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Bug: Carlotta kills the bard


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I have a rather heavy mod install.  As a result this may simply be a result of mods criss-crossing each other.  However, aside from the USKP, I have nothing that I could even suspect as a cause.  

Looking for two things:  

  1. pointers to possible causes.  
  2. confirmation and/or denial of the bug in a USKP only setup.

 

The bug:  Enter Bannered Mare in the evening hours. Talk to Carlotta and receive the quest to speak with the bard about harassing her.  Immediately talk to the bard.  I choose the persuade option, but my persuade check fails. I then choose to brawl.  Fight starts out normal.  After a few hits in, Carlotta gets up and draws her dagger.  She then proceeds to attack the bard.  If I keep hands up in brawl mode, she will kill him.  If I lower my hands, everyone stops fighting and goes back to normal routine.

 

Difference between the two outcomes is that the first proceeds with the quest, the second requires me to try something else to convince the bard to leave her alone.

 

I did perform a recent update of installed mods not that long ago. Of which, the USKP was included.  Prior to these updates, the brawl seemed to work just fine. 

 

load order list

Skyrim.esm

Update.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp
Dawnguard.esm
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp
HearthFires.esm
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp
Falskaar.esm
FM - HaafingarHall.esm
MFVM.esm
SGHairPackBase.esm
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp
Cutting Room Floor.esp
360WalkandRunPlus-RunBackwardSpeedAdjust.esp
SSoB.esp
SkyUI.esp
CandleLightRecolor.esp
Isharas_CustomPlayerBody.esp
DG and DB Axe Perks merged.esp
InventoryManagementSystem.esp
A Mage's Night Out.esp
Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
LFGSmoothLeveling.esp
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
ELFX - Dragonborn.esp
SGHairPackAIO.esp
numericalSmithingUpgrades.esp
FISS.esp
AMatterOfTime.esp
Mining For Mages Redux.esp
Extended UI.esp
BS-TheHag_Overlays.esp
SkyCompleteFalskaar.esp
RaceMenuPluginXPMSE.esp
FloraRespawnFix.esp
ELFX - Exteriors.esp
ELFX - Dawnguard.esp
zzArmormashups.esp
Thieves Guild Requirements.esp
KS Hairdo's.esp
Isharas_PresetAndMannequin_DLC.esp
FreckleMania.esp
FollowerAsCompanion.esp
Isharas_AestheticBoltQuiver.esp
JiubQuestMarkers.esp
KJ Tattoos 2K.esp
Falskaar Wildlife.esp
GQJ_DG_vampireamuletfix.esp
Purewaters.esp
MainMenuCustomized.esp
Random Mining MCM.esp
Customizable Camera.esp
SimpleNeeds.esp
Invisibility Glitch Fix.esp
SkyCompleteLegendary.esp
AHZmoreHUD.esp
3DNPC.esp
ELFXEnhancer.esp
Helgen Reborn.esp
Pureweather.esp
MFVM_Hearthfire_Patch.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp
3DNPC_FollowerDefaultOutfit.esp
The Huntsman.esp
GoldenVendors.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
Traps Are Dangerous.esp
RaceMenu.esp
TreaclemanFalskaarPatch.esp
Bring Out Your Dead.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
Followers of Gol - The Five Housecarls.esp
Thunderchild - Epic Shout Package.esp
Acquisitive Soul Gems.esp
SkyFalls DB + FS Small Waterfalls.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills Falskaar.esp
WM Trap Fixes.esp
When Vampires Attack.esp
Wintermyst - Enchantments of Skyrim.esp
Lore Weapon Expansion.esp
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
Point The Way.esp
SMIM-Merged-All.esp
Ars Metallica - Legendary Edition.esp
Faction Crossbows.esp
ABQ_FC_Patch.esp
FM - HHall Exterior.esp
3DNPC Alternative Locations.esp
FM - UNP Merchants.esp
MB_Cleric_v2.esp
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
DragonPriestMaskQuestMarkers.esp
Gildergreen Regrown.esp
Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp
ASAP.esp
dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp
iActivate.esp
towConversation.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp

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It most probably is caused by some mod interfering with another. I had a similar problem few days ago - anytime I started a brawl the person tried to punch me about two times then took their weapon and killed me. I don't play with so many mods and I was sure that few weeks ago I could brawl without any trouble so I knew it was caused by one of the mods I tried lately. By disabling them one after another I found out it was caused by "Dragon Combat Overhaul". However with your list of mods, figuring out which one does that might be a real pain in the ass :/.

 

If you're not strictly after fixing the bug you might try to wait for a daytime when Carlotta stands by her stall and brawl the bard inside the inn...

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Yes. The thing is, some mods make use of hidden cloak effects in an effort to try and work around scripting issues they think are a problem. A lot of those invisible cloak spells they use for stuff is perceived as hostile. So brawls get screwed up because of it.

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Difference between the two outcomes is that the first proceeds with the quest, the second requires me to try something else to convince the bard to leave her alone.

 

I did perform a recent update of installed mods not that long ago. Of which, the USKP was included.  Prior to these updates, the brawl seemed to work just fine. 

Have you tried to talk to the bard when Carlotta is selling vegetables?  I always do that and so far no brawl has occured.

 

I suggest that you load your current loadorder into TES5Edit then search for Carlotta respective the bard and see if the USKP fixes has been overwritten by any mod(s) from your loadorder.

 

If you find something that's similar to my issue I had with Aerin then report your findings to the author and ask if it can be fixed.

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I did check in TES5Edit, but the way everything interacts with each other, I have trouble finding all records that touch on the particular NPCs.

 

At any rate, I repeated the scenario after removing enchanted gear on the outside chance that some mod added effect were responsible.  Only difference was that my follower (Lydia) caught up to Mikael and began landing blows too.  Revert & reload and tried brawling with Uthgerd (sp?) and here too my follower and others began attacking her.

 

Its obviously not NPC specific.  Probably a funky variant of the "brawl bug" as Arthmoor stated.  I'm looking into that possibility to see if there were some overlooked settings in the mod that I disabled.

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That sounds like classic "brawl bug" stuff. If one of your other mods is using a funky cloak spell that's probably what's causing it.

Its obviously not NPC specific.  Probably a funky variant of the "brawl bug" as Arthmoor stated.  I'm looking into that possibility to see if there were some overlooked settings in the mod that I disabled.

It could also be by design of how NPC would do when another NPC become a criminal.  So if a NPC is detected by the game engine as a criminal any NPC that's close enough begin to fight with their bare hands.

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IIRC, that bard is the one that she has problems with.  Maybe she got so fed up with his crap that when she saw him getting punchy with someone else telling him to cut it out, she flips her lid?  Yeah, that's the ticket.  RP it that way. :teehee:

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IIRC, that bard is the one that she has problems with.  Maybe she got so fed up with his crap that when she saw him getting punchy with someone else telling him to cut it out, she flips her lid?  Yeah, that's the ticket.  RP it that way. :teehee:

:rofl:  Yes, that has to be it.  :troll:

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yeah... sure...   then you go back to her and she pays you for telling him off, even tho she up and killed him.   doesn't quite RP very well.    :P

 

Anyway, I opted to play without said mod.  Informed the author of my troubles with it.  They said they would look into it when they had the chance.

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