something about it that's in need of more attention. They're not being ignored, just prioritized downward. There's no sense in halting progress on other things because an old bug is in the way going down the list. Mesh bugs are something you can assume I can't solve because I don't know the first thing about 3D modeling and honestly don't have the time now. Especially if it's to attempt the work with archaic stuff like Blender. I pick off what little I can deal with in Nifskope. If something got moved to confirmed, it's been acknowledged, and if nobody has replied to it with a solution or something you can safely assume I'm not sure how to go about fixing the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Fair enough. Remember that I'm an "outsider" like most members. I'm not on the team, I have have no knowledge of the team's inner workings. I can only "say what I see" - and if I can see it then so can others. Thanks for the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 Looks like I managed to prompt some action on all those issues - many fixes (which is good ) and many other updates too, which makes Tracdown far less cluttered and, more importantly, makes it appear that things aren't being missed (I know they weren't, but this was always about the perception rather than the reality). Kudos to Arthmoor and the rest of the team! (for filling up my inbox if nothing else ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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