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Arthmoor and halgari in conversation, moderated by Sigurd


Sigurð Stormhand

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Last night, in an effort to clear the air and generate some good will Arthmoor and halgari sat down and had a conversation about some of the issues around Mod-Packs/Mod-Lists. The conversation took place in a private channel on my Discord and I moderated. All parties agreed screen-caps of the conversation would be made publicly available - so here you go:

 

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Cool.  There are two images that were pasted into the thread and are illegible.  If you still have the discussion, could you please open them and capture them so we might see their contents. 

 

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1 hour ago, The Black Swan said:

Cool.  There are two images that were pasted into the thread and are illegible.  If you still have the discussion, could you please open them and capture them so we might see their contents. 

 

Sorry, I don't understand - that's the entire convo as far as I can see.

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I think he means the one white image Halgari posted and the .mp4 video he posted later on. Those are indeed illegible in the screen dumps.

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I read everything and I think Sigurd is right, automatic mod installation tools is the future and are here to stay until something else replaces it someday in the future.

However, I have my doubts the Wabbajack mod installation tool will work, because there is one thing halgari seem to miss and what I am talking about is what policy external hosting sites has.

For example, Mediafire is a well known and reliable hosting site and have served a lot modders for a long time, but there are other hosting sites e.g MEGA, ModDB, GameFront (resurrected here) just to mention a few and I know there are a lot of other hosting sites out there.  But most of them are not known in the TES modding community, not that I am aware of.

Every external hosting site has a policy in which can be changed anytime and sometimes without a warning or without question asked.

As I recall it that is what happen on the old GameFront site back in 2012/2013 I think it was when they suddenly changed their policy for every hosted file to actually delete all files that haven't been downloaded in a period of 90 days without a warning in advance.

How I know this has to do with some mods a TW modder (now retired) hosted on GameFront (old site) and when I wanted to downloaded a mod or mod tool all I got was a message saying "The file is missing..." or simliar and soon a lot people on TWC discover a lot of missing mods on GameFront over 1 year before GameFront was shut down in early 2014 I think.

Sorry for a being a little long winded, but I felt that I needed to explain why I doubt the Wabbajack mod installation tool will work.

Anyway, I don't want to be pessimistic without suggesting something else.

What I suggest is to let a community site, like AFK Mods (I am not saying AFK Mods should take care of the Wabbajack tool), handle the Wabbajack tool and doing that might be beneficial for a lot of people.

No drastic changes without knowning what have changed will happen, unless the host have stop hosting a site.

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11 hours ago, Leonardo said:

I read everything and I think Sigurd is right, automatic mod installation tools is the future and are here to stay until something else replaces it someday in the future.

However, I have my doubts the Wabbajack mod installation tool will work, because there is one thing halgari seem to miss and what I am talking about is what policy external hosting sites has.

For example, Mediafire is a well known and reliable hosting site and have served a lot modders for a long time, but there are other hosting sites e.g MEGA, ModDB, GameFront (resurrected here) just to mention a few and I know there are a lot of other hosting sites out there.  But most of them are not known in the TES modding community, not that I am aware of.

Every external hosting site has a policy in which can be changed anytime and sometimes without a warning or without question asked.

As I recall it that is what happen on the old GameFront site back in 2012/2013 I think it was when they suddenly changed their policy for every hosted file to actually delete all files that haven't been downloaded in a period of 90 days without a warning in advance.

How I know this has to do with some mods a TW modder (now retired) hosted on GameFront (old site) and when I wanted to downloaded a mod or mod tool all I got was a message saying "The file is missing..." or simliar and soon a lot people on TWC discover a lot of missing mods on GameFront over 1 year before GameFront was shut down in early 2014 I think.

Sorry for a being a little long winded, but I felt that I needed to explain why I doubt the Wabbajack mod installation tool will work.

Anyway, I don't want to be pessimistic without suggesting something else.

What I suggest is to let a community site, like AFK Mods (I am not saying AFK Mods should take care of the Wabbajack tool), handle the Wabbajack tool and doing that might be beneficial for a lot of people.

No drastic changes without knowning what have changed will happen, unless the host have stop hosting a site.

 

It's true that when a download goes down it does temporarily render the modlist unavailable to use, but thankfully it's an easy process to create an updated version of the installer with a new, correct link. The only problem occurs when a sole copy of the mod is posted on one of these sites that then go down - in which case the mod will have to be removed from the set up and the installer will not attempt to download it. However, this is no different from a mod listed on a modding guide going down in the long term - in both cases, the resource is updated and usually remains usable.

As for a community/site - there is already a very active community around Wabbajack with several thousand users having already joined the Discord, and a Wabbajack staff team set up to handle any complications. While it is halgari's project and he is naturally the point of contact for it, it is open source with a large community that is actively preparing for the changes to the installers that are being made as mentioned in halgari and Arthmoor's conversation. 

 

 

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