AndalayBay Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Well the poor mods on Beth are saying WTF is going on around here? these days. They closed my first WIP for Gecko when we got a little silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadaun Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 *chuckle* The enemy of my enemy.... of all people who have stood up to side with me on this' date=' Giskard. Honestly not sure what to make of it, but he's even given me some contacts he has inside Valve to try and deal with this shitstorm.[/quote']Sooooo...this is basically the equivalent of Voldemort defending Harry Potter?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 @Ama: More or less - on the topic of other mages stealing their spells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Now I've got an image of Arthmoor with Harry Potter glasses on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadaun Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Now I've got an image of Arthmoor with Harry Potter glasses on... Â To Photoshop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Uh oh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I decided to do a very quick in-and-out chime about this on SW: http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1349500-mod-stealing-and-recopying/page__view__findpost__p__20338763Let's put an end to any speculation about Bethesda's stance on this behavior. I sincerely doubt they would be encouraging modders to do something "in violation" of their own EULA, like offering to enforce upload permissions (and thus pressing for those permissions to be requested and granted).EDIT: And some idiot decided I needed a primer course on what was going on there. Alright then, allow me to explain why I know more than you do about what is going on:Right... I don't need a primer as to what's going on here, I've been following along behind the scenes for quite some time. So if you wish to know my stance: I consider this file stolen, you are not going to convince me otherwise so don't bother trying. The author of the mod has the final say in its distribution, just as Bethesda has the final say over Skyrim's distribution. Just because it is free does NOT mean it is public domain, and Bethesda's EULA does NOT prevent the author from claiming copyright on his mod.The posting in the description is a blatant quote-mining, and anyone who has any experience in reading legal documents can see that Bethesda is NOT claiming full ownership. They are claiming usage and reproduction rights for themselves and ONLY themselves. Neither you, nor me, nor the uploader is included in that description, and as such none of us are waived from copyright infringement. The original copyright of the mod remains with the author, as per the DMCA. I wanted to add more, but the character limit stopped me. Want that quote-mined passage in plain English? "We waive ourselves of copyright infringement for anything we wish to do with the file the author has uploaded under applicable DMCA statutes. Any attempt to pursue legal action against us for this may result in your losing your usage rights to the Creation Kit."Not exactly the same thing as claiming ownership of the mod for themselves, nor are they rescinding the author's copyright of the mod. And notice that they mention the users precisely nowhere? Sorry, boneheads, but you don't get the same privileges Bethesda reserved for themselves, because they only gave them to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 You got precisely the expected reaction too. Hurr durr it's a mod of a mod. You see where Yo-Landi flat out admitted she'd have no qualms about uploading an altered copy of Dawnguard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I know, I was expecting something similar to that to be the reply the instant I posted. Which is why I was prepared to back myself up on it. See my above edits for my reply.Of course, that means I'm now a sympathizer bastard now because I can read a legal document worth a damn enough to see that it was quote-mined. I'm done there now, I'm not even going to bother with those idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yes, but the EULA has been quoted to those people six ways from Sunday and explained in gory detail. They simply don't want to hear it. They're pirates. It's so obvious it hurts. I'd wager that each one of them is sitting on a games library that's equal parts paid and stolen and they see nothing wrong with that. The mentality is identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yes' date=' but the EULA has been quoted to those people six ways from Sunday and explained in gory detail. They simply don't want to hear it. They're pirates. It's so obvious it hurts. I'd wager that each one of them is sitting on a games library that's equal parts paid and stolen and they see nothing wrong with that. The mentality is identical.[/quote']And I know that, as well. You can never argue the law with thieves outside the courtroom. Which is why I'm not even going to try. I made my statement, I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Can't argue morals with them either, so that doesn't leave much else to bother with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Well. It seems Giskard's contact may have been the way to go, I've already received a response back promising to have a look at the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Interesting. Good. Are they going to look at the other mods listed in the stolen mod collection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I don't know if it would help or not, but I know someone who doesn't under what the big deal is. He thinks what Bonehedge/Yo-landi did was fine.So here's how I responded: It's far worse than what Bonehedge did. There's another guy, [edited], that has taken all of Arthmoor's mods, renamed them and claims that he created them.As I said in my other [edited] response, it's also a matter of practicality. These people aren't going to support the stuff they steal, so players will find the original author and bitch about bugs. Bugs which were probably fixed several versions back and that that person didn't get because he downloaded from an unauthorized site. We won't even bother talking about the malware that can be introduced in such instances.You compose music. How about I grab it, add it to my mod and claim it was an original composition I put together. Or I take your composition, change a few notes, and give you credit. It isn't what you created. Who knows, maybe the new notes sound like shit and now everybody thinks you're a lousy composer. Get it?That won't help convince the trolls, but it might be another way of explaining to those who just don't get what the big deal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ysne58 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Arthmoor, I think you should go the route of adding that dependency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 We'll see about the dependency thing. There will be no reason not to if the SW situation doesn't work out, because that master dependency would also get used for all of my villages, and it wouldn't be that difficult to leverage everything I've done so far to require it. These thieves have no idea how to deal with that and it would completely stop them from stealing and uploading stuff to SW.Besides, imagine the interaction possibilities if everything I have can share a common resource pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Kaira Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Aaaand predictably, the trolls have launched a full-on assault on your blog post.Time to break out the Banhammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Banhammer is unnecessary. I have an anti-spam hammer that's far more useful which carries repercussions well beyond just my blog. Frankly I'd rather have the shitstorm redirected there anyway so it's out of the view of the main body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ysne58 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Where do these people get off thinking that they are affiliates, licensors or distributors for Bethesda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwip Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Because it lets them think they can get away with asshattery, obviously.Meanwhile, posting in random political topics at Samson's blog just to keep the Steam stuff from overwhelming everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndalayBay Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hopefully Bethesda will step up and continue to support modders on this. However if we don't get the support we need, I'm prepared to set up a private upload/download area on DC. We'd have to talk about how to set such a thing up, but I can offer such a service if it comes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 If Bethesda and/or Valve decide what Yo-Landi/Bonehenge has done is kosher, I'd be right there behind you on setting up private reserves since they'll have sent a clear signal that that's really what they want to happen. Also, the Workshop would dry up VERY quickly and a lot of modders would begin retooling their work to actively prevent it from being reuploaded there by the clueless hoardes.It probably sounds like ego inflated madness, but this situation really does hinge on the outcome of a very few mods and what gets done about their theft. Ya'll keep telling me I have a strong influence on things, do people actually want to see it exerted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ysne58 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I think at least one of em conceded defeat on your blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmoor Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 More likely they've been caught in the spam filter after I flagged their insulting posts out. I did say that had deeper repercussions than simply being pushed aside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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