EngineerX Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 My Belethor was killed in a vampire attack, and Ysolda is now in the shop and has the merchant option (though her dialogue still says she's going to save up from trading with the khajiit and buy the bannered mare). The problem is that the shop is never open now that Belethor's dead and Ysolda's in charge and if I go in, she and Sigurd threaten to have me arrested. To test, I spawned a new Belethor, who immediately went into the shop and the front door became unlocked. He now stands behind the counter as he used to, and I can access the shop via Ysolda, (who seems to be standing akwardly in the wrong spot, facing the wrong direction). So the fix to transfer the merchanteering from Belethor to Ysolda, which I understand to be one of the fixes included in this patch, is working perfectly, but Ysolda didn't seem to inherhit the ability to open the store to actually conduct business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Welcome to AFK Mods! :beerchug: Please post your loadorder here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Might be something more we need to look into because it sounds like she hasn't fully inherited ownership. Although I don't know why that would matter since the shop is a public space anyway. There's also a bug buried somewhere in the game where the shop can end up not selling to you. We'll have a workaround for that part in the next USKP update, but it doesn't sound like you ran into this. Also, since it'll likely make a bit of a mess of things, you should probably console kill that copy of Belethor you spawned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EngineerX Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 Thanks guys. @Arthmoor, I saved just before spawning him so I could run a proper test without doing too much damage. Unfortunately, I don't recall how far the attack was where he died, which was likely several hours of gameplay, so for the time being I'm just going to continue on without access to Ysolda's shop. @Leonardo, let me get back to you on the load order. It's a pretty big list and I want to check a couple of things for redundancies first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hana Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 On another note, sounds like someone could use When Vampires Attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 That's okay with me. :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EngineerX Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Just an update, this morning I used player.placeatme to crate a new Belethor as before. Just as with my previous test, he immediately went into his shop, the front door became unlocked and when I entered noone yelled at me and told me I wasn't supposed to be there. As with the previous test, Ysolda had the vendor option and the new Belethor did not.... So I console-killed him. I then went to Breezehome and took a three-day nap, then returned to the shop. The corpse of the Belethor clone was gone, the door was unlocked, and when I entered Ysolda greeted me properly and still had the vendor option. Aside from her still mentioning trading with the Khajitt caravan and buying the bannered mare (which seems a little our of place with her as the new owner of Belethor's) all appears to be working perfectly at this time. I've continued to play on this save and returned to the shop frequently throughout the day and have noticed no further issues. Thank you for all the help! ^^ @ Hana - Thanks again for the "When Vampires Attack" suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceShroob Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Might be something more we need to look into because it sounds like she hasn't fully inherited ownership. Although I don't know why that would matter since the shop is a public space anyway. There's also a bug buried somewhere in the game where the shop can end up not selling to you. We'll have a workaround for that part in the next USKP update, but it doesn't sound like you ran into this. Also, since it'll likely make a bit of a mess of things, you should probably console kill that copy of Belethor you spawned. But that's impossible -- I put her in the lock list, she's in all the right factions; why wouldn't she have ownership of the store? For reference, when I tested it before 1.8, she worked perfectly, allowing me to enter and barter. Post-1.8, she opens the menu but has no merchandise -- no matter how much I screwed around with chest ownerships, service factions, etc. Hmm. In the lock list, factions -- but she won't unlock the front door. But everything is right as far as I can tell, except... Well... Sigurd is the only person not in the lock list... maybe... if he was in it...? *** Okay, so I tried putting Sigurd in the lock list, too, and I didn't see a real difference. However, using the console to give Ysolda Belethor's key (somehow) allowed her to unlock the doors. I'm not sure if it's some combination of the two things, or what. *** Argh. So annoying. Ahlam works perfectly, and she doesn't need the key... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 But that's impossible.... Famous last words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceShroob Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Well, I've utterly exhausted my resources as far as figuring out what the hell is going on. You know what I think we need, Arthmoor? A drink. Fresh eyes. Anyone want to take a look at this? There must be something I missed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 If Belethor dies and Ysolda inherit the shop. Does she get a key to Belethor's shop or not? If not the problem could be solved or if she does get a key when he dies then why doesn't she unlock the front door. I think something is missing here which affects Ysolda's behaviour to actually unlock the front door if she has already inherit the shop. The question is... What's wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedanieru Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Okay, I only just took a look at this so pardon me if I'm repeating already known things. I call this "A Tale of Four Factions". These are the four factions: ServicesWhiterunBelethorsGoods WhiterunBelethorsGoodsFaction ServicesWhiterunBanneredMare WhiterunBanneredMareFaction 2) and 4) are just basic factions that link a few NPCs together, right? They aren't supposed to be merchant factions? That's what 1) and 3) are for. But, take a closer look at WhiterunBanneredMareFaction It's totally a merchant faction! What's more, it points to BethethorsMerchantChestRef as the merchant chest! WTF is going on there? That can't be right. I don't know what the workaround in 1.3.0 is, but it does not fix this. I just checked. Another thing that I am not as sure of, is that when you look at these factions (and other pairs like them), the services faction members list often seems to be a subset of the general faction member list. Mikael, Hulda, Saadia, and Olfina are members of WhiterunBanneredMareFaction, but only Hulda and Saadia are members of ServicesWhiterunBanneredMare. Maybe Ysolda should be added as a member of WhiterunBelethorsGoodsFaction in addition to ServicesWhiterunBelethorsGoods? Again this is speculative and although it holds true sometimes there are exceptions (e.g. Arcadia's Cauldron: Ahlam is a member of the services faction but not the general faction). So maybe it's fine, or maybe there are other broken merchants that just haven't been noticed. But most definitely need to fix WhiterunBanneredMareFaction. It shouldn't be a vendor faction, and it definitely shouldn't be using BethethorsMerchantChestRef as its merchant chest. Leonardo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceShroob Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 BLUEDANIERU, I COULD KISS YOU. Your discovery that the Bannered Mare faction had improper vendor settings on Belethor's chest led me to check what was editing the chest, and I discovered that WhiterunBelethorsGoodsFaction has hidden vendor data referencing Belethor's chest. Not only that, but the vendor times conflicted with those set in ServicesWhiterunBelethorsGoods. Using TES5Edit to remove these erroneous edits not only restored Ysolda's inventory, but seems to have fixed her not unlocking the door as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 <snip> So maybe it's fine, or maybe there are other broken merchants that just haven't been noticed. But most definitely need to fix WhiterunBanneredMareFaction. It shouldn't be a vendor faction, and it definitely shouldn't be using BethethorsMerchantChestRef as its merchant chest. I bet that are other vendors that needs to be checked. You certainly put the problem into Arthmoor's *need a patch* chest without being notice. Good catch. Welcome to AFK Mods! :beerchug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedanieru Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 BLUEDANIERU, I COULD KISS YOU. Your discovery that the Bannered Mare faction had improper vendor settings on Belethor's chest led me to check what was editing the chest, and I discovered that WhiterunBelethorsGoodsFaction has hidden vendor data referencing Belethor's chest. Not only that, but the vendor times conflicted with those set in ServicesWhiterunBelethorsGoods. Using TES5Edit to remove these erroneous edits not only restored Ysolda's inventory, but seems to have fixed her not unlocking the door as well. Ha, I noticed this as well but wouldn't have thought it would make a difference, as long as the vendor flag wasn't present. Are you sure that's what it was? If so, WhiterunWarmaidensFaction and WhiterunArcadiasCauldron faction have the same issue (among others I'm sure but that's all I checked). But it's even greyed out in the editor, if that flag isn't set. Fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Not the first time rogue invisible data has caused something like this. I ran into a similar problem turning an event driven quest back into a normal quest. The event conditions were still stuck on the quest record but since the SM Event node for it was deleted the data couldn't be removed without TES5Edit. Made for quite the head scratcher since the quest refused to start even though I no longer wanted conditions on it. Makes me wonder how many other reported bugs are due to unexposed data like this. Like the weight slider thing for armor add-ons that's just been discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceShroob Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I think I figured out why Ysolda's inventory disappeared: the two vendor settings had opposite values for the "Not Sell/Buy" flag -- meaning that Ysolda apparently would have bought things merchants don't buy, like keys. I'd recommend using TES5Edit to gut any extraneous vendor data when found; true, it's only caused problems with Ysolda, but it would be prudent to be better safe than sorry. Does this mean that the workaround added in 1.3.0 will be removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Assuming your fix doesn't require it, yes. That workaround was only there to force them to be able to sell. We didn't anticipate this being rooted out quite so soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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