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I got two Dawnbreaker during Meridia's Daedric quest


Leonardo

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What the title says...

Here is my loadorder and I really doubt any mod in my loadorder could add a second Dawnbreaker in the last cell there Malkoran is. 

Active Mod Files:

 

* 00  Skyrim.esm
* 01  Update.esm
* 02  Dawnguard.esm
* 03  Hearthfires.esm
* 04  Dragonborn.esm
* 05  Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp  [Version 4.1.2]
* 06  Campfire.esm
* 07  TravellersOfSkyrim.esm
* 08  ApachiiHair.esm
* 09  Cutting Room Floor.esp  [Version 3.0.3]
* 0A  Bring Out Your Dead.esp  [Version 4.0.1]
* 0B  Barrels and Crates.esp
* 0C  Castle Volkihar Rebuilt.esp  [Version 2.0]
* 0D  Practice Dummies.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
* 0E  Dragon Claw Stands.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
* 0F  Breezehome Loft Crafting.esp
* 10  Point The Way.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
* 11  Run For Your Lives.esp  [Version 4.0]
* 12  Keld-Nar.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
* 13  Word Walls Relocated.esp
* 14  Ars Metallica.esp  [Version 2.0.3]
* 15  Darkwater Crossing.esp  [Version 2.0.2]
* 16  Dolmen Ruins.esp  [Version 2.0.2]
* 17  Shor's Stone.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
* 18  Skyshards.esp  [Version 1.0.2]
* 19  Frostfall.esp
* 1A  Ivarstead.esp  [Version 2.0.2]
* 1B  Manor Roads.esp  [Version 1.0]
* 1C  Helarchen Creek.esp  [Version 2.0.2]
* 1D  Kynesgrove.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
* 1E  Whistling Mine.esp  [Version 2.0.3]
* 1F  Soljund's Sinkhole.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
* 20  Karthwasten.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
* 21  Dragon Bridge.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
* 22  Bee Hives.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
* 23  The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp  [Version 2.0]
* 24  CWQuartermasters.esp  [Version 2.0]
* 25  TravellersOfSkyrim - Vanilla.esp
* 26  TravellersOfSkyrim - Dragonborn Addon.esp
* 27  Skyrim Map Markers.esp  [Version 1.8]
* 28  AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
* 29  FollowersCanLoot.esp
* 2A  moredragonloot.esp
* 2B  IcePenguinWorldMap.esp
* ++  lighterdbs.esp
* 2C  CraftableSkaalforFrostfall.esp
* 2D  lightthiefarmor.esp
* 2E  immersiveloverscomfort.esp
* 2F  ReportXYZ.esp
* 30  SkyUI_SE.esp
* 31  PassiveWeaponEnchantmentRecharging.esp
* 32  JMR Camp Storage - Requires Campfire.esp
* ++  Skyrim Unlimited Rings And Amulets SSE.esp
* 33  Heavy Deathbrand.esp
* 34  Greybeard Clothing.esp
* ++  LongerTradeSkillsbartercarrypotions.esp
* 35  Open Cities Skyrim.esp
* 36  Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp  [Version 4.0.2a]
* 37  Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp
* 38  RDO - AFT v1.66 Patch.esp
* 39  RDO - CRF + USSEP Patch.esp
* 3A  Bashed Patch, 0.esp
* 3B  Dawnguard Map Markers.esp  [Version 1.0.1]

Except for USSEP of course, I'm not saying that USSEP actually added a second Dawnbreaker, but that's the most logical explaination I can think of.

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Leo, I've moved your topic to where it belongs since your logic is flawed and USSEP was not the cause of whatever happened here. Please do not post things in the wrong place when trying to troubleshoot an issue when you have so many other mods installed. Especially since this is clearly NOT a vanilla bug either.

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34 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

~ I'm not saying that USSEP actually added a second Dawnbreaker, but that's the most logical explaination I can think of.

I have done that part of the game approximately 9 times with USSEP installed, and having 2 Dawnbreakers is not something I have ever experienced.

You have a lot of mods (possibly with questionable practices by new mod authors not converting them properly to SSE), you are also a newbie at producing your own plugins ... Maybe the CK has done one of those inclusion of something you did not intend moments, which you need to check for after the CK has saved your plugin (random wild / dirty edits putting records in your plugin you did not know about .. The UPP team have to check for those all the time)

Edit : Ninja'd :ninja:

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11 minutes ago, alt3rn1ty said:

I have done that part of the game approximately 9 times with USSEP installed, and having 2 Dawnbreakers is not something I have ever experienced.

After you defeated Malkoran, did you notice a Dawnbreaker on the floor before activating the pedistal that had a quest marker?

Then after you pick it up and activated the pedistal, did you also notice the message saying that "Dawnbreaker added" and a few seconds later you're pulled out from there and was in heaven and heard Meridia speaks to you.

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No, I always had to activate the pedestal to get the Dawnbreaker, I have not seen it on the floor prior to activating the pedestal.

Having done it a few times I also know to loot everything first before activating the pedestal, and then being elevated out of there by Meridia.

 

I must admit though I have seen someone else mention before that they had seen the sword somehow knocked out of the pedestal (cant remember where).

I dont know how that would be made possible .. Other mods, Magic spell or a shout maybe, chaos physics engine going a bit wonky with too high a frame rate?.

Maybe if that is the case, then picking it up off the floor and then activating the pedestal would achieve giving you a second sword.

But I have not seen the same myself.

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13 minutes ago, alt3rn1ty said:

I must admit though I have seen someone else mention before that they had seen the sword somehow knocked out of the pedestal (cant remember where).

I dont know how that would be made possible .. Other mods, Magic spell or a shout maybe, chaos physics engine going a bit wonky with too high a frame rate?.

Maybe if that is the case, then picking it up off the floor and then activating the pedestal would achieve giving you a second sword.

 

Apparently its doable :

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Break_of_Dawn

Quote
  • Using a projectile spell, such as Fireball, on the altar holding Dawnbreaker may create a copy of it which flies across the room. It can be picked up before removing the original from the altar to end the quest, leaving two Dawnbreakers in inventory.

 

.. And :

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Break_of_Dawn

Quote
  • You can obtain a duplicate Dawnbreaker by knocking it off of its pedestal with an area-of-effect spell during the battle with Malkoran. Retrieve the sword on the ground prior to the sword in the stand to keep both.

 

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So, it is a vanilla bug then and here is a picture showing two Dawnbreaker in my inventory.

20180305001638_1.thumb.jpg.bdf97f927e242822fe5fa9f39e2335c7.jpg

My guess is that there is a script attached to the pedistal and should Dawnbreaker be pulled out for anything e.g spell, shout then the script will atuomatically add another Dawnbreaker before the pedistal being activated by the player.

I dunno if that's possible or not, but it does sounds logical to me.

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You having a pic of 2 in your inventory does not prove it to be a vanilla bug.

Nor does having such reports on wiki sites that are both known for not properly verifying the information they keep on bugs. Believe it or not, the internet can be wrong.

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Quite a few people on steam community have had the same - But I dont know what is in there Load Orders

Did a search on YouTube for "Two Dawnbreaker" that got a few videos up of the problem being experienced - But I cant watch the vids at work so a ) I do not know what is in their Load Orders and, b ) I cant see if they are showing an AOE spell actually knocking it out of the pedestal

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1118&bih=782&tbm=vid&ei=vOqcWqq6PIT0gQa_8pzYDg&q=two+dawnbreaker

When I get off night shift I will do a vanilla only setup, and go through it until I can experiment with spells on the pedestal and do a video of the sword flying out of its holding place. Might be a week away before I get around to it.

 

One thing I dont envy though .. If this is a vanilla game bug then judging by the amount of people wanting Dual Wielding Dawnbreakers on YouTube, any fix is not going to be a popular fix. I think personally I would just let it stay in the game :)

"Subjective fix - Why you take my extra Dawnbreaker away - If its possible to blow it out of its holder and Meridia magically gives you a duplicate then thats not a bug, its Meridia not expecting you to be able to pick it up .. stupid Daedra is stupid, like Unofficial patch team" - And other similar comments repeated with annoying regularity

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4 hours ago, Arthmoor said:

You having a pic of 2 in your inventory does not prove it to be a vanilla bug.

I think it does prove that, because we all know that Daedric artifacts are unique and unique items should only be one item of.

I didn't search on YouTube before I posted this thread, but after alt posted those wiki links about the getting two Dawnbreaker I searched for the video and I this video describes pretty much what happen to me last night.

This is almost what happen when I got two Dawnbreaker and this is what I did that could explain why I got two Dawnbreaker.

I didn't approached as the PC did in the video, instead I used spells e.g casting a fire rune spell while keeping my distance and a second later I heard the sounds of one these flesh spells then the enemy came after me and Lydia.

 

This video shows exactly what can happen when using spells.

 

Edited by Leonardo
Video added
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7 hours ago, Leonardo said:

I think it does prove that, because we all know that Daedric artifacts are unique and unique items should only be one item of.

No Leo, to prove its a vanilla bug, you need to be playing without any mods installed, none at all. Just the vanilla game, if you can show the issue happening without any mods, then its a vanilla bug ..

And so all those people making videos of the problem, there is always the possibility they are all playing with a similar bunch of mods (STEP project setup recomendation for example) and so will all be experiencing the same issue.

Another example, one bad mesh in SMIM which just about the whole world is using could be a culprit, or qualities of the spells being used etc etc (I am not saying these things are the problem)

Until you disprove all possibility that a mod or third party resources are involved, you can not prove its a vanilla game bug.

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I was unable to test it in plain vanilla since my gamesave was corrupt and couldn't be loaded, so after I got a CTD four times in a row I was able to create a normal save.

I had no other choice then to activate the most important mods, just to load that gamesave.

Still the same result the Dawnbreaker was found on the ground in front of the pedistal and after activating the pedistal I got a second Dawnbreaker.

Despite for deactivating over half of my current installed mods, I still get two Dawnbreaker.

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:whistle:Ehm testing vanilla also requires a fresh game start so that there are no residual problems brought into your game from an old save which has lost its masters and has now got baked in save issues. You cant just drop all your mods and continue your ongoing game .. Surely you know this by now for the newer TES Games ?.

I'll get around to it myself when I have more time, so I can go from a fresh start with no mods or resources and play through to the Meridia quest, and will do a Windows 10 Game Bar recording of the moment I get there and use an AOE spell on the pedestal.

.. Well I hope going to this trouble is worth the effort anyway, and if proved .. is not rejected as a bug. @Arthmoor has not indicated either way whether it would get looked at or not for any kind of fix, so I am not entirely sure its worth bothering looking into at the moment. Could it even be fixed ?, or is this going to be a physics engine thing the team can not do anything with anyway ?

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Yeah, I know that. :P

31 minutes ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Could it even be fixed ?, or is this going to be a physics engine thing the team can not do anything with anyway ?

Yes, I think so because I have now played the same thing twice and that glitch gets triggered both times, so I suspect that this is not the player that triggers this instead I think it's Malkoran who triggers the glitch by standing too close to the pedistal.

Once the alarm for Malkoran is set he will cast a <name>flesh spell and the spell effect during casting it will pull out the Dawnbreaker from the pedistal, so if there is a script attached to the pedistal then script will automatically add another Dawnbreaker into the pedistal.

Otherwise there wouldn't be possible to find one Dawnbreaker on the ground at the same time there is another Dawnbreaker in the pedistal.

The fix should prevent the Dawnbreaker to be pulled out from the pedistal in the first place and only be obtainable as soon Malkoran is killed and after the pedistal is activated by the player.

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Got a vanilla setup here- but it's only Helgen- @Leo @Alt: if you can post a console script to fast track Player into the quest & location I can test. :)

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On 06/03/2018 at 2:14 AM, lmstearn said:

Got a vanilla setup here- but it's only Helgen- @Leo @Alt: if you can post a console script to fast track Player into the quest & location I can test. :)

All the info is on the UESP page for the quest http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Break_of_Dawn

Usually you have to wait for a beacon to appear in any Boss chest and pick it up to start the quest, but I think if you set stage 50 The Break of Dawn (DA09) (bottom of the UESP page) that should trigger it. But really you need the beacon artifact itself to put in the statue and trigger Meridias speach/light trail.

Location South West of Solitude, centre of the map here http://srmap.uesp.net/?locx=-93340&locy=99890&zoom=14

You have to talk with Meridia outside the dungeon after placing the beacon, then wade through all the enemies in the ruins below you to clear them out and finish the quest, otherwise Meridia will not elevate you out of the place when you pick up the sword. But prior to that, make sure you have an area of effect spell to blast the pedestal with, then search the place for where the sword has twanged off to (could be anywhere, maybe worth saving before entering where Malkoran is, in case random spells by NPCs hit the pedestal instead during the fight).

Unless you are using more console commands (not good for proving vanilla issues), if your PC is at an early level you will find this quest to be hard if not impossible to do, you are coming up against a Lich and his shadow creatures. So its best done with I reckon a level 20 character, maybe more.

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6 hours ago, lmstearn said:

Got a vanilla setup here- but it's only Helgen- @Leo @Alt: if you can post a console script to fast track Player into the quest & location I can test. :)

What's your level for your PC?

If it's below 12 then you need to use the console to level up, so to speak, to let say level 15-20 then goto to Embershard Mine as it's fairly close to Helgen and that mine has a big boss chest.

player.advlevel x

Once you pick all stuff from a big boss chest, make sure you see a Meridia Beacon item in that chest (shown as a similiar gemstone), a new quest will be triggered.

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Okay, give me a bit, updating stuff... Might also use one of these scripts (with modification) - note his load ordering recommendation weirdly accords to what we are using now! Arthmoor would have then been delighted to know that:

Quote

The patches should still be effective. If someone finds that this is not the case, drop me a comment and I'll consider publishing a USKP version to accommodate load orders.

:lmao:

Scrap that, ToxicBrown1's should do the trick, even though the addperk refs may fail. :P

Fun Hint: Do not add any COC commands in these perk files as it freezes Skyrim. Task Manager required.

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Just to make it clear, console testing to arrive at things without doing them properly is not acceptable for us. If you're trying to get into the dungeon as soon as possible, use an alt-start and pick a location near it if you want, but use of the console invalidates any test results you might have. Too much gets bypassed by using it.

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But Meridia's quest requires level 12 to include Meridia's Beacon in a big boss chest, so using the console might be needed to advance the level for the player then pick up Meridia's Becaon to even start the quest.

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Sounds like you need to spend some time leveling up then and searching dungeons once you hit level 12.

Proper bug testing requires playing the game the proper way. That's why it often takes us so long to properly reproduce a report, and why we often end up not being able to - because it turns out the console use is what broke things to start with.

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Yep I failed to mention it specifically but if I end up doing this it would be without any console commands so that the use of those do not have any unforeseen effects on the outcome (like setting stage and not actually having the required beacon artifact in this case etc).

@Leonardo and @lmstearn when I said it really needs done from a fresh start with no mods, I meant literally that, you have to go all the way to the quest through the game by following the normal progression of things - Including levelling up to what I think ought to be around level 20 for this quest (you cant resort to using TGM either). On UESP they recommend level 20-24, but personally I know I can do this at 20, Malkoran falls to strong archery and arrows laced with potions quite quickly and you can get a few shots on him before wading through his companions (or temporarily retreating up the corridor a bit).

On 05/03/2018 at 9:25 PM, alt3rn1ty said:

~ I'll get around to it myself when I have more time, so I can go from a fresh start with no mods or resources and play through to the Meridia quest, ~

Another tip for testing vanilla bugs - In this case I will make a save before I go into the chamber where Malkoran is, but if I have to use that save to load up again .. ALWAYS quit to desktop first, and load up the entire game and the save. If you die and then immediately load up your save, you may have residual memory states mess up the results of the normal progression of things.

 

This is why it always takes me ages to test things for the Unofficial Patches (or I am on shift, like now), and usually Arthmoor is producing a new version before I get anywhere near testing the beta fully.

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This bug testing with a vanilla setup seems to be an enterprise of itself, I mean all the preperations before actually doing a vanilla bug testing.

So I wonder has anyone come up with a strategy of how to test a reported bug with a vanilla setup at all.  If not then why not start a discussion about using different strategies e.g improving certain skills etc that kind of things.

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