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[RELz] LOOT - Load Order Optimisation Tool


WrinklyNinja

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3 hours ago, Anidok said:

Thanks for your quick response. There you are.

LOOTDebugLog.txt

OK, looks like a bug, the plugins don't have anything wrong with them and LOOT isn't actually ignoring them, it's just not matching ghosted and unghosted filenames up when generating that message. Filed as #1018.

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9 hours ago, WrinklyNinja said:

OK, looks like a bug, the plugins don't have anything wrong with them and LOOT isn't actually ignoring them, it's just not matching ghosted and unghosted filenames up when generating that message. Filed as #1018.

I've seen you have already corrected this issue but I don't know if I can download the corrected files and patch it myself or need to wait to the next version. Many thanks anyway.

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7 hours ago, Anidok said:

I've seen you have already corrected this issue but I don't know if I can download the corrected files and patch it myself or need to wait to the next version. Many thanks anyway.

You can use this build until the next release.

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Okay, I have a suggestion,:

Expand the drop down menu along the black box in the images below to make it easier for people to select the Group they want?

999319003_LootSugestionExample.png.65c1f8ed4767bd1ac6a713d3d88b6162.png515799615_LootSugestionExample.thumb.png.6b07cffbe2618014a25e5462dd248af7.png

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I've got about 230 plugins loaded in Skyrim Classic.  The game runs perfectly, no CTDs.  Just now, I've slightly changed my load order, removed a mod.  Ran LOOT again.  There are 2 warnings that pop up that are, with great respect, just plain wrong.  Specifically, Dawnguard and Guard Dialogue Overhaul and so-called "wild edits".  First, I've followed the guide for cleaning masters to the letter (long ago, when I first installed the game).  I used TES5Edit to clean the masters, and notably, I cleaned Dawnguard.esm twice.  Really irritated that this warning still shows up.  Second, the mod author of GDO specifically states NOT to clean his mod with TES5Edit, as any "errors" are intentional.  Again, with great respect, I'm irritated that this GDO warning showed up for the first time just tonight, and never before.  A mod that is years old, and has not been updated by a now long-absent mod author for some time.  Again, please remove these warnings, or tell me how to hide / remove them.

LOOT is a valuable and great service and I thank you for it.

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9 hours ago, ArkianSoji said:

Okay, I have a suggestion,:

Expand the drop down menu along the black box in the images below to make it easier for people to select the Group they want?

999319003_LootSugestionExample.png.65c1f8ed4767bd1ac6a713d3d88b6162.png515799615_LootSugestionExample.thumb.png.6b07cffbe2618014a25e5462dd248af7.png

I think this overlaps with #1019, I'll add your suggestion there.

2 hours ago, aristotle99 said:

I've got about 230 plugins loaded in Skyrim Classic.  The game runs perfectly, no CTDs.  Just now, I've slightly changed my load order, removed a mod.  Ran LOOT again.  There are 2 warnings that pop up that are, with great respect, just plain wrong.  Specifically, Dawnguard and Guard Dialogue Overhaul and so-called "wild edits".  First, I've followed the guide for cleaning masters to the letter (long ago, when I first installed the game).  I used TES5Edit to clean the masters, and notably, I cleaned Dawnguard.esm twice.  Really irritated that this warning still shows up.  Second, the mod author of GDO specifically states NOT to clean his mod with TES5Edit, as any "errors" are intentional.  Again, with great respect, I'm irritated that this GDO warning showed up for the first time just tonight, and never before.  A mod that is years old, and has not been updated by a now long-absent mod author for some time.  Again, please remove these warnings, or tell me how to hide / remove them.

LOOT is a valuable and great service and I thank you for it.

It looks like GDO is a point of discussion, see here. As for Dawnguard, the guide that the message links to provides details for each wild edit that needs manual cleaning, it seems unlikely that it's wrong. If you've done the manual cleaning and the warning is still shown then we could add your plugin's CRC to the condition, but I'd want to know why yours is different from the clean CRC we currently have. I think I remember something about game files differing between localisations, maybe that's it?

As for your irritation that the warnings have shown up now, just because a mod is done doesn't mean other areas of the community don't advance, and in particular TES5Edit gets better and better and detecting dirty edits. If new information comes to light about an old mod, we're not going to withhold it just because the mod isn't updated: if anything that makes a stronger case for spreading the word, because it's not like the author is going to fix any issues that have come up.

Finally, these are warnings that you're free to ignore at your own risk, and just as in general the warnings may not be relevant or very important to your particular use case, but it's still worth having them. "May contain nuts" is a tragically topical example. There's no mechanism for hiding warnings because it's safer to have you opt into ignoring them every time you see them, than turn them off, forget about them, and have them become applicable again when your situation changes.

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OK, I've followed the advice in the link and cleaned GDO by first right clicking the "hidden" marker under Skyrim.esm.  Then I selected "apply filter for cleaning" and proceeded to clean the ITMs.  I used the same process with Dawnguard.esm and this removed 18 ITMs!!  My LOOT now gives me no warnings, so I'm pleased.  Curiously, this secret trick for cleaning (selecting "hidden" under Skyrim.esm) was revealed to me for the first time here.   It does not appear in any of the detailed TES5EDit / master cleaning guides I have read.  In any event, it worked, so thank you.

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LOOT v0.13.4 released!

This fixes warnings being shown saying ghosted plugins are invalid, and improves the reliability of filesystem access when updating the masterlist. It also includes significant changes to the UI elements' implementation, though that should be almost entirely invisible to users. While LOOT's UI has been built on Google's Polymer library, that's turned out to be pretty much a dead end, and as perhaps a sign of things to come, this is the first release to include a UI element built using a combination of Polymer and the vastly more popular React.

In other news, the Discord server that Freso set up has proved popular, and the increased feedback and discussion has resulted in a bunch of improvements. Some have been shipped, others are WIP, to be included in future releases. Some will be in upcoming 0.13.x release(s), but I've also been putting together various changes for v0.14 as they require breaking API changes. As well as those improvements, v0.14.0 will change our MSVC runtime dependency from the 2015 redistributable to the 2017 redistributable, so that LOOT can take advantage of various C++ language and standard library improvements.

I've had to do a fair bit of head-scratching recently on how to deal with master plugins that depend on non-masters, as this edge case was raised on Discord. It's something that LOOT has never been able to handle, and which I've never really considered in 9+ years of load order utility development, but I think I've got all the implications for correctness scoped out and it should now be supported in a branch of libloadorder. I'll leave it to stew for a bit and review it with fresh eyes for release (and inclusion into LOOT) soon.

On the subject of libraries written in Rust, recent proposals and changes have thrown more light on the mess that is LOOT's condition parsing and evaluation code. Part of what makes it a mess is that conditions have no semantic data types, they only exist as strings and so evaluation has to happen at parsing time, and that couples what should be two independent steps. As is often the case, I did it this way because it was easiest, as the alternative is an awful lot of boilerplate with classes all over the place, since C++ has relatively limited support for algebraic data types, which would be perfect for representing conditions.

As an experiment, I've recently been rewriting the parsing and evaluation logic in Rust, in which I can represent conditions much more cleanly using enums and vectors, and so more easily separate parsing from evaluation. On the other hand, the current parsing logic makes use of cached data that it shares with other parts of LOOT, and relies on other bits of code like CRC calculation and version parsing, not to mention calling into my pseudosem C++ library to do version comparison, all of which would be more difficult to interoperate with in a Rust implementation (though probably not hugely so). I've got no idea how the experiment will pan out, it might get thrown out if the issues prove to generate too much work to solve, or the LOOT codebase might end up getting a bit more Rusty. I haven't published the code anywhere, but I'll probably stick it on GitHub in the next few days.

(I've also been playing around with the "new" official Qt for Python, which has been interesting, but don't worry, I'm not planning on rewriting LOOT's UI using it!)

Well, if nothing else, this wall of text has reminded me that I really need to write some more blog posts...

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Apologies if this is the wrong way/place to report this, or if I'm not the right person to be doing so. I didn't create any of these mods or their patches, I'm just a user.

I'm getting a "false positive" warning about a missing mod/patch in Fallout 4. LOOT is trying to be helpful by letting me know that if I'm using the Heather Casdin mod and Armorsmith Extended, I really ought to be using the Heather Casdin patch for Armorsmith Extended. What it's getting wrong is that I actually AM using a Heather Casdin patch for AE. I'm just using the one that's for VIS-G Sorting and Armorsmith Extended. In case you weren't aware, VIS-G is I guess a continuing branch (by Gambit77 et al) on Validicil's Item Sorting.

"llamaCompanionHeather.esp  
You seem to be using Armorsmith Extended, but you haven't enabled the Armorsmith Extended patch for this plugin: Heather Casdin patch"

About three spots down in my sort order I have:

llamaCompanionHeather-VIS-G - AE Patch.esp

The patch I'm using seems to be hosted on the same mod page as the one LOOT is suggesting I get. While I'm aware that LOOT is just getting this wrong, it would appear to be causing concern for others. You probably want to recognize llamaCompanionHeather-VIS-G - AE Patch.esp as ANOTHER suitable patch for AE and Heather Casdin. Of course you could go one better and have it pick the right patch depending on their sorting mod.

Thanks for all your support and hard work on LOOT. It's awesome tool that keeps my saves sane!

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19 hours ago, Poobah Gorg said:

Apologies if this is the wrong way/place to report this, or if I'm not the right person to be doing so. I didn't create any of these mods or their patches, I'm just a user.

I'm getting a "false positive" warning about a missing mod/patch in Fallout 4. LOOT is trying to be helpful by letting me know that if I'm using the Heather Casdin mod and Armorsmith Extended, I really ought to be using the Heather Casdin patch for Armorsmith Extended. What it's getting wrong is that I actually AM using a Heather Casdin patch for AE. I'm just using the one that's for VIS-G Sorting and Armorsmith Extended. In case you weren't aware, VIS-G is I guess a continuing branch (by Gambit77 et al) on Validicil's Item Sorting.

"llamaCompanionHeather.esp  
You seem to be using Armorsmith Extended, but you haven't enabled the Armorsmith Extended patch for this plugin: Heather Casdin patch"

About three spots down in my sort order I have:

llamaCompanionHeather-VIS-G - AE Patch.esp

The patch I'm using seems to be hosted on the same mod page as the one LOOT is suggesting I get. While I'm aware that LOOT is just getting this wrong, it would appear to be causing concern for others. You probably want to recognize llamaCompanionHeather-VIS-G - AE Patch.esp as ANOTHER suitable patch for AE and Heather Casdin. Of course you could go one better and have it pick the right patch depending on their sorting mod.

Thanks for all your support and hard work on LOOT. It's awesome tool that keeps my saves sane!

Thanks, that should be fixed now.

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Guys I have taken myself off the Permissions list of all LOOT Nexus pages - I am unlikely to be very active in the TES community in the future, and we have seen before when someones account can be taken over by someone else on Nexus who is no longer active ( I dont know if this is still possible these days, but just in case), and then much Chaos can be executed on your own account without knowledge .. malware etc

@pStyl3 I noticed while doing the above, that the old LOOT page on Fallout 4 Nexus is still there, just hidden, giving a redirect note to the SSE LOOT page.

I removed myself, but it occurs to me that page may well get forgotten about, and if any other people listed with permissions to edit become compromised by someone taking over an old account in future, that may be a route in to upload whatever. If its never to be used again, it might be worth pruning that old page of unnecessary permissions.

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You will be missed for sure. Don't hesitate to jump back in, if you ever feel that way. :)

I've deleted LOOT's Nexus presence over at FO4 Nexus, it wouldn't have come back anyway.

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12 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Guys I have taken myself off the Permissions list of all LOOT Nexus pages - I am unlikely to be very active in the TES community in the future, and we have seen before when someones account can be taken over by someone else on Nexus who is no longer active ( I dont know if this is still possible these days, but just in case), and then much Chaos can be executed on your own account without knowledge .. malware etc

@pStyl3 I noticed while doing the above, that the old LOOT page on Fallout 4 Nexus is still there, just hidden, giving a redirect note to the SSE LOOT page.

I removed myself, but it occurs to me that page may well get forgotten about, and if any other people listed with permissions to edit become compromised by someone taking over an old account in future, that may be a route in to upload whatever. If its never to be used again, it might be worth pruning that old page of unnecessary permissions.

Thank you for all you've done over the years, I'll miss you being around!

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Heya. I ran LOOT a couple days ago and noticed that i'm now getting a cyclical error between Cutting Room Floor, Open Cities Skyrim, and Immersive Wenches.

Looking through,CRF now has rules about always loading after Immersive Wenches. Before I go any further, i've gotta say that this is really only a problem of my own design... so to speak.

Using SSEEdit, I've integrated Open Cities Skyrim changes into Immersive Wenches and Open Cities is now a master for that file. Because of this, Open Cities and Immersive Wenches has to load after Cutting Room Floor.

The short version of all this is... is there any way that I can remove the master list rule about immersive wenches.esp from Cutting Room Floor?

 

Edit: I've got myself a temporary solution until I redo my mod setup. edit the master list and remove the entry about loading after immersive wenches, disable network adapter and then open loot and sort.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/13/2018 at 1:37 AM, Gr3yStar said:

Heya. I ran LOOT a couple days ago and noticed that i'm now getting a cyclical error between Cutting Room Floor, Open Cities Skyrim, and Immersive Wenches.

Looking through,CRF now has rules about always loading after Immersive Wenches. Before I go any further, i've gotta say that this is really only a problem of my own design... so to speak.

Using SSEEdit, I've integrated Open Cities Skyrim changes into Immersive Wenches and Open Cities is now a master for that file. Because of this, Open Cities and Immersive Wenches has to load after Cutting Room Floor.

The short version of all this is... is there any way that I can remove the master list rule about immersive wenches.esp from Cutting Room Floor?

 

Edit: I've got myself a temporary solution until I redo my mod setup. edit the master list and remove the entry about loading after immersive wenches, disable network adapter and then open loot and sort.

Sorry for the delay, if this is still a problem, @cptmcsplody has been making changes, so should be able to fix it.

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On 10/13/2018 at 1:37 AM, Gr3yStar said:

Heya. I ran LOOT a couple days ago and noticed that i'm now getting a cyclical error between Cutting Room Floor, Open Cities Skyrim, and Immersive Wenches.

Looking through,CRF now has rules about always loading after Immersive Wenches. Before I go any further, i've gotta say that this is really only a problem of my own design... so to speak.

Using SSEEdit, I've integrated Open Cities Skyrim changes into Immersive Wenches and Open Cities is now a master for that file. Because of this, Open Cities and Immersive Wenches has to load after Cutting Room Floor.

The short version of all this is... is there any way that I can remove the master list rule about immersive wenches.esp from Cutting Room Floor?

 

Edit: I've got myself a temporary solution until I redo my mod setup. edit the master list and remove the entry about loading after immersive wenches, disable network adapter and then open loot and sort.

 

11 hours ago, WrinklyNinja said:

Sorry for the delay, if this is still a problem, @cptmcsplody has been making changes, so should be able to fix it.

Immersive Wenches reverts a few location changes in Cutting Room Floor, and loading CRF after IW showed no conflicts.

But I can move Immersive Wenches to an earlier group to achieve the same result and then remove the load after rule from Cutting Room Floor.

@Gr3yStar You'll need to update Immersive Wenches.esp group once I make the change.

JPcjpI1.png

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  • 3 weeks later...
3 hours ago, kruppa said:

Well, i still have a problem with Loot and Fallout 4.
The problem is simple: Loot Closes when sorting mods.

I think is a permission problem, but i cant fix :(


LOOTDebugLog.txt

Can you try running LOOT with debug logging enabled? See https://loot.github.io/docs/help/How-To-Report-Issues-Helpfully.html for instructions.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/15/2018 at 12:48 PM, WrinklyNinja said:

Can you try running LOOT with debug logging enabled? See https://loot.github.io/docs/help/How-To-Report-Issues-Helpfully.html for instructions.

All:

Using LOOT Version 0.13.5 (build 0af19d69), I run into an issue I cannot resolve modding SSE.  LOOT reports it cannot order the mod list due to "The group "Realistic Water" does not exist".  I cannot find the mod that shows this group, so have no idea how to resolve.  This is occurring even when running LOOT against only the base ESMs, and no other mods.  Help offered is gratefully received.  Debug log attached.  Thank you.

LOOTDebugLog.txt

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5 hours ago, bubbawood said:

All:

Using LOOT Version 0.13.5 (build 0af19d69), I run into an issue I cannot resolve modding SSE.  LOOT reports it cannot order the mod list due to "The group "Realistic Water" does not exist".  I cannot find the mod that shows this group, so have no idea how to resolve.  This is occurring even when running LOOT against only the base ESMs, and no other mods.  Help offered is gratefully received.  Debug log attached.  Thank you.

LOOTDebugLog.txt

This is probably due to @cptmcsplody removing some groups from the masterlist. It looks like you've got the "Merge Patches" group loading after "Realistic Water", if you open the groups editor then click its apply button, that should remove the reference to "Realistic Water".

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4 hours ago, WrinklyNinja said:

This is probably due to @cptmcsplody removing some groups from the masterlist. It looks like you've got the "Merge Patches" group loading after "Realistic Water", if you open the groups editor then click its apply button, that should remove the reference to "Realistic Water".

Thank you for the direction.  Worked exactly as indicated.  

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Just installed 13.6.  (Loot told me to!)  Now I get "

Error

Failed to sort plugins. Details: see general messages for details.

" 

This may very well be the first time I upgraded using MO2, but I have never seen this before and have no clue where general messages are....    (Or, what I did wrong!)

(I did the upgrade OUTSIDE of MO2...)

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3 hours ago, croc123 said:

Just installed 13.6.  (Loot told me to!)  Now I get "

Error

Failed to sort plugins. Details: see general messages for details.

" 

This may very well be the first time I upgraded using MO2, but I have never seen this before and have no clue where general messages are....    (Or, what I did wrong!)

(I did the upgrade OUTSIDE of MO2...)

The general messages are those displayed in the General Information card above the list of plugin cards in LOOT's main panel.

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