Is the previous version available somewhere?

[Arthmoor]

2 hours ago, smr1957 said:

And, when even the SKSE team can't get it straight, what hope is there for the ordinary average gamer?

I have a not so nice opinion on that that I'll leave out of the public space....

[smr1957]

38 minutes ago, Arthmoor said:

I have a not so nice opinion on that that I'll leave out of the public space....

LOL!  I have long taken an oath of silence myself on what I think and speak of in public (though many may know from private conversations)!

[Rev Elevenclaw]

For the record, I read a lot regarding Skyrim trends. That's how I found this topic in the first place.

I think my point isn't clear... I'm a member of another site we all know and love or hate. Doesn't matter. What matters is the hundreds of people that had their SSE broken by the AE update. It's not what I think that matters here. It's the fact of incompatibility between SE and AE regarding mods. So these hundreds of people are directed to a solution; a roll back to before AE. Now moving on to the USSEP, updated to match AE, and distributed to everyone as the only version available. Is anyone willing to at least acknowledge the issue with this. I don't feel it is too much to ask for a SSE compatible patch to be left available, for those who wish to remain at SSE. 

On a personal note, I have been warned for my opinion on this matter. I speak my thoughts here because we modders/mod users shape the community. Not everyone agrees on how it should be. But I wouldn't be doing my part if I didn't express my concern over this matter.

With that off my chest, I digress, and shall not speak of it further.

[Arthmoor]

The problem here is that your analysis is incorrect and that "other" place you're referring to has been spreading disinformation knowingly. There is no compatibility issue. SE updated to 1.6, that's it. The mods out there in the world didn't just quit working. Unless they had specific conflicts with the 4 added DLCs that came with the most recent SE update, there is no reason they need to be updated. IN fact, I'd say that a good 99% of old mods out there will be fine with not being updated.

The USSEP falls into the 1% that can't be casually dismissed when it comes to updates. We need to keep it in sync with the officially supported version of the game as sold on Steam, and right now that's Skyrim Special Edition version 1.6.323. I'm not sure why this continued to need explaining, but apparently it does. We have ALWAYS kept the USSEP in sync with the regular game updates. People just don't remember this (willingly or otherwise) because the last time this happened was in 2019 at the last game update before Covid-19 screwed up the world.

Nothing at all about this update is any different than past updated. Each time Bethesda updates the game, 3rd party SKSE extensions need to be updated, and it generally takes 2-4 weeks for that to happen for the ones still being maintained. For the ones that aren't, they don't get updated and people find new ones to fill the voids left behind. This has been the case for the 5 years SE has existed, and was the case with LE until they stopped updating it. The compiler update is literally a non-issue because EVERYONE maintaining the kind of work it would have affected would have needed to update their mods anyway.

So for the last time. SE updated. New base game content went out to everyone. AE is an optional paid DLC that requires the base game update and has nothing to do with the USSEP or anyone else's mods unless they happen to have direct conflicts with them. Please stop fostering the spread of bad information.

[m69EYr4fSq6Xy2w]

Well I suppose this thread answers the question of whether or not I can find a pre-AE version of open cities easily or not. I appreciate everything you've done for the modding community @Arthmoor, I really do. You're an incredible asset to the community at large and have participated in several amazing projects, but I simply can't wrap my head around your stance here.

This entire split from Nexus just feels petty and childish in a "I'm taking my toys and going home" sort of way, but that's born entirely from my inability to see how it harms you for people to want access to older versions of your mods

[Arthmoor]

7 hours ago, Ruko said:

I simply can't wrap my head around your stance here.

Then may I suggest unwrapping it from the stance reddit has planted in everyone's brains first. When you do that, it'll be more clear to you why they're in the wrong on this.

[XRAT]

Have to say Arthmoor you have the patience of a saint and so do some of the other respondents, by now I would probably have got banned for "opening my mouth and putting my foot in it" I am completely non technical and even I can see the logic employed.

[smr1957]

36 minutes ago, XRAT said:

Have to say Arthmoor you have the patience of a saint and so do some of the other respondents, by now I would probably have got banned for "opening my mouth and putting my foot in it" I am completely non technical and even I can see the logic employed.

A lot of us also have very thick calluses on our foreheads from all the banging of our heads on the wall that we do - LOL!

[Sigurð Stormhand]

On 12/9/2021 at 8:57 PM, Rev Elevenclaw said:

For the record, I read a lot regarding Skyrim trends. That's how I found this topic in the first place.

I think my point isn't clear... I'm a member of another site we all know and love or hate. Doesn't matter. What matters is the hundreds of people that had their SSE broken by the AE update. It's not what I think that matters here. It's the fact of incompatibility between SE and AE regarding mods. So these hundreds of people are directed to a solution; a roll back to before AE. Now moving on to the USSEP, updated to match AE, and distributed to everyone as the only version available. Is anyone willing to at least acknowledge the issue with this. I don't feel it is too much to ask for a SSE compatible patch to be left available, for those who wish to remain at SSE. 

On a personal note, I have been warned for my opinion on this matter. I speak my thoughts here because we modders/mod users shape the community. Not everyone agrees on how it should be. But I wouldn't be doing my part if I didn't express my concern over this matter.

With that off my chest, I digress, and shall not speak of it further.

As you have publicly referenced the warning issued I will respond to it. You were warned, quite specifically, for equating the policies of the patch team with the regime of Nazi Germany, though you were less polite. I will note that it is generally considered bad form to publicly complain about a warning issued by site moderators on any site. That being said, I appreciate that the site Admins and Moderators here are also core members of the patch team you are taking issue with, so perhaps you feel that is not an option.

You are entitled to express your opinion and you have been given free reign to do so, within the site rules.

In regards to your point - we've already covered the fact that the UPP will only ever provide a patch for the most recent, currently supported, version of the game. Beyond that, yes, there is an issue, Skyrim has been updated, the USSEP has been updated, SKSE has been updated, irrc Address Library has been updated. So where's the problem? It's not in the base game or the "core" mods, it's in the modes that haven't been updated. By this point, if mods haven't been updated their authors are, at best, on hiatus. What you're asking for is for the UPP to maintain compatibility with an obsolete version of the game that is no longer publicly available to maintain compatibility with obsolete mods.

The point is, we simply aren't going to support an obsolete game version. Anyone who wants to avoid updating should to 1.6x should already have a backup of all their mods if they want to go that route, they had enough warning. Any new players will start on 1.6x and we don't want to encourage them "downgrading" to an unsupported version. In the medium term what we want is to get everyone off SSE 1.5x and on to 1.6x. If we don't achieve that then the community will fracture with people building for one or other version of the same game. This is, to say the least, a poor outcome and one we want to avoid. In my opinion, major mods should all be shifting to 1.6x as quickly as possible and leaving 1.5x behind, and tools like halgari's "downgrader" are simply retarding the transition and stretching out the "pain period".

[Sigurð Stormhand]

On 12/10/2021 at 11:27 AM, m69EYr4fSq6Xy2w said:

Well I suppose this thread answers the question of whether or not I can find a pre-AE version of open cities easily or not. I appreciate everything you've done for the modding community @Arthmoor, I really do. You're an incredible asset to the community at large and have participated in several amazing projects, but I simply can't wrap my head around your stance here.

This entire split from Nexus just feels petty and childish in a "I'm taking my toys and going home" sort of way, but that's born entirely from my inability to see how it harms you for people to want access to older versions of your mods

Two things here.

Regards your first point see my last reply to this thread. We're trying to push people on SSE 1.6x because in the medium term we think that's best for the community.

Regards your second point, I've seen real "I'm taking my toys and going home" behaviour. Last year, the X-wing Alliance Upgrade Project was almost crippled when one long-standing team member decided to leave and take the entire archive with them. A lot of us simply don't want to associate with Nexus because of the way they have monetised modders work "under the table" using less than civil methods. That's less about the policy changes, more the way they were rammed through without consultation.

[deaths_soul]

I'd like to say something if I may.

I haven't really messed with Skyrim since 2012 but it is my understanding that there exists no way to query plugin versions (not the version that works with the executable but the user defined versions) from either other plugins or scripts. Correct me if I'm wrong. In this case, it'd be impossible to check the game to make sure the proper version of the plugin is being used to check for conflicts or incompatibilities, something that can be done with officially distributed executable patches. In this scenario, it'd become rather difficult to ensure that other files are depending upon the correct version resulting in the possibility of conflicts arising unintentionally.

Edited December 12, 2021 by deaths_soul

[Sigurð Stormhand]

We've had a couple of complaints about the tone of some of the responses in this thread (from both sides). I've snipped out a couple of posts that were strictly off topic.

This is obviously a contentious topic with strongly held views on both sides. I'll remind everyone to "play the ball not the man" and try to keep it civil so that we can keep having these sorts of discussions. Even if we can't come to agreement we can hopefully at least come to better mutual understanding.

[Arthmoor]

16 hours ago, deaths_soul said:

it is my understanding that there exists no way to query plugin versions (not the version that works with the executable but the user defined versions) from either other plugins or scripts

If a mod author adds a version number to an in-plugin form somewhere, yes, you could do that. The downside is that every mod author concerned with this would have their own form and there's no universal way to know which one it is in each person's mod.

You could use an integer property in a Papyrus script, but again, the same issues come up because everyone would need their own script for this. Plus that property could not be updated without a second script to change it in the first.

So we've basically got no good method for figuring out what version of a mod someone has if the mod author is not providing that information anywhere.

[deaths_soul]

I know in managing code, I've had to do version checking in the code itself to match various compiler capabilities. For instance, older versions of VS shipped with a broken regex library so I accounted for that in a wrapper.

If there was a way to check the version string of the official plugins and to implement conditional inclusions (I know it's not possible the way the plugin structure is setup currently), would it be acceptable to set it up so that the fixes (both old and new) are included in version checking if-statements? It's really a what-if question but it's intellectual curiosity on my part.

Edited December 15, 2021 by deaths_soul

[Sigurð Stormhand]

This topic has run it's course. 

Time for it to rest.

To be honest, probably needed to be sent to bed a while back.