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Phat's Recurve Bows: addon for Nicoroshi's Bowgasm


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Hello all:highfive:

Papa Phat here with a little something to share.  I had the wonderful opportunity last year to be IRL Archery adviser as well as research monkey and testing minion to my amazing friend Nicoroshi while he remade Skyrim archery from the ground up to be more realistic, natural and certainly more beautiful than it has ever been.  Well... Nico and I don't always agree.  We always talk it out like gentlemen and it's his mod, his call, 100%.  He will occasionally make a special file for old Phat so he can publish the mod as he likes it and keep Phat happy too.  One such area where we disagreed was on the recurve bows in Bowgasm.  There are four of them in all, each comparable in shape and function to the Bear Archery recurves I learned on with Dad from age 9.  In game there are three vanilla recurve bows; Dwemer, Glass and my favorite in all of Bowgasm, Stalhrim.  The fourth is the custom recurve, Eldergleam which has it's in game model placed like a shrine to Kyne on an alter beside Eldergleam.  I wept when I first saw her, she is just that beautiful with richly figured walnut and gorgeous inlay work.  Eldergleam has ebony base stats with significantly lighter weight and enhanced bow draw speed.  Not a super cheat by any means as it does require ebony smithing to craft.  But, she is a bit faster on the draw.  

Now here's the rub...  Bowgasm has just what I described above, three vanilla replacements and one custom bow.  Well... old Phat wanted custom Dwemer, Glass and Stalhrim too!!!  Hahaha:wub:  So, this is the add on file that Nico made for me to add Phat's Dwarven Bow, Phat's Glass Bow and (the precious) Phat's Stalhrim Bow:poke:  The attached mod add on requires the vanilla replacer version of Bowgasm.  It will function with or without the other custom bows.  But, I have them all.  

So, here is where to find the original mod:  

Bowgasm SE:  
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/42929

While you are at it you may want a copy of I Want Better Arrows SE as well
I Want Better Arrows/IWBA:  
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/39494

These mods are photo realistic quality that will not cost you a single fps lost with performance friendly 2K photoreal textures.  

BTW:  Nicoroshi has fully authorized me to share the files he's made for me with friends.  The other files are links to Nico's postings on Nexus.  So, there are no worries about permissions.  Every file linked here is authored by Nicoroshi.  I just helped. :)  We're all friends here so I'm sharing :) 

42536-1606371329-358459683.jpeg42536-1606371298-1448617654.jpeg42536-1606371296-1836017513.jpeg42536-1606371293-1873294954.jpeg42536-1606371290-847754855.jpeg42536-1606371286-231049748.jpeg42536-1606071085-2118791961.jpeg42536-1606071079-1986418399.jpeg42536-1606071062-734942650.jpeg42536-1606071026-806604504.jpeg42536-1606071020-1022957749.jpeg42536-1606071013-1402985429.jpeg42536-1606071007-1474669548.jpeg42536-1606071001-451276650.jpeg42536-1606070994-32088772.jpeg42536-1606070988-1618577747.jpeg42536-1606070982-2088469011.jpeg42536-1606070976-2106294969.jpeg42536-1606070971-245453092.jpeg42536-1606070966-230122423.jpeg42536-1606070960-574514922.jpeg42536-1606070954-317703012.jpeg42536-1606070948-1492323088.jpeg42536-1606070942-401004059.jpeg42536-1606070936-1799771561.jpeg42536-1606070920-630969648.jpeg42536-1606070907-1294763785.jpeg42536-1606070900-1016379396.jpeg

Eldergleam is already a custom bow with enhanced stats.  The Phats Bows 7z mod add on for Bowgasm creates a craftable custom version of the three vanilla recurve bows as well.  These are in addition to the vanilla replacements.

The three new custom recurve bows are equivalent to the Eldergleam bow with ebony base damage, lighter carry weight and enhanced draw speed.  I love them.  I switch hit between many of the bows in Bowgasm.  My current Khajiit is using the Rivendell bow.  I've used all of them during testing and have gone back to most of them.  Hell, even the basic longbow has beautifully carved engravings that must be seen to be appreciated.  The LOD is amazing, the performance is superior and as you may have seen in some of the images here, no corners on the bent bow, gone are all of the hand and arrow misalignments...  These are the bows that should've been in Skyrim from day one.

Sharing this file is Nicoroshi approved.  Adventure on my friends, Phat:ninja:

Phats Bows SE.7z

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Nico's reply when I advised him of my posting this file here...

 

Sent Today, 08:29 PM

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Perfectly cool
You do have permission to share that with friends.
Hope they enjoy it.
These things were made for everyone to use and enjoy.
Mainly made for me first but I'm not greedy or a hoarder who wants to keep things to himself.
I would rather share them for everyone to enjoy like all the mods I use which were freely shared with me.

Keeps the wheel of gaming love rolling.
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36 minutes ago, phatbassanchor said:

the Bear Archery recurves I learned on with Dad from age 9. 

Very nice!  My family did some archery when I was small too.  It is one of my fondest memories. Each of us had our own bows.  I started out with a child-sized bow that was my treasure for many uears. It felt like a first step into adulthood, using that bow along with my parents.  We lived out in the country (8 miles from the nearest small town) so there was little risk of hitting neighbors or anything like that. It was always a treat to go to a the nearest sporting goods store each spring to select new arrows. I will never forget the pride I felt, picking out my own arrows.  I even loved the look of the colorful circles on the targets. 

Anyway, great job, Phat. I am currently starting a new Oblivion character, but I will certainly give these a try in my next Skyrim playthrough.  :beer:

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45 minutes ago, Pseron Wyrd said:

Very nice!  My family did some archery when I was small too.  It is one of my fondest memories. Each of us had our own bows.  I started out with a child-sized bow that was my treasure for many uears. It felt like a first step into adulthood, using that bow along with my parents.  We lived out in the country (8 miles from the nearest small town) so there was little risk of hitting neighbors or anything like that. It was always a treat to go to a the nearest sporting goods store each spring to select new arrows. I will never forget the pride I felt, picking out my own arrows.  I even loved the look of the colorful circles on the targets. 

Anyway, great job, Phat. I am currently starting a new Oblivion character, but I will certainly give these a try in my next Skyrim playthrough.  :beer:

Thank you Pseron :)

My first bow was my mother's 35 pound draw Bear Archery bow.  I graduated to dad's 55 pound draw Bear in my teens.  I've tried many different bows through the years, even a couple of those compound bows with the pullies.  Never really took to them but my seventy something year old cousin still uses one for deer, elk and even bear in the western Pennsylvania Allegheny mountains :)  These days I'm back to a 35 pound draw weight, this time with a couple of modern takes on the ancient composite bow.  It's still bound together like the old school counterpart.  But, uses fiberglass, hardwood and a fair amount of epoxy:lmao:  The earliest examples from the steppes of northeast Asia were made completely from animal parts, horn, antler, bone and sinew.  Atilla didn't have access to enough wood for bows.  So, they used what they had to lethal effect!  As the design moved west through the centuries more wood was added.  There are versions of Hunnish, Turkish and Hungarian composite bows in Bowgasm.  The Orsimer bow is one of Nico and my favorites, especially the custom Bloodkin Bow.  It uses a Scythian design from Hungary.  You can tell that design by the drastic curves in the "ears" of the bow.  On a composite the very tips where the string attaches are called the "ears."  That same part on a recurve or longbow is called the horns.  But, this is just a sample of the the knowledge I brought to the table when creating Bowgasm.  Nico did all the hard work... remaking all the vertices, moving all the hand placements, arrow nock points and more than I can even share here.  Nico remade Skyrim archery from the ground up and put it all into two mods, Bowgasm and I Want Better Arrows.  If you want REAL bows and arrows in your game... accept NO substitutes :celebration:  Okay... enough with the sales pitch...  apologies.....  I just love this gear so much I can't help but gush.  

Our targets were pretty basic growing up.  But, the arrows all had real feather fletching back then, none of the synthetic stuff.  But, these days I have carbon fiber shafts with screw in heads to swap between target heads and the ones made to kill things.  And, they all have synthetic fletching...  I wonder... is it still considered fletching if it isn't feather?  Hmmm...  IDK for sure.  But, I've always called them by the term fletching so to change now seems weird.  I can fully relate to picking out arrows and bows as well.  We lived in the suburbs of a mid sized Indiana town.  So, we went to the park.  They actually had target ranges back then.  Had hay bails all set up and ready, just hang your target and go :) 

I was visiting our local archery store in my home town and had a friend with me that knew I had archery training but was clueless as to my actual skill level... :rofl:  Yeah... I'm flipping Robin Hood, man.  So, we're there at the shop and I'm looking at some amazing bows when I came across the very first yew wood English longbow I had ever seen!  Well... I HAD to try it!  Its some ridiculously low price too, like a hundred bucks!  Same bow now would be five times that price easily.  So, I spoke with the store owner and he strung the longbow for me.  He gave me five decent arrows in my preferred 30" length and right as I toed the line to begin loosing arrows, I turned to my friend and said, "I'll bet you ten bucks that I can hit that deer target in the eye within these five arrows."  To which he replied, "Three."  So, I accepted the bet and drew the first arrow.  I could smell the rich aroma of the yew wood.  It was intoxicating :)  It was a sixty five pound draw but felt more like mom's old thirty five pound recurve.  It drew smoothly and easily.  I lined up my target, exhaled and released.  The arrow hit right on the edge of the eye, breaking the plane of the target and technically winning the bet.  However, I was so impressed by the bow that I immediately drew the second arrow which landed dead center in the eye.  What an amazing bow!  I can't remember if my friend ever coughed up the ten bucks or not.  But, I won the bet all the same.  I can basically stand at 25-30 paces with a dozen arrows and lay one atop the other until the bull is full.  Same target at fifty yards and there might be one or two strays, at 100 yards about half make the bull with no misses, all hit the target but there is a bit more spread.  I've never hunted game although I do know how.  Living in the city we never needed the meat.  So, I've never killed an animal larger than a mouse or rat.  I don't share living space with vermin, Hahaha:mage:  Yes... that goes for you too Mr. Dragon!  

Anyway... Phat is officially rambling...  Thank you for sharing dear friend.

Adventure on, Phat:stare:

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Rambling Phat?  No no sweetie, utterly fascinating.  I am relieved to see that despite your skill, you do not turn to the unnecessary slaughter of fine animals.  Yes, I love meat, but outside of Skyrim I am content to use the supermarket or family butcher.  No...I will not devolve into arguments with anyone on the rights or wrongs of hunting live game.  Let’s just say I would rather see Bambi or a majestic stag enjoy their natural habitat in peace, or fitted with a back mounted mini gun so they could return fire...Now that would be worth watching hmmm?:rofl:

Bows....Yes, lovely creations indeed. Almost too lovely to have been crafted by the likes of Fihada in his Solitude shop...or are they Cyrodiil imports like my fine slim cigars?  Not easy with the war on.

We have watched some little ‘Bang and Twang’ on YT and the likes of Shad and others testing modern and authentic (even genuine historic) bows against various medieval armours. Phone books and ballistics gel, all quite eye openers hmmm.

A. :whip::wub: Remember this little idea of mine?  :imp:

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1 hour ago, Handy6373 said:

Ooh that is awesome, by the way here is a pic of my Lydia from our discussion the other night(hope it's ok to add this here for you to see).

Skyrim Special Edition 6_3_2021 8_08_16 PM.png

It's from your Skyrim.  I can't think of any reason not to post her.  Your Lydia is rather lovely :)  I see why you like her :)  I still prefer my Bijin Lydia as she was what got me interested in using mods in the beginning along with the Asteria player home.  Adventure on brother, Phat:highfive:

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Shad...:rofl::rofl::rofl: 

Surely you jest.  Shad only thinks he knows a few things.  I have over 45 years IRL archery experience and fully back every single bow and arrow in Bowgasm and I Want Better Arrows as 100% authentic.  They are all patterned on real world designs and are highly detailed to the finest minutia.  They bend and move like real bows, they look like real bows and they act like real bows.  The arrows are the same, ultra realistic.  Are they fancy?  Hell yes!  I only craft the very best!  And, for the record darling, Fihada is a fletcher.  He makes the arrows.  The bows come from Beirand.  Fihada just makes the arrows.  That is what a fletcher does.  However, he also has bows for sale.

There are no official bowyers in Skyrim.  The blacksmiths make the bows.  However, IRL bows are produced by a bowyer.  Arrows are made by a fletcher.  Nico just started on a new mod back at the beginning of the year and ended up taking a break from weapons.  So, we still have a ways to go on the blades.  But, he does have a decent start on what will eventually be called Bowyers blades.  The mod proposes to add custom blades an archer would carry as a backup melee weapon.  So, there will be several daggers, short swords, sabers, maybe a tomahawk and some other blades that a Bowyer might have available in his/her shop along side the bows, just as Fihada the fletcher carries bows to sell along side his arrows. :)  So far the set has Aragorn's dagger, Hadhafang, Orcrist and my personal favorite a kopis sword similar in pattern to the one carried by Alexander the Great called Viper's Kiss :)  The kopis was my idea for an ultimate short sword in SSE.  

Here are a few images of the kopis known as Viper's Kiss :) 

44744-1611453200-745310519.jpeg44744-1611453199-895282469.jpeg44744-1611453192-970264580.jpeg

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6 hours ago, Adella said:

Rambling Phat?  No no sweetie, utterly fascinating.  I am relieved to see that despite your skill, you do not turn to the unnecessary slaughter of fine animals.  Yes, I love meat, but outside of Skyrim I am content to use the supermarket or family butcher.  No...I will not devolve into arguments with anyone on the rights or wrongs of hunting live game.  Let’s just say I would rather see Bambi or a majestic stag enjoy their natural habitat in peace, or fitted with a back mounted mini gun so they could return fire...Now that would be worth watching hmmm?:rofl:

Bows....Yes, lovely creations indeed. Almost too lovely to have been crafted by the likes of Fihada in his Solitude shop...or are they Cyrodiil imports like my fine slim cigars?  Not easy with the war on.

We have watched some little ‘Bang and Twang’ on YT and the likes of Shad and others testing modern and authentic (even genuine historic) bows against various medieval armours. Phone books and ballistics gel, all quite eye openers hmmm.

A. :whip::wub: Remember this little idea of mine?  :imp:

Bambi...

And...

The minigun...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

There are more earthy models to choose from should you prefer a more rustic appearance and those that are simply elegance personified.  I highly recommend everyone at least try the vanilla replacer.  Most of Nico's mods were still on bethnet for Xbone last I checked.  Just type Nicoroshi in the search field and click on the mods tab to the left.  They'll all come to the top for you.  Here are a few other bow models from Bowgasm with some matching and contrasting quiver selections from IWBA.  Enjoy :) 

Artaois custom and Nordic replacer...105675-1606626160-2065331422.png105675-1606626208-1830966726.png

Mehrunes Talon custom and Daedric replacer...105595-1606066831-586995651.png

Bloodkin custom and Orcish replacer...105288-1604009900-1787979382.png105288-1604009839-244081814.png105288-1604009910-730696777.png105288-1604009991-364737429.png

Dragon Longbow custom and basic longbow replacer...105149-1603129299-1526172678.png105149-1603129302-1562664604.png105149-1603129346-1809052892.png

Custom Eagle Bow and Forsworn replacer...105098-1602822765-1988068081.png105098-1602822674-1443391403.png

And, the one that started all of this, the custom Tauriel's Bow and Arrows that became an elvish replacer because Nico is as kind and generous as he is talented.:wub:37646-1600275357-975907097.jpeg37646-1600275357-926007825.jpeg102966-1589867074-2038581700.jpeg

There are many more in the total set.  I probably should've shown off the Falmer bow and quiver as well.  I actually love that bow now :)  There are essentially four types of bows in Bowgasm, Composite, Recurve, Longbow and a few hybrids.  Every one would function rather well if made IRL to the in game specs.  These are the most realistic bows ever made for Skyrim, hands down.  Just look at how well they bend in a natural arc and all of the hand and arrow placements perfectly align where they should've been on 11-11-11!  Nico had to completely rework how archery works in Skyrim just to make the bows bend properly without corners.  Tauriel's Bow was the first in Late June of 2020.  Bowgasm did not publish in full until late November the same year.  That's five full months of love poured into these instruments of beauty and death.  Apologies for gushing.  I just really could not be happier:wub:

Bowgasm, I Want Better Arrows and all of Nico's mods are available on Nexus for both SLE and SSE.  Most are also available for XBox on bethnet as well.  Nico has some loyal fans there that make the Xbox ports.  So, most are available there as well.  

Since my beloved Adella is a challenger using vanilla stats gear, I highly recommend the vanilla replacement version of Bowgasm and I Want Better Arrows.  Those mods are texture replacements only.  They fix the archery animations as well by redoing every hand position, arrow alignment, bow bend and all of the vertices to move naturally.  Early on Nico commented how awful the bow draw system was in Skyrim... So, he fixed it!  He used much of what he had learned making bows for Oblivion as the bow draw was different and more natural than Skyrim's.  So, Nico went through every step of the draw and remade everything to actually look and move like real gear.  You really have to see them in action to know what I'm talking about.  Look at the vanilla bow draw animation with the longbow and compare it to Nico's.  You'll instantly see what I mean.  The vanilla longbow shows obviously visible corners when drawn, the draw hand is several inches behind where the string is draw, the arrow stops at the string bend and none of it reaches the draw hand... also, the arrowhead pulls behind the bow hand rather than stopping before the bow.  It is AWFUL!  So, Nico fixed all of that, the arrow length, smooth bow draw, proper hand and arrow alignment... ALL of that!:wub:

All of this is in the basic vanilla replacers as well as the custom gear.  There is no affect on the vanilla performance at all.  The arrows still follow vanilla rules and do vanilla damage.  The custom bows draw slightly faster and most do ebony damage with ebony perk required to craft.  Even the custom bows aren't cheats, just more advanced.  I'm certain that the slight increase of bow speed would fall well inside the vanilla plus no more than ten percent margin.  However, You get all but the custom Eldergleam bow with the vanilla replacers.  IWBA is a vanilla replacement for all the vanilla arrows.  Arrow flight and damage are not affected at all but they do work just fine with all of Phat's favorite archery cheats as well:banana:

Anyway... really rambling on now.  It's about 2AM...  Good night my beloved angel:wub:  Kisses, Phat:wub:

Adventure on:gnight:

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I am definatly going to try this when Uncus gets off the island but that will be a while yet. Realy like the dragom long bow, I am a real fan of long bows I’m English what do you expect? When I get to the main land I’m going to pay arealy good smith to make me one of those. Pity there ar no bowers in sky rim might be a nice project for Nico when he gets his breath back. That guy in the in nby the gate at whitrun who sells hunting equipment would be a good place to start. I have a sweet ebony long bow at the moment as everything I use on the Island has to look like he could make himself. I have one question do the long bows draw to the cheek or the ear as medieval long bows did.

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2 hours ago, Uncus said:

I am definatly going to try this when Uncus gets of the island but that will be a while yet. Realy like the dragom long bow, I am a real fan of long bows I’m English what do you expect? When I get to the main land I’m going to pay arealy good smith to make me one of those. Pity there ar no bowers in sky rim might be a nice project for Nico when he gats his breath back. That guy in the in by the gate at whitrun who sells hunting equipment would be a good place to start. I have a sweet ebony long bow at the moment as everything I use on the Island has to look like he could make himself. I have one question do the long bows draw to the cheack or the ear as medieval long bows did.

The Dragon longbow and the standard longbow use the same model.  There are two main files in Bowgasm, the vanilla bows and the custom bows.  The vanilla bows and IWBA are textures only, the custom bows are an esl.  So, you can add all three files to your game with zero plugin cost.  If you have questions regarding any of the additional files, just ask.  The Eldergleam, she's custom only, like Lothlorien, Rivendell and Mirkwood.  And, without the file I attached here, the Dwemer, Glass and Stalhrim are only vanilla.  The Longbow always looks like the Dragon longbow.  But, the Dragon longbow has ebony damage, lighter carry weight and slightly enhanced draw speed.  Oh... and if you just want to try one or two of the bows before or in place of installing them all there are individual files for all of the bows.  Eldergleam and the the other three vanilla recurve models have their own mod page as do all of the other bows.  Just like the bows, there are a variety of quiver shapes and unique textures for every arrow.  The only bow NOT covered by Bowgasm vanilla replacer is Auriel's bow.  Nico and I both agree that even though Auriel's bow is over the top fantasy, it is just to pretty to change.  Eldergleam is Kyne's bow and appears in Kyne's sanctuary next to Eldergleam tree.

There are a few longbows throughout Bowgasm but the standard longbow is the only vanilla variant, there's also the Dragon longbow which has the same skin as the vanilla longbow with the fine engraving and sexy horns, just adding the custom upgrades.  The other two longbows are a bit more hybrid as they are both based on the longbow with more of a fantasy spice flair.  They are Lothlorien and Rivendell bows.  There is one other hybrid longbow based on Rivendell which gets a gloss black finish and a lovely interlacing pearl white inlay to become both the ebony replacement and custom Drow Bow.  So, there are several longbows from which to choose.  The one that is the best fit for the traditional English longbow is certainly the Dragon longbow and the vanilla longbow counterpart.  

Like I said earlier, there are four types of bows in Bowgasm, Composite, Recurve, Longbow and hybrids.  The Mirkwood short bow also appears throughout the collection as the custom Mirkwood and recolored and retextured to also be the vanilla replacement for the Nightingale bow as well as a new version that replaces the hunting bow aka the steel bow in CK as a part of my birthday gift from Nico, I Want Better Weapons Steel which also has a brand new shield :)  The Mirkwood is technically one of the hybrids as it is both a recurve and a short bow.  The LotR/Hobbit designs are direct emulations of their onscreen counterparts from the film adaptations of Tolkein's infamous novels.

Just one last thing...  All of Nico's weapons are perfectly safe to add mid-playthrough.  They have no scripting at all, just vanilla replacement textures and new stats/name/recipes for the custom bows.  You can drop them in anytime.  None of these files have a plugin either.  Photoreal 2K textures that are both lag free and plugin free.  Photoreal image quality with zero performance loss.  

Phat needs a nap!  See you when I wake brother.  Adventure on, Phat:gnight:

No worries about the spelling brother.  

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Aw sweetpea :hug:. Sorry for mentioning Shad :lmao:There are many other medieval channels testing archery performance, but I simply recalled the jolly chap doing some bow testing.  Fihada...Quite right, how remiss of me:|.  Not that I see much evidence of woodworking going on at Beirand’s either!  But then, I did only say ‘the likes of Fihada’ so y’know...broader brush hmmm!

Now, I must admit, you are tempting me you naughty boi...I might just have to dl nico’s vanilla replacer.  Yes, the released bowstring in vanilla is a law unto itself....not a problem in use, but looks awful in screenies.  I also notice that sometimes the arrows veer off course near the target as if pulled magnetically to a different one.  This is really annoying and shows up particularly badly in 3rd person sneak where the aiming reticule can be placed perfectly for a long range target, but the arrow goes to an adjacent target instead.  I am not talking drop or loft here..it’s a clear sideways redirection ruining what should be a pixel perfect pinpointed shot.

Of course, I can see it occur also in 3rd person standing, but since I do not use the crosshairs, preferring a skilful free aim judgement:dancing:, it could be argued maybe I simply missed!  But I know when it is off.

Yes poppet, those bows are very pretty, some of them call to me enticingly.  I am not into skinny bows, but the Elven style looks, well, powerful hmmm.

Oh and ‘wickedness’ oh yes, I can be very wicked :devil:, but this is my special magical non-hurty, non-marking whip type...for friends:whip:, it just makes you feel more ‘friendly’:redface:.  I got the idea from “Neocatzeo’s Resurrection Rod”  a Dwarven mace that does only one point damage, but brings dead npcs back to life....I can kill the same bandit over and over if I am feeling that way inclined:evil:, but I normally use it to bring deer etc killed in collateral damage back to life (aw bless).  So, a ‘weapon’ that does nice things (Do I recall also in Oblivion a special non injurious cudgel of some kind, I think it just sapped stamina or something...my hosts grey cells need an upgrade:teehee:).

Adella:wub:

edited fot grandma and soiling

.....and I have nico’s bows se rep, plus I want better arrows (18mb), plus nico’s craftable arrows (4mb) = Daedric, so ok for mid/late game.

If these gorgeous looking little darlings make me come over all flushed and unnecessary I will let you know Lol.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Adella said:

Aw sweetpea :hug:. Sorry for mentioning Shad :lmao:There are many other medieval channels testing archery performance, but I simply recalled the jolly chap doing some bow testing.  Fihada...Quite right, how remiss of me:|.  Not that I see much evidence of woodworking going on at Beirand’s either!  But then, I did only say ‘the likes of Fihada’ so y’know...broader brush hmmm!

Now, I must admit, you are tempting me you naughty boi...I might just have to dl nico’s vanilla replacer.  Yes, the released bowstring in vanilla is a law unto itself....not a problem in use, but looks awful in screenies.  I also notice that sometimes the arrows veer off course near the target as if pulled magnetically to a different one.  This is really annoying and shows up particularly badly in 3rd person sneak where the aiming reticule can be placed perfectly for a long range target, but the arrow goes to an adjacent target instead.  I am not talking drop or loft here..it’s a clear sideways redirection ruining what should be a pixel perfect pinpointed shot.

Of course, I can see it occur also in 3rd person standing, but since I do not use the crosshairs, preferring a skilful free aim judgement:dancing:, it could be argued maybe I simply missed!  But I know when it is off.

Yes poppet, those bows are very pretty, some of them call to me enticingly.  I am not into skinny bows, but the Elven style looks, well, powerful hmmm.

Oh and ‘wickedness’ oh yes, I can be very wicked :devil:, but this is my special magical non-hurty, non-marking whip type...for friends:whip:, it just makes you feel more ‘friendly’:redface:.  I got the idea from “Neocatzeo’s Resurrection Rod”  a Dwarven mace that does only one point damage, but brings dead npcs back to life....I can kill the same bandit over and over if I am feeling that way inclined:evil:, but I normally use it to bring deer etc killed in collateral damage back to life (aw bless).  So, a ‘weapon’ that does nice things (Do I recall also in Oblivion a special non injurious cudgel of some kind, I think it just sapped stamina or something...my hosts grey cells need an upgrade:teehee:).

Adella:wub:

edited fot grandma and soiling

.....and I have nico’s bows se rep, plus I want better arrows (18mb), plus nico’s craftable arrows (4mb) = Daedric, so ok for mid/late game.

If these gorgeous looking little darlings make me come over all flushed and unnecessary I will let you know Lol.

 

 

Shad.... :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

No worries darling... I do not dislike Shad or distrust his information.  He's just a bit of a buffoon is all...  In that regard he can be entertaining, hence my bursting into uncontrolled laughter at the mere mention of his name.  And,  what is Shad short for anyway, Shadrach?  I'm all for Biblical names, especially considering I am attached to one, David.  But, Shadrach is a bit of a clunker as Bible names go... great story...  Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego standing in the flaming furnace and not being burned because they had faith in God...  Yeah, great story... clunky name...  I suppose it could've been Abednego.  Hahaha:rofl::rofl::rofl:

As for Fihada, I was not trying to be critical and humbly apologize if I came across that way.  It was not my intent... merely clarifying who makes what.  TBH, I was more interested in pointing out that there are no bowyers in Skyrim than anything else.  Fortunately, Nico took my many years of IRL archery experience and ran with them to great effectiveness.  So, Nico is now my official bowyer, fletcher and bladesmith for the entire game.  I still use other weapon mods like Swordsman's Assortment and Scimitar replacer by RonnieMagnum, Falchion by BillyRo and several others.  But, Nico's gear accounts for around 90% of all the weapons my followers and I actually use in game.  

Huzzah for Nicoroshi!:banana:

Speaking of Fihada... If you have never asked him for arrows that will fell a dragon... His response is priceless!:rofl:

Considering that Fihada is the only archery specific vendor in the entire game, we certainly do accept your "broader brush" dearest.:celebration:

Now, to fix that derpy aim... you may not like this as we've gone a few rounds discussing this mod before... Archery Tweaks...  It really isn't as cheaty as you think it is.  Archery Tweaks simply makes arrows and bolts fly more realistically for everyone, enemies included.  In fact, the first time you storm a Forsworn camp or tomb full of draugr archers after installing the mod you may actually regret having done so!  That is, until you draw your bow to return the attack.  The description on the mod page actually seems to brag it up as a cheat mod.  But, for me 'tis 100% immersion.  Archery Tweaks does two things primarily, arrows and bolts fly at a much faster rate, much closer to actual arrow speed IRL.  So, the arrows fly faster and farther than with vanilla arrow physics.  Having loosed thousands of arrows on target IRL, I can honestly say between Nico's archery mods and Archery Tweaks, the only thing missing is the feel of the wind on your face as you draw the bow preparing to loose death upon your enemy.  The other function of Archery Tweaks is that it repairs the utterly broken Neo/Matrix type dodging of enemies.  They no longer magically appear six feet from where they were when you loosed your arrow.  They can and do still dodge your arrows, especially at greater range.  They just do so in a far more realistic fashion with a simple side step or head bob type maneuver rather than the Matrix moves.  So, I've always considered Archery Tweaks as an immersion/realism mod more so than a cheat.  It will straighten out your physics related archery ails and, like Nico's archer gear, is available for Xbox as well as SLE and SSE on PC.  I'm no longer arguing the point of including it in challenge play.  You said no and it is your challenge, your rules, 100%.  But, I still say that if you try it, you might actually like it.  It's a good mod and it works.  It's just the author's description that makes it sound cheaty, like "try my mod!" kind of verbiage.  When I compare Archery Tweak to IRL arrow flight, it's the closest match I've seen in a game... ever.  

Back to the bows...  If you were on PC you could take only certain bows you like rather than the whole set.  However, only the All In One is on Xbox AFAIK.  As to "skinny" bows?  Well, what you see in Nico's mods is the closest to real bows ever made for Skyrim.  The entire geometry of the vanilla bows is totally off.  They are heavy, clunky and totally unrealistic.  Most are thick front to back and skinny side to side, when in reality that should be opposite.  If you notice what Nico did, modeling IRL bows, the width is left to right as you look across your drawn arrow yet they are quite thin when viewed from the side.  That is how proper bows are made so they bend naturally.  Most of the vanilla bows, if made as designed in game, would curl up sideways and snap, especially that silly looking daedric thing!  IRL, it's the bow that bends, not the string stretching...  The string length is fixed and constant.  The bow is what bends.  Nico's daedric is a stylized fantasy bow yet still follows proper archery design.  The limbs of the bow must be able to freely bend front to back from strung to full draw.  As proof, take a piece of paper and bend it back and forth along the flat side... moves freely, right?  Now, attempt to bend it toward either edge without crumpling or folding it...  it doesn't work, does it?  The same is true of bow design.  The flat sections work similar to the leaf springs in a carriage.  They bend with the flats, not across them.  

The elven replacer is Tauriel's bow, made to the same specs as the film version.  The WETA Workshop bows err a bit on the fantasy side yet still follow the basic principles of a well made bow.  Tauriel's bow is a carved recurve that would be awfully stiff to draw but would function if made as modeled on screen and in game.  That is the bow that started all of this.  I made a simple and polite request to have Tauriel's bow become my elvish bow replacement.  I was using the same vanilla bow replacer that Sah still does at the time, Real Bows.  There were a few nice bows in that replacer set, the ebony and daedric in particular look rather nice... until you draw them in third person...  ugh!  But, the elvish bow in that set is a huge Asian style asymmetric monster that clips with EVERYTHING!  So, I was desperate to replace it, even if it meant going back to the vanilla elven bow!  The vanilla elven bow is pretty in appearance at least, even though it defies physics IRL.  But, Nico wrote back advising he would be happy to show me how to make a replacer and would gladly allow me permission to publish my resulting creation!  Well, if I still had the same quick study mind for tech that I did thirty years ago, that would've been perfect!  However, after several head injuries that occurred during the accidents that left me fully disabled, I'm just not as quick to learn new tech as I once was.  Nico and I discussed some thoughts on the matter after which he agreed to make Tauriel's bow into an elvish replacement.  I think some creative muse bit him in the process because as I began to share my IRL archery experience with my friend, all the lights came on and he began to create.  I told him what was wrong with the vanilla bows as well as the Real Bows mod and he soaked up every ounce of data I shared.  He then poured it all back into his creations, lovingly, patiently and laboriously meticulating every minute detail until they were all perfect.  From Tauriel as elven replacement, Nico moved to the arrows next because of all the inherent problems with them affecting every bow they touched.  He had already made some improvements in Tauriel's arrows to repair much of the vanilla derp.  But, we literally spent many hundreds, maybe thousands of hours between us over the next five months resulting in a fully remade archery system for this wonderful game we all love and play so faithfully :)  All those messed up arrow and hand positions have now been repaired and the bows arc naturally when drawn.  It's a thing of true beauty :) 

You may also enjoy the custom bows for your late game as well.  Most have ebony damage and smithing perk requirement, just lighter carry weight and slightly improved draw speed.  They aren't at all cheats like my Faster Bow Draw mod that accelerates to four times vanilla draw speed at skill 100 for archery.  These are just slightly enhanced with the vanilla plus 10% type variance allowed within the challenge rules.  I've told Nico many tales of my challenge friends and their endeavors.  In fact, the new shield mods Nico made are also challenge friendly with glass stats for the light and ebony stats for the heavy models.  He was making shields for himself.  That is how all of his mods start, something he wants to see in game.  But, he also takes reality and fan input into play as well.  So, he made the shields challenge friendly just for our dear friend Sah, the original shield maiden :)   

I'm hoping now that Nico has his new machine up and running that he'll take some time just to enjoy his gameplay.  Then, once he's ready, we'll return to the digital forge once again to finish the remaining shields he has planned then we can get back to Bowyer's Blades once more.  As much as I would love to say that you would enjoy what we're making there... they are all on the cheaty side... not god tier weapons by any stretch... But, just as an example, Hadhafang has a carry weight of 4 and swings more like a glass dagger than a saber and my favorite, Viper's Kiss has a carry weight of 5 and swings more like an ebony dagger than a short sword.  They all have ebony damage and smithing perk required.  So, not some demigod cheat until I get my crafting cheat hooks into them.  But, they are rather quick to cut, thrust and block.  Those were all my requests that Nico liked as well...  Hell... Aragorn's dagger has a carry weight of only 2 and swings like an iron dagger!  It's really fast!  I love that blade!  But, those are all custom items rather than vanilla replacements.  For other weapons as vanilla replacements, Nico has I Want Better Weapons Iron and the latest IWBW Steel that he published as a B-day gift for me.  I'm hoping that we can do the Dwemer weapons next... maybe by Christmas. :)  I'm hoping that over the next few years that we can replace a few more vanilla weapons sets in addition to whatever custom madness we can dream up.:bunny:  

And, yes darling... you may "resurrect" me anytime, as often as you wish.:mage:

Adventure on my precious angel, Phat

PS:  Try the dreadweave arrows from craftable arrows.  I love all of Nico's arrows.  But, those are really nice!  Daedric equivalent damage without requiring a daedra heart.  You'll need a few quills though :)  Nico has a penchant for including interesting ingredients in his crafting recipes, many take firewood, deathbell, nirnroot, horker tusk, mammoth tusk and other interesting combinations.  Fun stuff :)  Vanilla recipes are 100% vanilla.  But, he has fun with the custom recipes :)  Like wisp wrappings to make Sword of Thranduil :)

BTW:  Arrows vs armor... by true experts... 

 

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Gosh, you write a lot when you get excited.  I shall have to get you excited more often :teehee:.  Ok, video:  I am sure I have seen this one, but I gave it a full rewatch anyway.  I do like the way they tried so hard to get an authentic result, very committed.  However, for me it conjured a comical imaginary enactment of soldiers watching incoming arrows like an outfield catcher, puffing their chests forward and running to ‘catch’ arrows with a square on centre chest strike.  In reality a nice clean, front and centre strike would be far less likely than the multitude of other possible angles.  In particular, a strike to a partially turned soldier would indeed test that thinner side armour hmmm?  Plus of course in reality, the targets were moving haphazardly and at  range, so any hit was luck.  Picking off individuals was not the game play, as you know the accepted and understood tactic was to loose volleys, subjecting the troops to a rain of arrows.

The extreme test of shooting at Ten metres was the least realistic of course. I mean if the enemy army is that close you have lost already…Unless Legolas is your model archer:banana:

:wallbash::crash: Noooooooooooooooooo!  I could cry with anger.  All that writing, my lovely crafted paragraphs….gone.  Damn thing switched into that combat thread…why? Was it me? Did I tap something at the screen edge?  Stupid iPad is close to getting my stiletto through it :bat:.

Calm Adella, calm…sheesh! At least it restored the lines above. Ok…so….

Bows: Nico’s bows are beautiful…although I think Skyrim would require a reimagining to match the craftsmanship appropriately.  For me the ebony bow has to be the coolest and best looking fit.  It is elegant and refined without being ostentatious…Rather like me in fact:celebration:.  Yes, I would be proud to own such a fine bow.  Sadly it is only ebony in output and at end game I really want a bit more draw against top Falmer.  
Next the Daedric bow…sublime.  Lovely shaped limbs, but less about me. The glowing runes do match the in-game Daedric aesthetic really well, however we Ranger types prefer to keep a low profile, especially on the prowl.  I bet those red lights show up a lot at dusk, and in the shadow of the forest canopy hmmm?  
So..On to Dragonbone: Not as cool to admire as the other two imo, but it does have the extra punch. Colour wise of course it is a light ivory which is hard to accessorise nicely unless one is going all dragon bits armour too.  Having said that, I do have a lovely white dress and heels outfit I like to wear and it would go splendidly with that.  Oh I don’t know,  I can’t decide yet.

Arrows: <Chuckles> I had already decided upon the Dreadweave, for the quiver if nothing else. It matches similarly my aesthetic appraisal of the ebony bow rather well.  I must say I don’t really go for all those bright purple, orangey and gilt finished colours except at parties:D.  Now I do like the non-garish Dreadweave fletchings too, although Nico has made them require quills….Do you know how hard it is to come across quills in Skyrim?  I shall have to hope the Bard’s College(*) and Thalmor Embassy have a few. The damage output of course, is merely one point under Dragonbone, which is perfect for end game foes.

Yay!  This is about where I got to when the iPad/forum wiped it…So now I am hitting “select all…copy” every five minutes ha!

Back to it…

Archery Tweaks. Hmmm, well, I have never seen speed of arrow flight as an issue, although faster does mean needing less lead against moving targets and less time for them to dodge.  My concern is really the sideways redirecting of some shots….I think….Well it is somewhat obvious, that the game engine is trying to auto guide the shot (badly) and having a second viable target (bandit!) very close by confuses it.  Thankfully it does not cause problems too often and it is really the long shots where it shows….BUT, it should not do it at all, right!.  I want my shots to hit naturally and so if I miss it is down to my poor judgement, not the game interfering hmmm.

Challenge Cheat…Well, yes a small mod induced departure from vanilla is permitted upto 10% in the lower challenges and 5% in the advanced challenges, but we can’t have those with access to certain mods having an advantage.  
For example console players do not have access to all the mods available to PC players, Playstation players do not have access to certain XBox mods and Switch players have pure vanilla only (afaik).  Since my challenge frameworks are an open invite to all…I must exercise care when testing and rule setting.  I should also say….the mindset is hard to break and using anything advantageous in my regular play also now feels all wrong, very naughty and laden with gilt.  Yes, yes, silly I know:rolleyes:.  To really feel I have the upper hand, I must survive the game on its own turf….Some will get that, others won’t.  Besting it with advantageous mods feels like a pyrrhic victory to me, but it is a very personal mind set hmmm.

Oh…and um’ resurrecting you…I shall try not to to read twix the lines:redface:, but ostensibly I would need to use Neocatseo’s special mace upon your dead body…..and I don’t want you to have a dead body darling.  Though I often want to end my dull headed nitwit host who can’t type for toffee!

 Adella:wub:

*…Well the Bard’s College did not seem to have any quills, neither do general traders it seems.  Where do we get them?

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Adella said:

Gosh, you write a lot when you get excited.  I shall have to get you excited more often :teehee:.  Ok, video:  I am sure I have seen this one, but I gave it a full rewatch anyway.  I do like the way they tried so hard to get an authentic result, very committed.  However, for me it conjured a comical imaginary enactment of soldiers watching incoming arrows like an outfield catcher, puffing their chests forward and running to ‘catch’ arrows with a square on centre chest strike.  In reality a nice clean, front and centre strike would be far less likely than the multitude of other possible angles.  In particular, a strike to a partially turned soldier would indeed test that thinner side armour hmmm?  Plus of course in reality, the targets were moving haphazardly and at  range, so any hit was luck.  Picking off individuals was not the game play, as you know the accepted and understood tactic was to loose volleys, subjecting the troops to a rain of arrows.

The extreme test of shooting at Ten metres was the least realistic of course. I mean if the enemy army is that close you have lost already…Unless Legolas is your model archer:banana:

:wallbash::crash: Noooooooooooooooooo!  I could cry with anger.  All that writing, my lovely crafted paragraphs….gone.  Damn thing switched into that combat thread…why? Was it me? Did I tap something at the screen edge?  Stupid iPad is close to getting my stiletto through it :bat:.

Calm Adella, calm…sheesh! At least it restored the lines above. Ok…so….

Bows: Nico’s bows are beautiful…although I think Skyrim would require a reimagining to match the craftsmanship appropriately.  For me the ebony bow has to be the coolest and best looking fit.  It is elegant and refined without being ostentatious…Rather like me in fact:celebration:.  Yes, I would be proud to own such a fine bow.  Sadly it is only ebony in output and at end game I really want a bit more draw against top Falmer.  
Next the Daedric bow…sublime.  Lovely shaped limbs, but less about me. The glowing runes do match the in-game Daedric aesthetic really well, however we Ranger types prefer to keep a low profile, especially on the prowl.  I bet those red lights show up a lot at dusk, and in the shadow of the forest canopy hmmm?  
So..On to Dragonbone: Not as cool to admire as the other two imo, but it does have the extra punch. Colour wise of course it is a light ivory which is hard to accessorise nicely unless one is going all dragon bits armour too.  Having said that, I do have a lovely white dress and heels outfit I like to wear and it would go splendidly with that.  Oh I don’t know,  I can’t decide yet.

Arrows: <Chuckles> I had already decided upon the Dreadweave, for the quiver if nothing else. It matches similarly my aesthetic appraisal of the ebony bow rather well.  I must say I don’t really go for all those bright purple, orangey and gilt finished colours except at parties:D.  Now I do like the non-garish Dreadweave fletchings too, although Nico has made them require quills….Do you know how hard it is to come across quills in Skyrim?  I shall have to hope the Bard’s College(*) and Thalmor Embassy have a few. The damage output of course, is merely one point under Dragonbone, which is perfect for end game foes.

Yay!  This is about where I got to when the iPad/forum wiped it…So now I am hitting “select all…copy” every five minutes ha!

Back to it…

Archery Tweaks. Hmmm, well, I have never seen speed of arrow flight as an issue, although faster does mean needing less lead against moving targets and less time for them to dodge.  My concern is really the sideways redirecting of some shots….I think….Well it is somewhat obvious, that the game engine is trying to auto guide the shot (badly) and having a second viable target (bandit!) very close by confuses it.  Thankfully it does not cause problems too often and it is really the long shots where it shows….BUT, it should not do it at all, right!.  I want my shots to hit naturally and so if I miss it is down to my poor judgement, not the game interfering hmmm.

Challenge Cheat…Well, yes a small mod induced departure from vanilla is permitted upto 10% in the lower challenges and 5% in the advanced challenges, but we can’t have those with access to certain mods having an advantage.  
For example console players do not have access to all the mods available to PC players, Playstation players do not have access to certain XBox mods and Switch players have pure vanilla only (afaik).  Since my challenge frameworks are an open invite to all…I must exercise care when testing and rule setting.  I should also say….the mindset is hard to break and using anything advantageous in my regular play also now feels all wrong, very naughty and laden with gilt.  Yes, yes, silly I know:rolleyes:.  To really feel I have the upper hand, I must survive the game on its own turf….Some will get that, others won’t.  Besting it with advantageous mods feels like a pyrrhic victory to me, but it is a very personal mind set hmmm.

Oh…and um’ resurrecting you…I shall try not to to read twix the lines:redface:, but ostensibly I would need to use Neocatseo’s special mace upon your dead body…..and I don’t want you to have a dead body darling.  Though I often want to end my dull headed nitwit host who can’t type for toffee!

 Adella:wub:

*…Well the Bard’s College did not seem to have any quills, neither do general traders it seems.  Where do we get them?

 

 

 

The video was testing arrow vs armour rather than demonstrating battle tactics.  The archers on the field at Agincourt would've been aiming for the soft spots, the belly, inner thigh, under the arm and at the neck.  Those are the effective targets against that style of cuirass and most plate mail in general.  The very first arrow loosed in that video was a kill shot to the abdominal artery.  I think that may have been a point of pride for the archer and potentially a subconscious act.  Like, if I'm going to bounce this whole quiver off the chest piece, I'm at least killing this thing first!  Hahaha:rofl: 

That curved plate design with the raised central ridge actually faired much better than I thought it would.  It could potentially deflect modern firearms within certain caliber limits.  I'm fairly certain that most rifle rounds could shred it but handgun rounds would likely bounce right off.:frantics:  

Those archers DID take well aimed shots.  This was not random occurrence.  They took careful aim to the soft spots.  If they couldn't get a decent shot on the rider, they'd shoot his horse.  Horse goes down, man goes down.  Now I have my shot at the rider while his legs flail about in the breeze as he tumbles.  Loose, next target, loose, next target, loose...  Yes... they used careful aim.  I just shake my head when films make archers look like idiots, blindly loosing arrows into the air.  Half the time they're aim is three hundred yards down field when the enemy is within fifty yards!  So, no dearest... this was never intended as a tactics video.  It was simply answering the question, "Can these arrows penetrate this armor?"  That is all.  

What impressed me the most were two things, the armor's resilience and the archer's prowess in the art of archery.  That bloke knew the stroke!:banana:  That was a 160 pound English longbow.  Now, longbows are a fair piece easier to draw than a recurve because the weight is stretched out over a much longer area.  I mentioned above how the 65 pound longbow I had tried drew more like mom's 35 pound recurve.  But, that was still 160 pound draw!  There is no comparable recurve even at 90-100 pounds.  They just don't make them AFAIK.  Stiffest recurve I've ever seen was 75 pounds.  So, I have to give HUGE kudos to that muscle backed Brit and his longbow.  That was an amazing display.  If it would've been a video answering "How did medieval archers combat plate armor?"  We'd have seen a hellfire rain of neck, underarm, belly and crotch shots the likes of which few have seen before.  I can actually hit more accurately, just with a much lighter bow.  I currently have two 35 pound composite bows.  With that bow I can pretty much kill anything that walks or crawls within about fifty meters.  But, I would've looked pretty silly even daring to attempt to draw that 160 pound longbow.  That is a monster bow and an even greater monster archer!  

Bowgasm:  The vanilla bows are all still vanilla.  All the custom bows have ebony base damage with slightly enhanced draw speed and lower carry weight.  Except for the Daedric and Dragonbone custom models, Mehrunes Talon and Dragon's Bane.  The most bad@$$ base bow in Bowgasm before upgrades is Mehrunes Talon.  It has daedric damage without the significantly higher weight of the vanilla bow.  It's a fair piece faster than Dragon's Bane so the one additional point of damage to dragonbone level is lost by the weight and speed differential.  Pretty sure the dragonbone would've looked better with a larger carving.  You can see all the amazing detail up close but it gets lost beyond arm's reach.  They were really close during testing but the Talon has the slight advantage, especially after tempering and enchanting.  I usually give one to Jenassa and Lenka when they tag along.  Lenka is a custom dark elf that reminds me a bit of Barbi Benton.  It's the big dark eyes and the hairstyle.  Oh... and only you can see the runes glow.  That effect is for the player, not the enemy.  They only glow for you darling:wub::poke:

The ebony and custom Drow bow are the tuxedo in the collection.  I'm still after Nico to make a matching quiver.  I love the ebony quiver.  It just doesn't match the tuxedo.  However, the ebony bow does pair well with steel, daedric and dreadweave quivers as well as Nord Hero, Stalhrim, Glass and a few others.  Nico likes the Orchish arrows with it.  I prefer to go white tie with my tux choosing Nord Hero or Stalhrim for my tuxedo bow.  TBH, the ebony bow is the same mesh as Rivendell, just a new shiny black skin with pearly white inlays.  

With that fine and lovely white gown I would recommend the Nord Hero Bow and arrows or the Stalhrim... Glass would look smashing as well.  I do not have that gown.  But, I do have images of Elisif in white equipping the glass bow and arrows...  Take a look...154953932_2837443209807578_3019720135094

I do have other images that have the glass bow as well as the glass arrows.  This is the elven replacer, Tauriel's bow with the glass arrows above...  TBH, I think the glass and dragonbone both look great with white, black, purple, blue and red.  

Quills...  You don't need to find many.  Just snagging the few laying about on writing tables is usually sufficient as one when combined with the other ingredients makes at least 50 arrows.  I think it's actually 100 per batch.  It may be Tauriel's arrows that do the 50 per batch.  However, I do believe that Old Salty Croc is correct with the Rieklings being a good source for quills.  They hoard all sorts of items most players consider junk until they need one:rofl:  There are at least a few laying about that should be guaranteed as well as there being a very high percentage for random junk in every container.  Quills, rolls of paper, inkpots, iron pots, kettles, cups, plates... all that crap.  So, looting a few Riekling outposts is an exceptional suggestion for quills :)  Thanks Salty:highfive:    Oh... and I'm pretty sure that it was Nico who put a pile of quills on the hearth in Sleeping Giant.  They're on the first corner near the front door, at least ten or twenty...  I always grab those.  If you have Phat's Purple Glass Arrows installed there are 100 of those on the dinner table in Delfiend's room as well...  Just a couple helpful hints:highfive:

Tweaks:  Trust me... they can and do still dodge, especially at range.  But, in defense of my archer's honor, I did clear all of Valtheim with Nightshade last session... from the path.  Yes, from the path...  I thought surely at least one would hide, mais non!:celebration:  I was half way up the hill to the west when I realized I had not killed any but the soup guard first pass enroute to Annekke.  So, I stopped before being spotted and entered stealth, drew my bow and dropped the new soup guard in one shot.  Then we crept up just a bit closer to the south tower, just close enough that I could now make out the archer up top and dropped that one when three more suddenly appeared on the bridge.  Dropped all of them in one shot kills after spending a few extra arrows to make them turn and go to my advantage.  Then, finally, the archer on the far bank...  It was right about 75 meters, give or take.  I could hit that IRL, at least catch me a lung or guts if not the heart.  But, I wasn't sure if I could hit him in game at that range, especially if he detected the arrow.  Fortunately, Phat's OP sneak held.:ninja:  I aimed just above his head and released, hoping to be close enough to draw him to the bridge for a better shot.  But, the arrow found it's mark center mass and ended the threat, location cleared.  It was like fish in a barrel for me that day.  But, in all reality, Tweaks makes tougher shots possible instead of "meh, why bother?"  With vanilla arrow physics the arrows die and fall off about half that distance.  Archery Tweaks supersedes all that vanilla derp.  So, you arrow flies true.  The enemies still hear those longer shots coming and dodge.  There is no "gimme."  You still have to hit that tough shot on your own.  That is why I'm still patting myself on the back for that final shot at Valtheim!  I impressed my own damn self:lmao:

:whip:You feel me?:wub:

Mod Access:  Not every mod I mention is challenge friendly.  Phat's Purple Glass Arrows give the player a hundred ebony equivalent arrows in Sleeping Giant upon arrival, just open Delfiend's door and take them.  However, all the mods I've suggested for you are all available for SLE and SSE on Nexus as well as bethnet for Xbox.  They are all free DL's as well.  I know where my beloved Adella lives and plays.:wub:   Paystation sucks.  So, they don't count.  

Anyway... all I suggested was the vanilla replacements for the challenge play and that you might wish to try Archery Tweaks, that you may actually like it if you tried it.  It really is a level playing field until I add in my OP sneak cheats.  Then look the hell out because Phat is a stealth killing machine!:rofl:

Resurrection...  I'm not dead!  I don't want to go on the cart! 

 

Hahahaha:rofl: 

:whip::whip::whip::whip::whip:Resurrection... of a different variety... wink, wink, nudge, nudge... 

Since you have the ability to craft the dreadweave arrows, check the hearth in Sleeping Giant.  There should be a stack of quills amid the various pots and pans laying about the hearth.  

Adventure ever on my beloved angel:wub:  Kisses, Phat:wub:

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Agree that the long bowmen were definitely expert marksmen, but as the oncoming enemy horsemen were at maximum rang they would of fired aimed volleys and as they got closer more carefully aimed, but still maintaining a high rate of fire. The strength of a heavy cavalry charge is their mass and cohesion hitting a stationary defending force, the defending force tries break up that formation as quickly and efficiently as possible. That would be with long range volleys then at closer range aimed covering fire going for the horses and soft spots on the enemies. Also if possible the ground in front would be prepared with stakes and pits to cause more disruption of the charge.

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4 hours ago, Uncus said:

Agree that the long bowmen were definitely expert marksmen, but as the oncoming enemy horsemen were at maximum rang they would of fired aimed volleys and as they got closer more carefully aimed, but still maintaining a high rate of fire. The strength of a heavy cavalry charge is their mass and cohesion hitting a stationary defending force, the defending force tries break up that formation as quickly and efficiently as possible. That would be with long range volleys then at closer range aimed covering fire going for the horses and soft spots on the enemies. Also if possible the ground in front would be prepared with stakes and pits to cause more disruption of the charge.

Well also you are aiming for the horse, not the rider.  A much bigger target.  Take out the front line horse and you can take out two or three behind it also.  The armored riders, often strapped to the horse would be lucky to just have broken bones if not fatal internal injuries, they are out also.

The bows and arrow I've made are more paleo in design, much after the work of the early American Natives.  Those were mostly the short/medium straight bows.  Enough to bring down a deer at close range.

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12 hours ago, Uncus said:

Agree that the long bowmen were definitely expert marksmen, but as the oncoming enemy horsemen were at maximum rang they would of fired aimed volleys and as they got closer more carefully aimed, but still maintaining a high rate of fire. The strength of a heavy cavalry charge is their mass and cohesion hitting a stationary defending force, the defending force tries break up that formation as quickly and efficiently as possible. That would be with long range volleys then at closer range aimed covering fire going for the horses and soft spots on the enemies. Also if possible the ground in front would be prepared with stakes and pits to cause more disruption of the charge.

My point exactly, brother, they aimed.  It was not the mindless volleys we see in films.  The bows they use on film sets are very low draw weight and need to be elevated very high just to get the arrows out of camera range. Haha:rofl:  IRL, the targets were charging in on steed or foot.  So, the archers would've been aiming just slightly above level, maybe five or ten degrees at most.  At fifty or so yards out, one need only elevate the arrow by an inch or two, especially with such an incredibly strong draw to the bow.  I believe at Agincourt the archers had the high ground, in which case they would've actually been aiming down toward their intended targets.

On screen in films I see the archers aiming a foot or more above level.  Shots like that with a longbow would sail well over the enemy and off into the woods.  My point is these archers practiced hitting small targets in motion at various ranges.  They could hit those small soft targets because it was do or die with every arrow loosed.  Not all hit their mark so yes, they relied on being able to reload, re-aim and loose again on target quickly.  They did work in tandem as well loosing organized volleys at first until the command to loose at will.  But, each archer was selecting individual targets to loose death upon... that was my point.  What they did took nerves of steel, iron will and eagle eye skill.  

I won't bore my friends here with all the charts and graphs explaining air speed velocity changes vs bow draw weight, arrow/draw length and arrowhead weight.  Archers just know these things by feel having loosed thousands upon thousands of arrows with the same bow in a variety of conditions.  

We do not disagree in these matters brother.  We are merely seeing the same point from slightly different angles.  This tells me I most likely did not explain my point as well as I would've liked.  Humble apologies for any miscommunication.  You make very valid points.

Adventure on dear brother, Phat:bunny:

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8 hours ago, LeBurns said:

Well also you are aiming for the horse, not the rider.  A much bigger target.  Take out the front line horse and you can take out two or three behind it also.  The armored riders, often strapped to the horse would be lucky to just have broken bones if not fatal internal injuries, they are out also.

The bows and arrow I've made are more paleo in design, much after the work of the early American Natives.  Those were mostly the short/medium straight bows.  Enough to bring down a deer at close range.

Excellent point dear brother! :)  Yes, the horses were frequently targeted in combat.  As I said earlier, when they could not hit the rider, they certainly did aim for the horse!

Nico and I opted against making any Native American flatbows/short bows.  They just didn't fit the aesthetic we were going for in Skyrim.  We did consider them though.  The one short bow we did model was Mirkwood which is a short recurve model.  But, we did pay homage to the Native American archery culture in several of the quivers like the Forsworn, Dragonbone, Nordic and several others.  Those are covered in leather, trimmed in animal fur and have various conchos and feather adornments, much like the native tribes of North America.  Although the Forsworn bow is a composite design that actually predates the flat bow by a few centuries, at least in known history, Nico had the Native American tribes in mind as he designed their gear.  I had always seen them as just another form of bandit in game.  Nico showed them a lot more love which has since enhanced my own appreciation of their tribal culture.  But, I'm still no fan of hagravens! Hahaha:rofl:

There are three primary bow types exemplified in Bowgasm, the longbow, the recurve and the composite.  We chose the longbow for the simple design rather that the flatbow as they are already in the game.  Variations of the composite and recurve have been showing up on Nirn for some time as well.  

Thanks for sharing, brother.  Adventure on, Phat:highfive:

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I rather like the look and shape of the Hunting bow. Being short makes it seem reasonable for mounted combat.  The sort of thing Greeks favoured when galloping about on Centaurs Lol.  Of course it proves woefully weak very early on.

You know what….I am tiring of this Ranger attire (The rough leather and mail modded one).   It does look realistic…fair enough, but the trousers are ‘boiler suit’ and those clumpy boots ugh! I can’t bear the ‘welder look’ gloves either.   I need some elegance in my life, beauty, refinement and sexual allure…hmmm!   So, I am contemplating my white Elven Wedding Dress with white heels, white fishnets and of course Nico’s white Dragonbone bow with matching quiver.  Shame there are no elegant white bracers to match since that lowers bow output (lack of enchant slots)…Unless of course you know of some:wub:

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5 hours ago, Adella said:

I rather like the look and shape of the Hunting bow. Being short makes it seem reasonable for mounted combat.  The sort of thing Greeks favoured when galloping about on Centaurs Lol.  Of course it proves woefully weak very early on.

You know what….I am tiring of this Ranger attire (The rough leather and mail modded one).   It does look realistic…fair enough, but the trousers are ‘boiler suit’ and those clumpy boots ugh! I can’t bear the ‘welder look’ gloves either.   I need some elegance in my life, beauty, refinement and sexual allure…hmmm!   So, I am contemplating my white Elven Wedding Dress with white heels, white fishnets and of course Nico’s white Dragonbone bow with matching quiver.  Shame there are no elegant white bracers to match since that lowers bow output (lack of enchant slots)…Unless of course you know of some:wub:

I am using the IWBW Steel replacer that Nico made me for my birthday.  So, my hunting bow is from that set, 2nd from the left below... 

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L-R Imperial, IWBWS steel/hunting, Aragorn's Dagger, Tauriel/Elvish and Glass

If you are running the Companions anyway, I highly recommend the Nord Hero Bow and quiver.  It's lovely :) 

105234-1603670776-1105370137.png105695-1606782545-500188531.png105695-1606782550-1572216901.png

I'm torn between the Nord Hero/Arctic Wolf and Stalhrim when it comes to white.  But, the Dragonbone has exceptional detail in the carvings as well.  There are no slouches in this bunch.  They all shine in their own glory. :) 

White outfits...  I have a few...  Below are two of my favorites...  L-R we have Serana in UNP wearing a UNPB minidress that also comes in white, Elisif, center in Atanis and Elisif's body double in Charles Rene on the right.  The Charles Rene is available on Xbox in 7BB which, if memory serves is just my beloved Adella's size.  7BB fits most UNP based bodies anyway.  10764-1602430182-196887237.jpeg

Since you like the Hunting bow you should like the custom Bow of the Hunter, the custom variant with ebony damage.  The unique Bow of the Hunt also uses that same model.  If you like the IWBW Steel replacer yet want to keep Nico's hunting bow from Bowgasm, just make sure to load Bowgasm last after the Steel replacer.  Allowing Bowgasm to overwrite Steel keeps the Bowgasm hunting bow.  Loading steel after Bowgasm gives you the black Mirkwood based model in my weapon rack image near the top above.

If nothing else, the Charles Rene gives you lovely gold bracers and heel that look amazing with white! :)

Charles Rene in 7BB for Xbox:  https://bethesda.net/en/mods/skyrim/mod-detail/4140792  Also available in UNP:  https://bethesda.net/en/mods/skyrim/mod-detail/4139923  (Right around 40 MB for the set)

That said... You know I love that lovely white gown, always have, always will. :) 

If you ever stoop to joining we humble PC peons... I can certainly roll out the red carpet recommendations for you darling :)  

On Xbox, in white, you also have Ashara Princes of the Woods but it's 200 MB and 300 pieces as well as the wrong body.  My friend Bryan did the best port of that mod for PC in a multitude of UNP based bodies, including 7BB.  Again, Xbox ties our hands.  Try the Charles Rene in 7BB.  I think you'll like it, even if you just use the gauntlets and shoes.

Adventure on my precious angel, Kisses, Phat:wub:

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