Translation System

[Pino]

This question is for both, Skyrim SE and Fallout 4.

You always wrote something about but it never came...

Quote

As the state of translation tools progresses, it may become possible in the near future to issue the ESP file in localized format with external string files that can be translated into other languages more easily, thus allowing for the possibility that the mod could be distributed in one location with multiple translation files available.

I know there Bethesda is to stupid to release the official tools for the translation string thing but some community tools already support it (I tested it with SSEEdit and it worked for your esp). So why you dont use them?

Why this is better for all:

Actually you edit Text lines direct in the esp instead in the string file of your language
= All languages are overwritten and the Text field no more has an/the "StringID".

For the few new Text entries you can simple generate a StringID with string files in your bsa archive
= Translators can simple translate the string files. They can send them to you or upload an empty esp and a bsa archive with other translated string files. (like unofficial skyrim special edition patch_german.STRINGS for german).

You and all the translators only need one tool for Text fields: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/134

 

Is it possible that you remove text entries from your esp and put them in the original english strings and generate a string file of new text entries you added in your patch? Maybe only as a beta version first 🥺🥺🥺
Translators only need to use the xTranslator and 5 min work to us the new system after this. (possible with compare and Custom dictionary function)

[Arthmoor]

The reason it never came about is because the system has never changed. Translations of this nature are still grossly unreliable and missing languages will still crash the game so it's not something we're willing to entertain.

I see no reason to put any kind of trust in automated tools to do proper translations either because they can't possibly know all of the nuances involved in language. Literal translation of text is a bad way to go.

Plus it's not generally easy to find people consistently willing to stick with doing translations over the long haul. This isn't a project that has one or two major releases and then sits around for years. We update it so regularly that a lot of people just don't have the time or desire to keep up with it.

The result of all of this would be outdated translation files, which is as bad or worse than simply doing nothing. So, until Bethesda themselves finds a better way to do this stuff, we have chosen to do nothing.

[Nico coiN]

I 100% agree with Arthmoor. Releasing an esp + english string files would mean instant CTD for all other languages that would miss them. However, the actual form will (at least) always work for everyone...

Making string files for all other languages would be an extremely time consuming job for a small team and would require a correct foreign language knowledge for second reading, because all translation tools are quite handy but not 100% reliable. I can assure you it doesn't consist of just a few mouse clicks achieved within a few seconds...

I have to point out that I am using xTranslator and that I am myself still handling the french USLEEP/USSEP translation since day 1 (but I'm an exception) on both an external french community website and nexus. All other languages had many translators doing the job, very irregularly, and sometimes only once. Having a reliable team of translators would be the solution, but delaying a patch release if some translators are late or missing (we are all working on this on our spare time) is just unacceptable. And you have no idea of the shitstorm that I have to endure if my translation is a bit late (Hey mate, Arthmoor released a new USSEP and we still don't have it in french. MOVE YOUR ASS, OR MAKE ROOM FOR SOMEONE ELSE!!!). I doubt Arthmoor would like to see this kind of behaviour here... So, that's just not feasible.

But I also agree with you on the fact that unofficial translation tools make it a lot easier for anyone willing to achieve it seriously and making a second reading! That's why all other translations will still have to rely on the good will from people outside of  the UPP team.

Here are my answers in the actual situation. They may be quite different if Bethesda makes the official language support available to modders and makes it less retrictrive.

[Pino]

I never said that the patch team have to translate it. Only to make text edits in the main Skyrim_English.strings so all the edits are only for the english version of skyrim.

The only strings that are necessary to tranlate are the few NEW strings from the patch esp (unofficial skyrim special edition patch_english.STRINGS). To make the patch working even if you don't have an translation you can simple create all the strings with the English placeholder.

After that you don't even necessary need an translation because only the few new text entries from the esp are English.

 

Actually we need to edit the patch esp with some tools and maybe we broke some things beside. Also it is only possible to deliver the whole package as an translation and not only a small fix FOR the patch. This is why many translations are not on Bethesda.net.

(The most problems: We don't know how to uploade the ini file to Bethesda)

 

[Nico coiN]

Ah, I see the point. That's exactly what I'm doing from the very beginning to fix all typos in the SSE french version of the game. I'm forced to stick with this now, but that was partially an error, and I'll explain why.

There are pros: Fixing typos directly in string files avoids overloading the esp with numerous records, avoiding possible conflicts with other mods. It also makes dictionnaries for translation tools much lighter. When you have no Unofficial Patch translation available in your language, your game is then lightly 'polluted' with english text, I agree.

But there are cons: Each new game update (I'd rather say each time Beth' adds stubs for Creation Club content, as SSE and FO4 are stable since long. Only the main exe is really upgraded with possible new code)... So, each new game update adds new entries in the string files sets. Strings from the unofficial patch would miss them and may lead to various unknown and unpredictable issues because of this. The unofficial patch would then be broken, and would require to update very quickly just in order to re-insert all the previously fixed typos in the new game strings. That's a not-so-long, but heavy and perilous task that I'm forced to achieve at each update with the automated tool included in xTranslator. I have to confess that I'm not 100% confident in doing this: I fear losing some fixed typos in the process, or completely messing string files...

Being forced to push an update just for this reason is a bit time-consuming, uncomfortable, uncertain, and would ideally require an additional bit of beta testing/check, which we just can't afford. And many people claiming we ruined their game is the last thing we all want, right? The game strings files should be considered pristine, cannon and untouchable for this whole and only reason, in the same way as Skyrim.esm or Fallout4.esm. Modifying these 2 files would be highly NOT RECOMMENDED in any way.

 

Once again, my answers may vary a lot if Beth' ever releases official, convenient, secure and reliable tools to do this.

[Arthmoor]

6 hours ago, Nico coiN said:

Once again, my answers may vary a lot if Beth' ever releases official, convenient, secure and reliable tools to do this.

And therein lies the problem. For Skyrim and Fallout 4, no such thing is ever going to happen. Maybe for Starfield or TES VI, but not before.

I also agree that we cannot and should not ever touch the default language files. That way lies madness. Anything that needs editing would have to go in our own string files, which as we've stated many times before, isn't practical because so few people who do this kind of thing stick with it over time.

[Pino]

Sorry for the late reply.

I looked into it and now I understand what Arthmoor means. Looks like it not possible that the patch use the strings from the original esm.
I trough it is possible to let all the Text fields untouched if you edit some data... but then a empty texts are shown in-game.

On 9/6/2020 at 7:36 PM, Arthmoor said:

I also agree that we cannot and should not ever touch the default language files.

In german we have an grammar patch that simple replaced the strings via bsa. If you only edit the string entries this is the safest way.
 

Ok but now the only problem translators have: Is your Xbox/PS esp identical? (in addition to texture compression)