Wrye Bash - All Games

[Sharlikran]

@Langeston It's a good and bad news kind of situation.

The good news is that the current maintainer Utumno wants to add FO3 and FNV support and it's being reviewed and finalized. The bad news is that once it's added it will only patch, I don't remember, 5 to 8 things. Valda's version patches over ten things.

The reason is that Valda used a much older version 295 that didn't have multi game support. So the patchers were converted to work with FO3/FNV instead of oblivion.

307 on the other hand has not had all the patchers updated for multi game support. I have enabled ones that I knew I could update with my limited python knowledge but even then 307's patchers need additional work.

So in the end, until someone with more Python knowledge can volunteer and work with me explicitly on the patchers FO3/FNV support will be there for installing mods, load order and save game management, but patchers in 307 will be limited.

The only way to have full FO3/FNV support is to use Valda's version which I maintain to a limited degree. For example I will release a new FNV version in a week or less because I have some updates for NVSE-JIP CTDA functions. I will release an update to CTDA for FO3 after I get some help from one my xEdit colleagues.

 

[Langeston]

@Sharlikran Thank you for the reply.

That is indeed unfortunate. I got about as far as installing 50 packages with the Valda version before cussing a whole lot and uninstalling/reinstalling FNV. I decided to download MO2 and give it a try, but I can already tell I'm not gonna like it right away, if at all. Way too many mouse clicks to accomplish the same tasks. (I wish I could get a hold of some of the Kool-Aid that the MO2 apologists are drinking, 'cause right now I don't see what all the big fuss is.)

A couple random questions, if you don't mind:

1. For some reason, Loot wouldn't open properly if I had Valda WB open, is that normal?

2. I usually install WB on a separate drive from the game I am modding, and use BASH.ini to redirect. This version seemed to be required to be installed inside my game folder, is that correct?

3. Is "Monitor External Installation" missing from Valda WB? I couldn't find it and that was always something that saved my ass with the really sloppily configured archives.

4. Do you have a recommendation for what mod manager I should use? (i.e. is Fallout Mod Manager an option, or is Valda WB/MO2 really my only two choices?) This is my first day modding any Fallout other than 4, and kind of just assumed it would go similarly to all the other Bethesda games I've played, unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

I didn't realize just how much you guys have improved WB until today, when I tried to use the older version. I just want to say thank you and I really appreciate all the work you have done.

Best regards,

Langeston

[Sharlikran]

1) There is no LOOT support for Valda's Wrye Flash, it uses BOSS. Now you would think you need to download BOSS for Wrye Flash, not true. What Wrye Bash does is generate a special taglist. That list is made from all the Bash Tags in the BOSS masterlist. When BOSS was maintained if there were new tags, they would be pulled from BOSS.  That's not needed because the taglist provided has all the tags BOSS had.  The BOSS lists are locked and can't be updated anymore. Only 307 will have LOOT support.  You can just disable Lock Times in Valda's Wrye Flash and sort with LOOT.

2) Shouldn't but the INI comments may be cryptic. I have had Valda's working from a completely different folder. Specifically the GIT folder for the Repo and running it with Pycharm.

3) Not sure I would have to look. I just got a small 1tb drive (my 2tb crashed in Dec 2017) so I could work on a few things and I can't look yet. The only way it wouldn't be there is if it was not originally present in 295. You could look at the 307 change logs for it until I have everything installed. Another thing is if Valda's Wrye flash is reading 307's data files some things will just not work.  So I'd clean all that up and then relaunch WF.  (No need to uninstall Games or WF) For example delete the .dat files in the users folder for FO3/FNV. If you see two folders under users like FalloutNV and Fallout New Vegas, then remove the data files in both until you know which Valda's old version uses. Then go to the Mods and Installers folders and delete those .dat files too.  See note at end of post.

4) Valda's Wrye Flash for F03/FNV and 307 for Skyrim, Skyrim SE, Fallout 4, Oblivion. I don't use any of the other mod managers such as MO/MO2/NMM/Vortex because they use virtual folders and links to files. I like the files in the data folder. Because of this it takes a long time to install files.

Any other questions about Valda's versions please ask on the Nexus and I'll respond there since it's totally different code.

[Sladen2019]

For some time. Wrye Bash has identified some of my mods as "Masters have been re-ordered". The mods have never seemed to cause me any trouble. My understanding is that they are identified as such, because the mod authors had the masters sorted incorrectly. Its rare that my Skyrim game crashes anymore, but I wonder if I fixed the mods myself, to have the corrrect master order, if I might get even less crashes. Is there a way for Wrye to fix it automatically or a guide somewhere online on how to fox master order for mods ? Heres a handful of the mods that have the incorrect master order.

BS_DLC_patch.esp (Beyond Skyrim Bruma patch for Hearthfires)

Blackthornmanor.esp

Vivid Weathers.esp

Valdmire.esp

RDO - EFF v4.0.2 Patch.esp

[Sharlikran]

>> Is there a way for Wrye to fix it automatically

No you do that with xEdit Sort Masters.

>> or a guide somewhere

Probably not. If there is anything about it at all it would be in the Fallout NV Training Manual for FNVEdit, which still applies to all versions.

Why you do it from Elminster himself: "If a plugin has two masters that are siblings (one doesn’t have the other as a master, so they can load in either order) and they are overriding the same record from an earlier master (e.g. both are overriding a record from the main game master file), then loading them in a different order will result in a different version of the overridden record being the “winner”. But the plugin might depend on the winner being the one indicated by the order in which it references the masters."

[godescalcus]

Which version of Wrye Bash should I revert to if I want BOSS bash tags suggestions to be added automatically?

please disregard.

[alt3rn1ty]

@Sharlikran - The Tweak Settings patchers (Crime alarm distance, Arrow Speed etc), were they all confirmed as being valid for Skyrim SE, or were they just copied across from Skyrim LE and assumed to work?

I ask because I think some are not working (at least Arrow Speed), and I cant find the GMSTs in xEdit for a few of them ..

But the weird thing about that is iTrainingNumAllowedPerLevel (Max Training) does actually work, yet its among the ones that cant be found in the games own plugins - See screenshot below - Which makes determining which ones are valid or not a bit awkward.

I am trying to make a series of mods which include these tweaks, for people who maybe use Vortex / MO along with Mator Smash, but dont see a need for also having Wrye Bash installed. I know they will use up a pile of slots where they could instead just use a Bashed Patch, and they will miss out on Merging, but I think there will still be people who could do with these being separate. There will also be ones which Wrye Bash does not currently have .. Soo keep an eye on progress, and feel free to add the same back to WB.

 

[Sharlikran]

On 6/29/2018 at 5:42 PM, godescalcus said:

Which version of Wrye Bash should I revert to if I want BOSS bash tags suggestions to be added automatically?

please disregard.

You would have to revert way back so far you would be working with an unstable and buggy version. Look in the Change log it's about version 304.3 Beta. However, please pass along that nobody ever has to revert if people would help port the tags to LOOT. I tried to keep it all current at one point but I don't always have time to do so. LOOT volunteers are needed. What that does is if you have WB 307.whatever installed, and LOOT and BOSS all the current tags from the LOOT masterlist are imported and you can sort with BOSS.

To add BOSS support back basically you have to find a volunteer that knows C++ and Python to do so and submit all the finalized code.  I don't see that happening since it takes programing knowledge. However, anyone can understand the LOOT masterlist format very easily and port the tags from BOSS.

[Sharlikran]

@alt3rn1ty I am not sure where all that came from. Most was probably added back when there were volunteers posting on the forum and Arthmoor made the commits to oblivionworks. Can't be sure about that but that's my best guess. What I would like to see is a way to generate a new list for GMST. I have asked before but if anyone knew I didn't get an answer. The old Wrye team probably had a script to pull the info from the ESM files. It would be nice to do that for Skyrim, Skyrim SE and Fallout 4.

@hlp Is there a way to data mine the EXE and official ESM files to make a list of valid GMSTs?

[alt3rn1ty]

6 hours ago, Sharlikran said:

@alt3rn1ty

@hlp Is there a way to data mine the EXE ~

Yeah thats what I was thinking, if a GMST can not be found in the ESM, and yet it works, then the logical source must be in the EXE

Any lists will need to be filtered though, I notice in Skyrim SE ESM there are heaps of GMST which can only be for Fallout 4 (VATS and GUNS and a fair few more which just seem like copy pasta Bethesda have not weeded out from the previous game they used the same engine for). I should imagine Fallout 4 would also have a certain amount of copy pasta from Skyrim LE too.

Oh well for now I am just going to have to test in game individual settings and prove they are working or not.

One for now I know is not working = Arrow Speed.

Edit : And Strength Encumbrance Multiplier doesn't seem to work either.

But at least the research has been useful, I found a few in the game which are nice to have that Wrye Bash does not have .. When the mod becomes unhidden on Nexus again those will be included : "Minimum Jump Height" and "Social Conversation Distance". That second one has two GMSTs, one for Internal and another for external

[hlp]

I think VATS is used in Skyrim for the kill cam.

And yes the data could probably be extracted from the EXE with an algorithm similar to the one I used for finding the Default objects. I just never dig into that yet. The easiest starting point would be to know of one that isn't in the ESMs

 

 

[Sharlikran]

2 hours ago, hlp said:

I think VATS is used in Skyrim for the kill cam.

And yes the data could probably be extracted from the EXE with an algorithm similar to the one I used for finding the Default objects. I just never dig into that yet. The easiest starting point would be to know of one that isn't in the ESMs

 

 

If there is a way to get that from the exe for the game, esm, and the ck that would be great. To be honest though, I'd rather see the unfiltered results and then manually filter things. As you say the vats might be the kill cam, which I thought Bethesda might leave it in like that but didn't have a clue to what it might be used for.

[Sharlikran]

On 7/1/2018 at 2:05 AM, alt3rn1ty said:

Yeah that's what I was thinking, if a GMST can not be found in the ESM, and yet it works, then the logical source must be in the EXE

 

There could be more to it. I have to find all the routines for the PKL files. It's like you are dumping what's in memory at runtime and then loading it again at a later time. In addition to that this is from Valda's version for FNV. I have no idea if all that is the same for this official version.

[Sharlikran]

@Langeston I still prefer to discus Valda's version on the nexus but since I have no way to "@" you from there, and I didn't see you post on the nexus yet... I looked at the change logs and the Monitoring of external installations was added in 301 which is newer then what Valda based his versions off of. I am skeptical I can just add it with my limited knowledge of Python. I'll look into it and see if Valda has time to help.

As for running it from another location, I am doing so from the GitHub repo folder using an INI file so it is possible. I removed all the comments as these are the lines I'm using. I have not fully tested the Steam or BOSS stuff yet.

Spoiler

For Valda's:

[General]
sFalloutNVMods=G:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas Mods
sInstallersData=G:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas Mods\Bash Installers\Bash
sBashModData=G:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas Mods\Bash Mod Data
sFalloutNVPath=G:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas
bSteamInstall=True

[Tool Options]
sSteam=G:\Steam
;sboss=G:\BOSS\BOSS.EXE

You would also want to look at the User directory arguments sections and experiment with sUserPath, sLocalAppDataPath, but don't change user path settings for 307. You might have to copy Fallout INI files to the locations manually as well. I have never tried to alter user path settings.

For 307:

[General]
sOblivionMods=G:\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition Mods
sBashModData=G:\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition Mods\Bash Mod Data
sInstallersData=G:\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition Mods\Bash Installers\Bash
sOblivionPath=G:\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition
bSteamInstall=True

[Settings]
bEnableSplashScreen=False
sSkippedBashInstallersDirs=cache|categories|downloads|ModProfiles|ReadMe

 

Until full support (and I mean all the patchers not what is currently available for 307) then it would be easier. However, for now I see no easy way to manage things. I guess you could have the standalone for Valda's version with an INI file pointing to separate folders from 307, and the 307 standalone with an INI file pointing to different folders then Valda's versions.  You would then build your Bash Patch with Valda's version. It would mean keeping the data files separate but with diligence and effort you should be able to get it to work.

[Utumno]

307.201807040057

Working loot 3.1.1 and the changes in CDTA from @Sharlikran (thanks !)

And that's pretty much beta3 - roll up your sleeves - I need people uploading the files in nexus (also for fallout3/nv) and adding nice descriptions

[Sharlikran]

Does 307.201807040057 that you propose as Beta 3 have both the changes to utumno-wip and 150-fo3-fnv-support?

[Utumno]

6 minutes ago, Sharlikran said:

Does 307.201807040057 that you propose as Beta 3 have both the changes to utumno-wip and 150-fo3-fnv-support?

Yep apart from some stuff on utumno-wip that's experimental and not used. Basically, 150-fo3-fnv-support is on top of utumno-wip

[Sharlikran]

May I please manage the FO3 and FNV pages? I'd like to do the same as Wrye told me in regards to Wrye Mash how he prefers I have my own page.  I would like to have separate pages for FO3/FNV calling them Wrye Bash for Fallout 3 and Wrye Bash for Fallout NV.   

Valda did all the work on his versions and they still patch more then 307 does. I also still maintain them with minor updates to things like records and CTDA. Valda's versions are the fully functional versions and I'd like to make it clear to users about the differences.  I am going to get more FO3/FNV patchers working now that FO3/FNV is more integrated into the main version. Since I not only decode all the records and do all the patcher experimenting it would be easier for me to fix record definitions and bugs for my changes and then have the person reporting the bug test it. That way the pull request is cleaner and tested.

[Utumno]

3 minutes ago, Sharlikran said:

May I please manage the FO3 and FNV pages? I would like to have separate pages for FO3/FNV calling them Wrye Bash for Fallout 3 and Wrye Bash for Fallout NV.  I'd like to do the same as Wrye told me though, that if I want to have my own Wrye Mash once I make it more updated he prefers I have my own page. 

 Valda did all the work on his versions and they still patch more then 307 does. Valda's versions are the fully functional versions and I'd like to make it clear to users about the differences.  I am going to get more FO3/FNV patchers working now that FO3/FNV is more integrated into the main version. Since I not only decode all the records and do all the patcher experimenting it would be easier for me to fix record definitions and bugs for my changes and then have the person reporting the bug test it. That way the pull request is cleaner and tested.

I was thinking is fair you do as you keep maintaining that code and you are familiar with the differences between ours and Valda's version. However, it's @alt3rn1ty you should ask as he is the de facto nexus maintainer.

I have already two pages up on respective nexus

[Sharlikran]

@Langeston When you have time please visit the FNV nexus I think I may have been able to add Monitor External Installation.

[Sharlikran]

 

from __future__ import with_statement  # Python 2.5 with statement

May I ask, this documentation seems to imply that this is redundant in 2.6 or higher. Do I understand that correctly?

[alt3rn1ty]

10 hours ago, Utumno said:

307.201807040057

Working loot 3.1.1 and the changes in CDTA from @Sharlikran (thanks !)

And that's pretty much beta3 - roll up your sleeves - I need people uploading the files in nexus (also for fallout3/nv) and adding nice descriptions

Grabbed and testing : What has been fixed since last upload so that we are not reiterating previously reported bugs ?

Happy to upload whenever you want the release going up (we still have the link in the sticky posts for Beta 3). That will be a good time to chop down some of the sticky posts aswell.

Sharlikran would be better suited to managing the Fallout version of Wrye Bash pages than me, he's a lot more knowledgeable and technically has a much better grasp of things than I do on a deeper level. In fact probably better overall.

 

If you are happy Utumno, I'll add Sharlikran to all the pages permissions (that will also give him a private link notification to the ones which are hidden at the moment)

[Utumno]

5 hours ago, Sharlikran said:

 

from __future__ import with_statement  # Python 2.5 with statement

May I ask, this documentation seems to imply that this is redundant in 2.6 or higher. Do I understand that correctly?

Yep!

28 minutes ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Grabbed and testing : What has been fixed since last upload so that we are not reiterating previously reported bugs ?

Happy to upload whenever you want the release going up (we still have the link in the sticky posts for Beta 3). That will be a good time to chop down some of the sticky posts aswell.

Sharlikran would be better suited to managing the Fallout version of Wrye Bash pages than me, he's a lot more knowledgeable and technically has a much better grasp of things than I do on a deeper level. In fact probably better overall.

 

If you are happy Utumno, I'll add Sharlikran to all the pages permissions (that will also give him a private link notification to the ones which are hidden at the moment)

Thanks, @alt3rn1ty - sure go ahead!

Re fixes: this is more or less equivalent to the previous build

[alt3rn1ty]

Done, @Sharlikran you have admin rights to manage all Wrye Bash Pages, I am currently doing the public ones for Oblivion, Skyrim LE, Fallout 4 and Skyrim SE (Starting with Skyrim SE at this moment in time). Will leave the other two to cut your teeth on. I know you have put mod pages up before but there are a lot of changes to the site recently so probably best to get to grips with the still hidden pages first. Dont forget to check the option to turn off "Download with Manager" when uploading the Beta3 files - People have tried installing Wrye Bash with Nexus Mod Manager before now, even with the button switched off

For versioning these betas, nexus is picky, I am using 307.Beta3 (tried 307 Beta3 and it would not accept because of the space between 307 and beta). And thats not going to have any weird effects on Nexus Mod Manager or the new Vortex because we disable the ability for those mod managers to grab these files.

Edit : Also tip - Edit the current files to move them into Old Files, this way when you upload the new files / mini description etc the CDN cached files do not get chance to be confused with the now older files .. Nexus still does that occasionally, its a PITA. After the New files are uploaded and virus checked successfully, then you can delete the old files because the CDN by then has distinguished the new from the old.

Edit2 : We also keep around an optional file for Oblivion, v291 for the few Wrye Morph / Bash Mon users still out there.

 

Edit3 : Thats Oblivion, Skyrim LE, Fallout 4 and Skyrim SE page files all done and updated to 307 Beta3

Fallout 3 and New Vegas are still to do - left for Sharlikran :thumbsup:

 

Edit4 : I think updating all Wrye Bash Nexus pages simultaneously may just have slowed down Nexus a bit, by the amount of attention those pages got from all the people tracking them .. oops! 

@Arthmoor Something strange going on with emotes, there are three in this post but only the rolls eyes one comes up.

[Supierce]

Wow! Congratulations on getting the beta out the door!!

I've been playing around with wxpython 3 and recommend moving to it soon - it's a definite improvement.