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Giskard and False Accusations


Arthmoor

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Giskards Tales From the Tomb.esp [Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 4383 Removed Records: 1 Elapsed Time: 00:00 [Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 4382 Undeleted Records: 24 Elapsed Time: 00:00 Not too bad considering his normal track record. Ah. Well, the TEG public view stuff is tame by comparison to what others have revealed before in this thread. Something I'm sure Dallen can attest to. Now, if we had someone who still has access to that part I bet there's some choice words being thrown around again now that he's back. Probably something like "dammit, why is that guy STILL involved" :P All of us here no doubt have more knowledge than their entire collective combined.
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@Samson; I'm pretty sure that all the forums on TEG are publicly viewable now (though they definitely weren't on the previous forum), but then since I've never registered an account there I wouldn't know for sure.
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Well, no. Most of the forums still require registration and approval to view. You can read his blog, download (part of) his mods, and a small "introduction forum." Any way: He's all set for Skyrim. [url=http://www.theengineeringguild.co.uk/entry.php?88-My-Skyrim-Mod-License]Giskard planning on rejoining society? Maybe not.[/url]
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To Giskard: [quote]You know, I hate licenses, the only reason for having one is because certain groups on beth's forum when given open permission to edit anything of mine they liked, decided to thank me by attacking my versions of my mods in order to promote their own and invaded my mod thread to do it too. No thank you, nothing but flames and trouble is what I got for my being so generious.[/quote] Nobody decided to thank you by bashing your work. Nobody was promoting their own version of anything over your originals. None of us wanted that. We were simply trying to tell you that the CS makes messes of things and offer you a means with which to correct that mess. Elminster never wanted to maintain a fork of Kvatch Aftermath. He was trying, perhaps bluntly, to inform you of the problem so you could do the fix yourself and go from there. Your reception to this is what led him to offer the fixed version under YOUR OWN LICENSING TERMS. [quote]I am thinking of allowing anybody to edit my mods again on the condition they show a little gratitude and avoid flaming or attacking me, my website or my original mods. Promoting their cool new features rather than bashing mine.[/quote] Good, the more the better, and you may just find that the community scene for Skyrim turns out to be more favorable for you. Again, nobody was flaming your mods, your website, or even you at first. You left people with no choice though when you adopted the very tactics you claim to despise. That said, don't expect those of us who migrate to put up with any shit thrown by you with regard to various tools which may end up existing. You clearly don't know what they do or why and are thus not qualified to render judgment against them. You always claim nobody but you know how your mods work, the same logic applies. Only the people who develop the tools truly know how they work. Although they ARE the product of large scale collaboration which you have purposefully isolated yourself from. [quote]Another condition will be they support their own mod users and fix their own mistakes because I will not be cleaning up other peoples mess. I will only be supporting my own versions directly.[/quote] Nobody ever asked you to support alternate versions of your work that you allowed to be edited under your own license. It might have been necessary from time to time to ask you if something was supposed to work a certain way or not, but it never came to that when you decided to withdraw yourself from the greater community. [quote]I'll probably include instructions on how rename the mods so people can change the name to make them unique and insist they do so.[/quote] And nobody will question your right to ask for this. It's not even a bad idea. [quote]This should allow all those keen modders wanting to make their own flavour of my mods happy and still give me the power to deny the trolls any chance to edit my mods "IF" they forget their manners this time around or become pricks.[/quote] You're in no position to talk about people having manners or becoming pricks. The people you're backhandely referring to here aren't going to be interested in revision work on your stuff, they'll be making their own stuff. As will I. That's how things work. If you don't want people making revisions of your mod, just say so in your license and nobody will have a problem with that. [quote]This may not happen but it is something I want to do and used to do for Oblivion until the trouble started. At which point I stopped.[/quote] Trouble you started, but why let a little thing like facts get in the way, right? If you feed the community bullshit, expect to be challenged on it, period. Don't threaten to call the cops, because for one they'd laugh at you, and for another, you've let enough evidence in public places that *I* could call the cops on *YOU* and get *YOU* charged with cyberstalking under California law. I have sense enough to understand that they have more important things to do though. Like catching murderers. (He probably won't read this though, too bad. He's welcome to come here and debate this issue in the open though.)
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Someone will read it, no doubt. Tell you what: Next time Giskard is in California, Samson can charge him with cyberstalking. Next time Samson is in Glasgow, Giskard can charge him with cyberstalking. More than likely, both cases will be sumarily dismissed as neither poses a credible threat to the other, and there is no monetary consideration. At most, they can go to civil court and get injunctions (which will be null and void because neither is in the other's jurisdiction) against each other. So, Samson, when your in Scotland-stay off TEG. Giskard, when your in California-stay away from iguanadons.net . Other than that: carry on. :popcorn: On the supporting alternative mods thing; I don't think he meant the people that revised the mods wanted him to support his work. It's just what 'happens'. Especially when the part of the read-me that tells you where to go for help links to Giskard's sight.
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I thought I made it clear I wasn't planning to waste my time on filing charges? Yes, even if he comes to California. I mean, unless of course he comes here and then hunts me down or something. Then I'd have to do something about it. Although that would likely be me calling the cops after laying him out on the front lawn.
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[quote]Yes, even if he comes to California. I mean, unless of course he comes here and then hunts me down or something. Then I'd have to do something about it. Although that would likely be me calling the cops after laying him out on the front lawn.[/quote] That would make for an interesting local news story :tongue:
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Thanks for the whole story. I managed to miss the Giskard saga. I was around in late 2007/2008 but left Oblivion for a couple of years and then returned. I'm now working on a mod with a former member of Giskard's team. Of all the opinions she has of him, the predominant one is hurt. She and the other members worked their asses off for him. In the end he took all the credit and published the mod(s) as a one-man effort. I don't think anything more needs to be said. Her other greatest hurt over the whole thing is the friends she lost in the process. Since Giskard has managed to get himself banned from every public site there is, my teammate lost contact with a number of people she considers online friends. They left the modding community hurt and disillusioned. That's the real shame - he not only hurts himself, but all those who believed and stood by him.
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He does have a habit of using other's efforts as his own. Also, of isolating people.One of the biggest travesties I saw as a member of the guild was his habit of panning his members for ideas and other efforts for "guild mods", only to later find some character flaw with the individual, (usually to do with some obscure rule of his) and then get rid of them, of course not giving them credit when he published the mod. Otherwise, you can just take it. I hope to see you and your friends effort soon; hopefully, it will not take long for her to regain the contacts she once had-or establish new ones. If nothing else, this place is a great place to start. Over to the side, you will see a link to "afk mods"-if your friend isn't comfortable jumping in to the larger community just yet; that's a place to get her feet wet.
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So I see Giskard is once again proving himself to be the world's biggest hypocrite. I wonder how long it will take before someone re-releases one of his mods under those terms with a few bugs fixed and he goes apeshit and scraps this new license again? @AndalayBay: So we can add vanity to the already insurmountable list of vices we've built for him now, too? Jeez, does this guy have any redeeming qualities? :stare:
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Well, yes: he's tenacious. Interestingly, he's added a "poison pill" rule to his forum; which basically says if you leave the guild (or are removed, presumably) you can't say bad things about the guild. Only it's his own poison pills which got him banned from most of the other sites. Don't you know that Giskard mods do not have "bugs", nor do they have CS dirt. They have "technologically in-congruent features" to help make the mods completely incompatible with anything else the user might want to use, at least in that space.
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His only real good quality appears to be the ability to mod really hard and 'maintain' a large range of mods. Unfortunately, as we all know, his refusal to take advantage of even the most basic third party tools as well as being a violent flamer who's managed to get himself removed from the modding community has effectively rendered that good quality redundant. BTW; anyone noticed [url=http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=38513]this[/url]. Its a map of the UL project, but its extremely old, to say the least. And interesting look at the past of the project, in any case.
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Even the "mod really hard" part isn't entirely him. One or two of the earlier mods-maybe-but since the inception of the guild, it's always been a collaborative effort. At one time, he was content to let it be "a team" (such as dragon captions), but then things went pair shaped with them, as well (although most of the members of the DC team are members of the guild.).
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Yeah, I'm a member of AFK too. I think I will recommend it to a couple of my team members actually. I do like the irony of AFK getting flooded with DBC team members, if they decide to join :lol: I'm surprised this guy is still around. I guess some folks never give up.
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So once more the theory of he who accuses others of is most likely himself doing is validated. He accuses others of ripping off "his" work, then turns out to be ripping off the work of others himself. How typical. Whoever these folks are who have been burned by him, they shouldn't have reason to fear being accepted by the mainstream community. While it sucks to be burned by such an evil person (and no other word describes him at this point) the rest of the community is not like that. In fact, I'm fairly certain that had they stood their ground, Giskard would have been forced out entirely and properly branded as the thief he apparently is. Unless that already happened and he's surrounded by other thieves and sycophants who honestly don't care who they're dealing with.
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He's actually fairly quick on the ban hammer if he finds unaccredited resources in mods others post on his site. Depending on who it is, he might give them a PM warning to properly accredit-but for "joe blow modder", its usually your just banned for no explaination. Other times, people will make a mod; or have a concept for a feature...and a few days later, that mod and/or comments related to that feature will be gone; then a few days later, either a new mod by Giskard will appear, or an update to an old one will-complete with that feature. Small mods that are kind of "meh" are perfectly safe, however.
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How exactly is he getting away with this? Surely even sycophants can't be cool with having their work stolen? Plus, CURP is nothing but a conglomeration of other peoples' meshes and textures. He's in no position to whine about other folks "stealing" that since he's got quite a bit in there that's not properly credited. No doubt the REAL reason he got banned from Nexus.
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The person I'm referring to (I don't think you know her, she's not a "public" member of the DBC), didn't really understand what was going on. She's not a technical person, so when people started arguing about dirty mods, she didn't understand what that meant and couldn't offer an opinion. At first she defended Giskard, as did many of the other team members. She doesn't really want to discuss it, but from what she did say, I have the impression he turned on his team mates too. Then when mods got released with no credit to the team, they realized what was really going on. I wouldn't really call her an active modder, so while she has a Bethesda forums account, she doesn't post very much. I don't think it's an issue of fear or anything like that. I think it's more an issue of just being disheartened over the whole thing and really not interested in participating anymore. This is strictly my opinion. She doesn't even post very much in our forums on ModCraft. She might be pretty busy with RL at this point too. It's just amazing how far-reaching the fallout out is over this thing.
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Your right, of course, about what CURP is. That said, I don't think it existed when he got banned from nexus; I believe he decided to make a master file that would be required by all guild mods (apparently no longer the case) sometime in between version 4 of OMG and version 2.5 of TEC and Kvatch Rising was introduced @ about that time. Which isn't to say he didn't do something simular before. Interestingly the description for CURP says: [quote=theengineeringguild download page]allows you to easily use many of the fine modders resources that exist out there in your own mod without needing to add the meshes, textures or test them your self (which is a lot of messing around even if you do know what you are doing). [/quote] So, there at least, he's admitting it's not his work.
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1. CURP-as mentioned above. 2. The legion feature of TEC started as another guild members's project and just before the legion feature was announced that member was banned (for not giving proper credit for the scripts and textures, btw) and the file removed. 3. Textures and Meshes throughout the Cyrodiil Upgrade Overhaul city series are used w/o accreditation. Or at least w/o accreditation anyones' going to notice. 4. Rocks used throughout the CUO series. (This one is an inside joke-it's perfectly fine to use Bethseda's rocks in your mod.) 5. Animations used in TEC, OMG, later versions of KA, KRIS, and The Necromancer are all from outside sources. That's just from the top of my head. Plus whatever Andalay Bay was working on.
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Playing devil's advocate here, but if there is a credit entry for the original creators of those resources, and if the original creators of those resources stated that they are resources free for others to use, then that is not ripping off other modder's work, that is simply making use of what is freely available to all - Better Cities is packed with similar (some identical to those used by Giskard in his mods) resources created by other modders, and all are credited in a file in our archive. The CURP for example contains an HTML file titled "Credits", and contains links to the original download locations for each resource (links missing from the below quote as I can't be bothered to convert the HTML code into forum code). [quote=CURP_Credits]Cyrodiil Upgrade Resource Pack Links and Credits. Below is a list of resources used in The Cyrodiil Upgrade Resource Pack together with the name of the Mod Maker that made them and links to the original resources. You should be able to use these links to send kudos, donations or thanks to the original mod makers if you desire. Z's Skeleton Horses by Always Z (Zhemoc) Barabus' Cryptset for Oblivion v1 by Barabus & Razorwing Hanging Skeletons by Andysaurus Misc Windows by Xiamara Cooking Range/Oven (for Oblivion) by Barabus & Xiamara Gallows by Phitt AlchemistSink by Helborne AlchemyWallChartResource by Helborne EnchantingAlterBrazier by Helborne Filled Bookshelves by Helborne UpperClassWeapRacks by Helborne Manor Bedroom Set by Xiamara Qarls_Webs by Qarl Full Wine Racks Modder's Resource by Xiamara Potion_Bottles by Jannix Quinn Dwarven City by mr_siika Basement Addons by meo3000 IceCavern Tileset Part 1 by Raistlin2002 IceCavern Tileset Part 2 by Raistlin2002 Kvatch Stuff by Giskard Elder Council & Arenthia Stuff by Giskard Misc Parts by Giskard No link, these are scattered all over my work. Bats by Siika Lore Creature Expansion by Grimdeath, B3w4r3, Martigen & Syko Fox Loreless Creature Pack 1 = Phitt Foxes by Mr Siika Hairy Spiders by Malo and elveon Rabbits by Mr Siika Farm Animals by Mr Siika Ghogiels Armor Resource by Ghogiels Morrowind Hlaau Armor and Bonemold Helmet by Ginnungagap Ordinators and High Ordinators by Zenith92 & Cryo Dreugh Armour by Ghogiels Elven Elite Armor by alexscorpion Elven Armours by Aknevrec Ayleid Meteoric by Madcat221 Hel Bornes Morrowind Style Dwemer Weapons for OB by helborne Detailed Textures for Helbornes MW Style Dwemer Weapons by Fearabbit Telvanni Tileset by JonesTheBond Blackmarsh Village huts by Koniption Created for my Blackmarsh mod so no links, sorry. Lost Spires material by LiquidGraph http://www.lostspires.com/pages/downloads.htm Morrowind Soul Gems By Razorwing Better Ports by mr_siika Dwemer Clutter, Chairs, Crates etc by Koniption No link, made for this mod. Thanks Koniption :) Slofs Robe Trader by Alienslof Mighty Mannimarcos Robe by Aknevrec Skeleton Staff By Jannix (Made for the Necromancer) Globes of Tamriel by DavidWhitefang (3 different mods) Globes of Tamriel by DavidWhitefang (3 different mods) Globes of Tamriel by DavidWhitefang (3 different mods) KoniptionsKreations - ResourcePack 1 by Koniption ReTextured Curtains Set1 by PhantomVoid Added to V1.1 of the Cyrodiil Upgrade Resource Pack Armamentarium: Staffs v1.0 by Trollf Highland_Furniture by exilehunter Havoked Barrel By RPG-BlackDragon and MrMuh (part of their Havok mods) Added to V1.4.1 of the Cyrodiil Upgrade Resource Pack Knights of Black Worm Armour by Giskard (only available in the resource pack) Added to V1.4.5 of the Cyrodiil Upgrade Resource Pack Kagrenacs Tools Resources by Star Boi Kagrenacs Tools playable version by Ceano Added to V1.4.7 of the Cyrodiil Upgrade Resource Pack Witch & Witch Hunter Faction support starts to be added in this version. Watch out for the CUO NewDialog adding voice support to these in the future. Added new black cat made, for CURP by Giskard Added new witches curses, made for CURP by Giskard Added new witches potions, made for CURP by Giskard Added the new Witches faction, made for CURP by Giskard Added to V1.4.8 of the Cyrodiil Upgrade Resource Pack 0_1 Dwemer Technology PartII Dwemer mod by mr_siika and centurion Misc ambient sounds added by Giskard (all freely available online) Added Dwemer Cultery By Giskard Added limited Dwemer potions and beer By Giskard[/quote] Any resource a mod uses which is an edited file from the original game, I don't believe anyone ever bothers to specifically credit (some simply credit Bethesda for the game as a whole), it is not expected that a modder should say he/she has retextured five rock meshes, twenty house meshes, two Anvil dock meshes etc. from Bethesda. As I recall, Giskard made it quite clear that if his mod moves a rock, that rock is HIS rock, thus no credit is necessary there as he moved it so he owns it. I do agree that there doesn't appear to be a credit for the idle anims used in the mods, but it is so difficult to find out who actually originally made these files (maybe Giskard created them himself in which case there is no concern), I've struggled in the past to find out the original creator of some idle anims used in BC. Only the legion features used in TEC sound like possible theft, and then you have no evidence since the original modder working on a similar mod had all his postings wiped out (Giskard regularly purges data to cover his tracks so that he can deny any wrong-doing when challenged, and play the victim). It has always amused me that Ismelda Lasombra (Better Cities Team leader), someone who has been labelled as "one to watch out for" by some of Giskard's followers, has been in the Credits & Thanks for Origin of the Mages Guild for at least as long as I have known of Giskard and his mods. @ AndalayBay: What is DBC?
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I only mentioned the Rocks thing because of that rant thing Giskard did about how "remove identical to master" removes "his" rock. No, it doesn't. It tells the processor it only has to read Beth's rock once...and replicate it 37,878 times. So, actually it's not even an edited file (I just caught that you said that) . If you actually edit the rock, it is not identical to master, and therefore it is *your* rock. Sort of same thing with undelete and deactivate. It does not change *your* rock; it puts Beth's rock back in the toy box so others can play. Actually, Giskard himself said something like that about Ismelda...I just don't remember what. On the legion part: in all fairness, the person was never able to get it to work as intended, and Giskard was. Still, the idea of it was someone *not* Giskard. Later, the person (I believe his user name was yugi something, but I can't be sure now-it's been a long time) put the original (still not working) file on Nexus. After that, someone discovered (it was not noted in the description or read-me) that the mod was dependent on two other mods to function. Bben made a note of that in the description. After that, someone noticed that in the read-me of one of the two mods the author explicitly denied permission to use his models.The other one said that you had to contact him for permissions. So, it was removed from Nexus as well...and I have no idea what happened to that person...I never saw them again.
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@Vorians - [url=http://www.modcraft.net/community/forum/1020-the-dark-brotherhood-chronicles-dbc/]Dark Brotherhood Chronicles[/url] I'm one of the team leads now. The person I'm referring was a member of his team. Apparently at one point he made it clear that all the work done on a particular mod was his and his alone. I don't know all the details and the person I was talking about really doesn't want to discuss it.
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Well, with my present load order containing all that special stuff, including the Patched Bash and nearly every plugin being busted up and destroyed by TES4Edit and it's broken-as-shit cleaning process as well as all sorts of compatibility patches to even further destroy my load order... and basically following every modding practice that it is possible to get banned from TEG for doing... ...it has been three days since my last crash. My savegames are rock solid, and to say the least, I am in Oblivion heaven right now. For those wondering, my sessions are roughly two hours long, OSR Heap Mode 5 w/ size 450 on a 32bit OS. That's pretty damn good, if I may say so. :grinning: /brag
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