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At which point is it a bug fix patch or is it a content change patch ?

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Hi again,

The unofficial patch is amazing, i'm a vanilla player and i only playing the original content + the patch.

But i want to discuss about this:

 

ORIGINAL GAME:

UqvgbL3.png

 

 

PATCHED GAME:

jSugaAy.png

 

 

 

There's probably a lot of others examples. Is it necessary ?

 

 

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First off, I feel the need to make something clear before addressing your question. We're not going to be discussing removing valid bug fixes, no matter how small or inconsequential they may seem. Please read the section in the article (below) about what constitutes a bug.

In this case, it looks like the first aid box was floating very slightly above the surface. Therefore, it qualifies as a bug. Now, if you want to discuss the way it was fixed - as in maybe it could have just been lowered a bit instead of rotated and positioned like it is in the second screenshot, then we may consider making a revision if a ticket were to be filed in the bug tracker. Please also see the section in the linked article (above) about how to report a bug. It appears to me that whoever did that fix may have had trouble re-positioning the box so that it wouldn't then clip into the concrete or the side of the water tower.

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I understand the meticulousness, this need to have "everything perfect", and i guess that, with this water tower, it's not possible to have objects in perfect visible contact, because a part of the tower, a tiny layer, is probably transparent, like many others objects.

So yes maybe it's floating 1 pixel in the air. This was designed by the game creators, they tested it probably a lot since this is the starting area of the game. They knew it and they did not changed it. And personally i was never traumatized because the aid box was floating 1 pixel in the air.

But let me tell you that when starting the game in survival these vanilla bottles are useful; and now they are gone. The aid box perfectly aligned is also troubling.

This "detail" is going in the same way of what i posted previously about the removed "ces messieurs" audio from curie battle sentence. Fixes pushed too far are probably bad fixes. When something is working decently, trying to upgrade further is a risk, when trying to make things perfect you may end up in losing the essential.

Maybe your guys should take some distance and watch the whole picture: is the game stays untouched or not ? Is it really necessary ? Maybe there's some limitations to accept.

Above everything you have to take this topic positively. I'm here to help.  It's friendly, i'm convinced this topic was necessary, and i'm glad you read it. Can't wait for beta release btw i'm active in translated version delivery.

 

I will do a case right now... For the bottles :lol:

/e: registered on  AFK Mods bug tracker but there's no “Open New Issue” option...

 

 

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Quote

t's not possible to have objects in perfect visible contact, because a part of the tower, a tiny layer, is probably transparent,

3D game objects generally consist of two meshes, one for the visuals (i.e. what you see) and an invisible one for the physics (the so-called collision mesh). The mesh for the visuals has pretty high detail.. The collision mesh however has low detail because the performance that needs to be invested in collision detection increases with the number of faces. A good collision mesh preserves the shape of the visuals mesh as accurately as possible despite having a much lower face count. To accomplish this, tiny wrinkles that may exist in the visuals mesh get flattened out in the collision mesh. Also, accuracy may get reduced on purpose in places that are out of reach to colliding objects. The water tower, for example, does actually not need any elaborate collision at the top because that's out of reach to the player, and there are no high-flying actors around. If collision is noticeably inaccurate (the "thin transparent layer" phenomenon you were referring to) in places that can be directly interacted with, this is plain simply a mesh error and by no means a limitation of contemporary computer games. In fact, you can realize "perfect contact" quite easily; that only depends on the skills of the 3D artist.

Now if you look at the tower mesh in the CK and toggle the collision geometry (by pressing F4 while the render window is active, note that you will have to wait a few seconds for the collsion meshes to be displayed), you'll see that the collision at the tower's base is pretty accurate, and also that the first aid box is the object with the bad collision (note the completely unnecessary details on the edges). That box was also not floating but clipping into the tower base instead, in addition to being placed in a position that blatantly derides real-world physics. That's a crystal clear placed reference issue (see screenshot).

AuSecours.jpg

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Hi, thanks for answering so fast.

So the mesh is fine ? Then i don't understand why these purified water bottles were removed.

Here's what i would have done (sorry this was the first time i had to use this "CK")

 

Bottles:

pVU6oBH.png

=======>

H6P16Tg.png

 

And aid box:

Fp3qC17.png

========>

UHwxSvy.png

 

Maybe this sounds stupid for you but I'm a perfectionist from the others side: It should match as much as possible the original content.

I hope my point is "crystal clear" [aquamarine] for you too and bring you something new.

I'm enjoying this patch for scripts/quests fixes, or stuck/inaccessible/unselectable objects. My preferred fix being random encounters ofc !

 

Have a nice day,

 

And ps: registered on  AFK Mods bug tracker but there's no “Open New Issue” option... :lol:

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You need to select a project from the drop list in order to open a new issue. That said, those bottles being missing is highly unlikely to be due to us having done anything to them. The one that was clipping would have been righted to prevent that but that's it. The others look fine and we would have had no reason to touch them.

As far as Bethesda testing stuff and this being a deliberate choice on their behalf, not likely. QA never inspects object placement at this level. It's entirely likely that QA never even saw any of this while testing and the only person who did was the person who initially put in the clutter objects.

You should also be aware that clipping objects can result in them being launched into the air and then end up where they don't belong, or they could get launched below the landscape and be lost forever. No matter how you slice it that's definitely a bug worthy of being fixed and sometimes that mean minor rotation of the object into a new position in order to get it to fit right.

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8 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

You need to select a project from the drop list in order to open a new issue. That said, those bottles being missing is highly unlikely to be due to us having done anything to them. The one that was clipping would have been righted to prevent that but that's it. The others look fine and we would have had no reason to touch them.

As far as Bethesda testing stuff and this being a deliberate choice on their behalf, not likely. QA never inspects object placement at this level. It's entirely likely that QA never even saw any of this while testing and the only person who did was the person who initially put in the clutter objects.

You should also be aware that clipping objects can result in them being launched into the air and then end up where they don't belong, or they could get launched below the landscape and be lost forever. No matter how you slice it that's definitely a bug worthy of being fixed and sometimes that mean minor rotation of the object into a new position in order to get it to fit right.

 

- I can select any project, and i did, there's nothing appearing related to create new case, no button, no choice, nothing related to " Select “Open New Issue” "

https://i.imgur.com/MAIfg0M.jpg

- These bottles are gone: i am ONLY using the unofficial patch, ever. I started 2 new games, one with NO mod, the other one with the beta ONLY.

This is from a beta i downloaded 48 hours ago. GL

 

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