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Difference between BOSS and LOOT when sorting a loadorder


Leonardo

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I was curious about what result BOSS and LOOT would have when sorting exactly the same loadorder.  Note, I haven't updated LOOT yet, but I don't think that would change the result too much.

BOSS

 

* 00  Oblivion.esm
* 01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.38]
* 02  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.74]
* 03  Open Cities Resources.esm  [Version 4.1.7]
* 04  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.5.6]
* 05  DLCShiveringIsles.esp
* 06  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.5.9]
* 07  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.38]
* 08  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.38]
* 09  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.38]
* 0A  P1DanywhereSittable.esp
* 0B  P1DseeYouSleep.esp
* 0C  Quest Log Manager.esp  [Version 1.3.2]
* 0D  Dynamic Map.esp  [Version 2.1.1]
* 0E  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.9.3]
* 0F  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.9.3]
* 10  DLCHorseArmor.esp
* 11  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]
* 12  DLCOrrery.esp
* 13  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.7]
* 14  DLCSpellTomes.esp
* ++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
* 15  DLCThievesDen.esp
* 16  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.15]
* 17  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.14]
* 18  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]
* 19  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]
* ++  Cobl Tweaks - SI.esp
* 1A  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp  [Version 3.0RC1]
* 1B  Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp
* 1C  MountainShackR13.esp
* 1D  Cyrodiil Travel Services.esp  [Version 3.1]
* 1E  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
* 1F  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.12]
* 20  DLCFrostcrag.esp
* 21  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.10]
* 22  BrumaGuildReconstructed.esp  [Version 1.0.2]
* 23  Knights.esp
* 24  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1.8]
* **  Oblivion DLC Delayers.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
* 25  ElsweyrAnequina.esp
* ++  ElsweyrAnequina - Races HGEC-Robert.esp  [Version 1.1]
* 26  MagesCross.esp  [Version 1.1]
* 27  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]
* 28  Open Cities New Sheoth.esp  [Version 2.0.2]
* 29  Open Cities Outer Districts.esp  [Version 4.1.7]
* 2A  Open Cities Reborn.esp  [Version 1.1.9]
* 2B  Enchanted Portable Tent.esp  [Version 2.3-Cobl]
* 2C  Enchanted Portable Tent - AN Patch.esp  [Version 2.3]
* ++  Enchanted Portable Tent - SYS Patch.esp  [Version 2.3]
* ++  Enchanted Portable Tent - Alt Hotkey + Interiors Allowed.esp  [Version 2.3]
* ++  ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp
* 2D  Quest Award Leveller.esp
* ++  Quest Award Leveller - Battlehorn Castle.esp
* ++  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp
* 2E  Alternative Beginnings.esp  [Version 1.4.6]
* 2F  Alternative Beginnings - Kvatch Intact.esp  [Version 3.0.2]
* 30  RefScope.esp  [Version 2.1.2]
* 31  EnchantmentRestore.esp
* ++  EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp
* 32  Oblivion XP.esp
* ++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]
* **  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.38]
* 33  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

LOOT

 

* 00  Oblivion.esm
* 01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.38]
* 02  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.74]
* 03  Open Cities Resources.esm  [Version 4.1.7]
* 04  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.5.6]
* 05  DLCShiveringIsles.esp
* 06  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.5.9]
* 07  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
* 08  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.12]
* 09  DLCThievesDen.esp
* 0A  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.15]
* 0B  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.14]
* 0C  DLCHorseArmor.esp
* 0D  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]
* 0E  DLCOrrery.esp
* 0F  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.7]
* 10  DLCSpellTomes.esp
* ++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
* 11  DLCFrostcrag.esp
* 12  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.10]
* 13  Knights.esp
* 14  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1.8]
* 15  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.38]
* 16  Open Cities Reborn.esp  [Version 1.1.9]
* 17  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.38]
* 18  ElsweyrAnequina.esp
* 19  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp  [Version 3.0RC1]
* 1A  Open Cities New Sheoth.esp  [Version 2.0.2]
* 1B  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.38]
* 1C  P1DseeYouSleep.esp
* 1D  Quest Log Manager.esp  [Version 1.3.2]
* 1E  Dynamic Map.esp  [Version 2.1.1]
* 1F  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]
* 20  P1DanywhereSittable.esp
* 21  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]
* ++  Cobl Tweaks - SI.esp
* 22  Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp
* ++  ElsweyrAnequina - Races HGEC-Robert.esp  [Version 1.1]
* 23  Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp  [Version 3.08]
* 24  Open Cities Outer Districts.esp  [Version 4.1.7]
* ++  ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp
* 25  Quest Award Leveller.esp
* ++  Quest Award Leveller - Battlehorn Castle.esp
* ++  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp
* 26  Alternative Beginnings.esp  [Version 1.4.6]
* 27  MagesCross.esp  [Version 1.1]
* 28  MountainShackR13.esp
* **  Oblivion DLC Delayers.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
* 29  Alternative Beginnings - Kvatch Intact.esp  [Version 3.0.2]
* 2A  Cyrodiil Travel Services.esp  [Version 3.1]
* 2B  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.9.3]
* 2C  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.9.3]
* 2D  BrumaGuildReconstructed.esp  [Version 1.0.2]
* 2E  Enchanted Portable Tent.esp  [Version 2.3-Cobl]
* 2F  Enchanted Portable Tent - AN Patch.esp  [Version 2.3]
* ++  Enchanted Portable Tent - SYS Patch.esp  [Version 2.3]
* ++  Enchanted Portable Tent - Alt Hotkey + Interiors Allowed.esp  [Version 2.3]
* 30  RefScope.esp  [Version 2.1.2]
* 31  EnchantmentRestore.esp
* ++  EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp
* 32  Oblivion XP.esp
* ++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]
* **  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.38]
* 33  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

As you can see BOSS place the Alternate Beginnings.esp where is should be at the end of the loadorder, while LOOT place it way to high up in the loadorder.

Furthermore, there is also a difference about sorting the DLC.  In LOOT all activated DLC are sorted directly after the Unofficial Shilvering Isle Patch, but BOSS doesn't do that.

Also, the only mod that both BOSS and LOOT didn't recognize is the Enchanted Portable Tent - Alt Hotkey + Interiors Allowed.esp, which I think is odd due the fact that the bashed patch treated it as a merged mod.

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Who's to say it's wrong though? I think just like Skyrim and FO4 that a lot of assumptions have been made about which way OB mods should be handled and everyone just sticks to it because this is how it's always been done.

Granted, someone would need to spend some time with the Oblivion list to work out the kinks with some of the ordering but LOOT ought to work just fine.

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I dont use any of this anymore, but all the time I used LOOT and helped testing every version of it since it started developing - I could not fault the job it did. It had a few bugs along the way sure, but nothing which diminished my confidence in it to produce a good load order, for Oblivion, Skyrim, Skyrim SE and Fallout 4.

Last time I tried GOG Oblivion and the whole unofficial patch setup, plus quite a few mods, LOOT did do a couple of things slightly different to what I expected (I used to swear by BOSS before LOOT came along) .. But after checking out what records were winning where there were conflicts using xEdit, I could never find anything wrong with how things were ordered.

And thats the other thing about LOOT - Wrinkly invites people to show him with xEdit what they think LOOT is doing wrong, whereupon a special rule or priority could be made for LOOTs masterlist, just like with BOSS .. But hardly anyone comes forth with the goods, and you just get vague conversations like this one drawing no definitive conclusion other than maybe weight of numbers having some bearing on what the op eventually chooses.

If everyone at the start of LOOTs development had given it a good innings, maybe all edge cases and its masterlist would have been well established and refined by now to everyones satisfaction (it may well be already at that stage by now, I dont know for sure because its been a while since I used it).

But even without any refinement, LOOT will still do a better job than BOSS will ever do, because BOSS will remain forever more a dumb tool. LOOT looks at all records within plugins and makes good judgement calls. If you disagree for whatever reason, use Load After, or present a case for setting a special priority in the masterlist.

I get the impression over the last 3-4 years people just have not taken time to study LOOT enough to understand how much better it is, so just stick with the tried way its always been as Arthmoor says.

My Oblivion setup was perfectly stable.

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15 hours ago, Malonn said:

I'd just recommend to use BOSS for Oblivion.  LOOT gets too many mods wrong.

I think that kind of opinion often came from Oblivion players who also played Skyrim and that took place after LOOT had envolved into a stable mod user tool.  Of course this is my observation and others may or may not agree.

11 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

Granted, someone would need to spend some time with the Oblivion list to work out the kinks with some of the ordering but LOOT ought to work just fine.

9 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

I dont use any of this anymore, but all the time I used LOOT and helped testing every version of it since it started developing - I could not fault the job it did. It had a few bugs along the way sure, but nothing which diminished my confidence in it to produce a good load order, for Oblivion, Skyrim, Skyrim SE and Fallout 4.

Last time I tried GOG Oblivion and the whole unofficial patch setup, plus quite a few mods, LOOT did do a couple of things slightly different to what I expected (I used to swear by BOSS before LOOT came along) .. But after checking out what records were winning where there were conflicts using xEdit, I could never find anything wrong with how things were ordered.

And thats the other thing about LOOT - Wrinkly invites people to show him with xEdit what they think LOOT is doing wrong, whereupon a special rule or priority could be made for LOOTs masterlist, just like with BOSS .. But hardly anyone comes forth with the goods, and you just get vague conversations like this one drawing no definitive conclusion other than maybe weight of numbers having some bearing on what the op eventually chooses.

If everyone at the start of LOOTs development had given it a good innings, maybe all edge cases and its masterlist would have been well established and refined by now to everyones satisfaction (it may well be already at that stage by now, I dont know for sure because its been a while since I used it).

But even without any refinement, LOOT will still do a better job than BOSS will ever do, because BOSS will remain forever more a dumb tool. LOOT looks at all records within plugins and makes good judgement calls. If you disagree for whatever reason, use Load After, or present a case for setting a special priority in the masterlist.

I get the impression over the last 3-4 years people just have not taken time to study LOOT enough to understand how much better it is, so just stick with the tried way its always been as Arthmoor says.

My Oblivion setup was perfectly stable. 

I think the time have come for the community to take farewell of both BOSS and mlox.

If that's gonna to happen then people need to assist WrinklyNinja with the masterlist for LOOT, but also compare what result BOSS vs LOOT would have like what I did with the same loadorder.

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I don't really say to trust BOSS over LOOT because others do (though it's boosts confidence, I'll admit) but because when I tried LOOT in the past it made a couple wrong decisions with mods.  Better Cities, specifically.  Better Cities needs to load pretty late or else the ground with be "off" in the IC.  I've found it is easily thrown off.  Loading it late always fixes it.  LOOT never loaded it late enough.  That's the only ammo for my gun.  It could have been fixed since I last used it.  Or I could have made a rule, lord knows I make plenty for BOSS.  But I'm not joining the "BOSS-for-Oblivion" bandwagon.

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Used to be LOOT used priority values but it now uses groups. Stick BC into a group that loads late, or advocate that it should get a special group of its own that does that and it should work out pretty well. Most city altering mods ought to load pretty late anyway or their landscape and path grids get fouled.

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29 minutes ago, Malonn said:

I don't really say to trust BOSS over LOOT

Whether you like it or not, but you actually do that when you're saying "LOOT gets too many mods wrong." and some people will often accept that without knowning the main reason behind it.

In this case it is the masterlist for LOOT, nothing else.

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Fair enough.  I'll try out the current version of LOOT with Oblivion first, then see where my recommendations stand.  If I still recommend BOSS, I'll be more specific as to why.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi hi! I found this thread a few weeks ago while trying to organice my mods for Oblivion, maybe I'm doing wrong to write this post when the last answer was a year ago but I want to upload my BOSS/LOOT load orders (CTD with both) and my own load order (working), maybe this can help with the development of LOOT.
 

BOSSlog.html Loot Load Order.txt loadorder.txt

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