[WIPz] Wrye Mash

[Leonardo]

1 hour ago, Sharlikran said:

It's not to indicate supported files, but the type of files you might find there. I wouldn't want to have a complete list of possible files.  I'll see if I can make it a tooltip instead.

Do you have a "l10n" folder in your Mopy folder, and inside that do you have a Swedish.pkl file?

And a bsa is one of those file types the user might find in the Data Files folder.

Yes, I have and in that folder I also have the Swedish.pkl file.  Why do you ask?  Do you want it?

[Sharlikran]

Nope don't need it.

[Sharlikran]

You know what though. I'm noticing that pretty much no matter where I go, no matter the topic, no matter if it's discord or a forum, there are (on occasion) odd reactions to changes. Maybe I need to focus on real life for a while or TES3Edit or something.  Thanks for the feedback. 

I want to learn more Python and learn the Wrye Mash code base and attempt to get it working in the main version. That would be nice to have everything in one program. However, not to be unappreciative or rude to anyone, especially you after all the help, but I'm sort of looking to normalize how the program works with Wrye Bash/Flash/Smash etc.  I just don't think all the changes will be to everyone's liking. A Morrowind discord channel had some odd reactions to the changes even if things work better. I was surprised that the changes weren't well received.

One other thing I am confused with is that someone said it doesn't delete projects. I looked in the documentation but a project was just a folder. The folders, or I guess projects delete for me just fine.

I know what I want to get done so I think I just need to do it. However, I'm now even thinking of looking at Delphi and how I can make it do what i want even though that would be quite the project.  I have to think about things.

[Leonardo]

1 hour ago, Sharlikran said:

You know what though. I'm noticing that pretty much no matter where I go, no matter the topic, no matter if it's discord or a forum, there are (on occasion) odd reactions to changes.

I just don't think all the changes will be to everyone's liking. A Morrowind discord channel had some odd reactions to the changes even if things work better. I was surprised that the changes weren't well received.

Well what can I say about some people who are, from my point of view, eh a bit conservative about changing anything that works for a lot of people in the Morrowind modding community and have been working for ages.  Read this thread and click on the links I posted then you'll know what I mean by being a bit conservative about changing anything that worked for a very long time in the Morrowind modding community.

My advice to you is; do what you think is right and ignore them, which includes me too.

1 hour ago, Sharlikran said:

I know what I want to get done so I think I just need to do it.

You know, when you say something like that reminds me about the signature Elaura once had about a principal of modding.  It was something like this...

• Do what you want to do
• If the others doesn't like it then ignore them

 

Perhaps we have came to a point where WMSA is ready to be fully tested by the community and if anyone doesn't like the changes then they can use the original Wrye Mash 84 at the same time deal with the bugs in that old outdated version by themself.

Sometimes it pays off to give back the other side of a coin don't you think, so if people in the Morrowind modding Discord channel dislike the changes then so what.  Why should we care since we can't force anyone to use WMSA don't we.

[Sharlikran]

What are Projects though? To me it's just a folder. Do you have issues deleting Projects?

EDIT: Never mind someone else and I tested this and it works fine. Only one person had this issue.

[godescalcus]

Using WM standalone v.87 (latest version commited last nov.9). Can't drag-and-drop archives to the installers tab (.7z and .rar if that's of any relevance) and installers don't auto-refresh (at least projects don't), works if I copy files manually to the installers folder (going back to WM the installers tab automatically detects new installers and lists them). But I have to refresh manually if I make changes to the contents of the installer (like deleting documentation and extra directories). Not sure if this is the right thread to post this - will happily move to more pertinent thread if you point me there).

Edit: No longer using the standalone version, using the v87 latest dev source instead. Both issues still present. Also moving this to Wrye Mash thread. Sorry!

[godescalcus]

Brought this up on another thread by mistake (or ignorance).

Using WM v.87 latest dev source. Can't drag-and-drop archives to the installers tab (.7z and .rar if that's of any relevance) and installers don't auto-refresh (at least projects don't), works if I copy files manually to the installers folder (going back to WM the installers tab automatically detects new installers and lists them). But I have to refresh manually if I make changes to the contents of the installer (like deleting documentation and extra directories).

[godescalcus]

BTW sharlikran thanks for working on WM... After modding oblivion, skyrim and skyrim se with WB and fnv with smash, I love to be able to use more or less the same for my first morrowind mod run. So no, I'm not an old-timer and won't complain about changes that improve the work flow, especially if they bring mash closer to the other wrye managers. On this key, let me mention that both myself and another user who's been around for longer than I have got confused at first by the fact that Wrye Mash installers defaults to a funny sorting order, both by archive name and by projects first. Sure it's easy to bring it all back to proper order and use drag-and-move to sort installers, but why not defaulting to this state when you freshly install it? For one, it would make it easier for newbies to get into (dismissing any unjustified claims about steeper-than-average learning curve) and would also help some distracted veterans from manually installing a hundred mods after thinking wrye mash is too early in development LOL

[Leonardo]

5 hours ago, godescalcus said:

Brought this up on another thread by mistake (or ignorance).

Using WM v.87 latest dev source. Can't drag-and-drop archives to the installers tab (.7z and .rar if that's of any relevance) and installers don't auto-refresh (at least projects don't), works if I copy files manually to the installers folder (going back to WM the installers tab automatically detects new installers and lists them). But I have to refresh manually if I make changes to the contents of the installer (like deleting documentation and extra directories).

Why that doesn't work in WMSA is simple, because to my knowledge the drag and drop feature that exist in WB doesn't exist in WMSA.

Keep in mind that Wrye backported BAIN from WB to Wrye Mash, so there are a couple of features that exist in WB doesn't exist in WMSA.  (Another factor is that Morrowind does not have FormID records.)

And the main reason for that is that nobody in the Morrowind modding community since the day when Wrye released Wrye Mash 84 back in 2008/2009 I think, except for Melchor (he is the one who made Wrye Mash easier for everybody to install Wrye Mash by making it a stand alone hence for the WMSA acronym), Yacoby, and now Sharlikran have continued to improve WMSA.

[godescalcus]

16 hours ago, Leonardo said:

And the main reason for that is that nobody in the Morrowind modding community since the day when Wrye released Wrye Mash 84 back in 2008/2009 I think, except for Melchor (he is the one who made Wrye Mash easier for everybody to install Wrye Mash by making it a stand alone hence for the WMSA acronym), Yacoby, and now Sharlikran have continued to improve WMSA.

Exactly, and my point was also to make it clear that their work is appreciated and that also new people (myself included) come to use bash/mash these days. Countering any negative feedback. I know my issues aren't exactly "bugs" and that their not being addressed means either that they're not really important or that there were more pressing issues to deal with first, within a limited amount of time. My criticism is never, ever, detrimental of people's work. Just thought it might be worth it to mention things that (IMO) could be added/changed. I have since come accross situations where Sharlikran's fork has improved upon Yacoby's from a few years ago (like certain files, such as bmp textures, were skipped by Yacoby's but aren't anymore, which is useful as some mods contain textures in that format). Just keep up the great work, I'd help if I could.

[Leonardo]

11 hours ago, godescalcus said:

I'd help if I could.

You are already helping Sharlikran by using the latest WMSA dev.

[godescalcus]

I was reading at github and here about mlox and I downloaded two versions, one is the latest release from Sep.26 and the other is the latest commit from Nov.19. The first is an external program and the second is python. Any reason why I should use one and not the other? And what does it mean to run as an external program from the utilities tab - I suspect it's like bash/smash where you launch applications from the mod manager, which run externally. But I've read before that wrye mash should be closed when running mlox? Maybe I'm mixing up with something else.

Another suggestion I'm itching to make... activate the option to "go to installer" in the mods tab, maybe also show a column with the installers each plugin comes from

[Leonardo]

1 hour ago, godescalcus said:

I was reading at github and here about mlox and I downloaded two versions, one is the latest release from Sep.26 and the other is the latest commit from Nov.19. The first is an external progran and the second is python. Any reason why I should use one and not the other? And what does it mean to run as an external program from the utilities tab - I suspect it's like bash/smash where you launch applications from the mod manager, which run externally. But I've read before that wrye mash should be closed when running mlox? Maybe I'm mixing up with something else.

Using mlox.exe has exactly the same benefit as using WMSA, because both tools doesn't need Python at all.  While the other version of mlox requires Python.

The first version (26th Sept) you downloaded is probably the most stable to use and the other is, what you mention, based on the latest commit (19th Nov), which probably means, from my understanding, is that the latest version is an update e.g fixing a reported issue in the bugtracker.

Running from the Utilities tab is what most people do when clicking on a shortcut on the desktop/startmenu (clicking on the 'Start' button) in Windows or in Linux.

Perhaps this makes it a little clearer for you.

In WB there are a lots of buttons in the bottom while WMSA doesn't have many buttons in the bottom and for that reason using the Utilties tab instead is pretty the same as it is in WB, except for clicking on a button.

Another thing why the Utilties tab is a better way of launching external programs, because nothing needs to be added into the bash.ini file which all WB users must do otherwise any tool one want to use in WB without adding that to the bash.ini file won't work.

Also, read this (Sharlikran's post and the previous post) about mlox.

 

[godescalcus]

25 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Using mlox.exe has exactly the same benefit as using WMSA, because both tools doesn't need Python at all.  While the other version of mlox requires Python.

LOL I'm doing everything upside down, as I started with the September WMSA and am now using Nov.19 python version (no problems thus far, I was already using the python version for skyrim). Mlox is latest exe. I do understand how the program simply links and launches external apps (as opposed to another mod manager which runs them in its own virtual environment). What confused me was that I read somewhere I could launch MLOX from WM, while I had also read that WM should be closed while running MLOX.

To add to my headaches I decided to try john moonsugar's version 40 of tes3cmd, as opposed to v.37 linked everywhere. Call me mad... The damned thing took some time, some 1/2 hour looking like it hanged, but suddenly it finished and I have the patch and a whole bunch of backups 160+ (though many of them are repeated ~1 files. I hope all of this works in the end LOL

Edit: I can see you're also on the MGE-XE discussions in the beth forums, where I'm only lurking... Can I ask you if you recommend MGE XE beta-26348-0-10-0b24 ? Feedback there seems somewhat ambiguous, with some reporting success and others not.

[Leonardo]

5 hours ago, godescalcus said:

LOL I'm doing everything upside down, as I started with the September WMSA and am now using Nov.19 python version (no problems thus far, I was already using the python version for skyrim). Mlox is latest exe. I do understand how the program simply links and launches external apps (as opposed to another mod manager which runs them in its own virtual environment). What confused me was that I read somewhere I could launch MLOX from WM, while I had also read that WM should be closed while running MLOX.

You can at least try to run mlox from WMSA without closing MWSA, just to see what happens.

5 hours ago, godescalcus said:

To add to my headaches I decided to try john moonsugar's version 40 of tes3cmd, as opposed to v.37 linked everywhere. Call me mad... The damned thing took some time, some 1/2 hour looking like it hanged, but suddenly it finished and I have the patch and a whole bunch of backups 160+ (though many of them are repeated ~1 files. I hope all of this works in the end LOL

I'm not sure, but something tells me that you should report it to john.moonsugar about tes3cmd.  I use tes3cmd 0.37 and it works so far.

5 hours ago, godescalcus said:

Edit: I can see you're also on the MGE-XE discussions in the beth forums, where I'm only lurking... Can I ask you if you recommend MGE XE beta-26348-0-10-0b24 ? Feedback there seems somewhat ambiguous, with some reporting success and others not.

Perhaps you should start a new thread about this, because I cannot say whether MGE-XE 0.0.10 beta 24 is stable or not.

[Leonardo]

Does this mean you cannot continue working on WMSA at the moment?

7 hours ago, Sharlikran said:

After my HD crash I am unable to install pretty much anything with the old 250 GB drive I have so sorry I can't help. 

[Sharlikran]

Yep, in fact with some recent changes in real life I might not continue doing anything computer related at all. I might but just not sure at this time. I'll read forums and posts from time to time and make comments but not much other then that.

[Leonardo]

I understand.  Do you want you can do even it means you can't release another dev version for WMSA for a period of time.   I do hope that you can come back earlier, but the time will tell I guess.

[Leonardo]

@Sharlikran Have you seen this WMSA fork yet?

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/45439

I haven't and I'm gonna to test it, just to see how it works in comparison to your WMSA 87 version.

[Leonardo]

@Sharlikran I couldn't send you a PM, so here it is a self extracted archive as an exe within another archive.  As I promised here, I have created an exe from an archive in WinRAR and it should work regardless what archive program you use 7zip or WinZip.

Wrye.Mash.Standalone.v87.Beta2exe.rar

I had to create another archive since I cannot attach an exe, so just extract it then run the Wrye Mash Stand Alone 87Beta2.exe and select what folder you want to extract it.

Of course it was a couple of years last time I did this, so perhaps a thing or two has changed since then just in case things doesn't work as intended.

[Leonardo]

@Sharlikran How goes it?

Right now I'm trying to help another Morrowind player and it occured to me that the Mashed Lists.esp, essential for handling the levelled lists in Morrowind are not present in the Data Files folder in the Wrye Mash 87 Beta 2 archive.

Instead the Mashed Lists.esp is stored in the Mopy\Extras folder along with another essential esp, called the NoM MiniRes.esp, and the NoM MiniRes.esp is a sort of NoMify mod as it makes ingredients from other mods available/compatible for NoM in-game.

It would be useful for everyone if both the Mashed Lists.esp and the NoM MinRes.esp was stored in the Data Files folder with the other Wrye Mash related folders.  I think that would reduce confusing for mod users who are using Wrye Mash.

[Sharlikran]

I don't know why Wrye and Yacoby have them there. I don't believe I moved them. I don't have time but I can look to see if the docs say they are in the extras folder and I can scour the source to see if it is looking in the extras folder or not. To me this is sorta like the Wrye Flash by valda. There is a Data folder that you manually copy to the game's Data Folder. People sometimes ask about, where is this file, and it's in that folder not knowing where the files are or what they do. At least for Valda's version it probably has it in the docs.

So rather then change it from what Wrye had (I'll double check how he did it) I'd rather make sure the docs explain it. There are just too many times when I have moved things from game menus or game folders to somewhere that makes more sense. Anything that changes and you can potentially upset tons of people.

[Leonardo]

If it matters even Melchor had them there and from what I understand Wrye never changed that and those two plugins have probably been in the Extras folder since the first version of Wrye Mash was released years ago.

What I mean is to manually add those esp into the Data Files folder inside the Wrye Mash 87 Beta 2 archive on GitHub.  I can do it if you want and add the archive in a post.

[Leonardo]

I wonder if you are checking TAL these days or is it just AFK Mods.

If you are checking TAL then this thread might interest you.  I've been trying to help Darklustre about getting Wrye Mash working after the installation of Morrowind is completed on Windows 8.

[Leonardo]

I often get this kind of error for an esp or an esm in the Warning.txt file when launching Morrowind and the only thing I can do about it is to do what the middle picture shows.

One of the files that "BearArmorReplacer.ESP" is dependent on has changed since the last save.

This may result in errors. Saving again will clear this message but not necessarily fix any errors.

I wonder if it's feasible or even possible for Wrye Mash to mark a mod (as no longer being yellow) once and for all after that the mod have been re-saved in Wrye Mash, sort of ignoring the error and doing that will stop spamming the Warning.txt file.