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Utumno

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Kind of a stupid question, I accidentally clicked "don't ask again" or whatever option is there when drag'n'dropping an archive into the installers window and selecting "move", now all my installers are moved by default and I can't figure out a way to change this behaviour back to normal (always ask).

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17 hours ago, godescalcus said:

Kind of a stupid question, I accidentally clicked "don't ask again" or whatever option is there when drag'n'dropping an archive into the installers window and selecting "move", now all my installers are moved by default and I can't figure out a way to change this behaviour back to normal (always ask).

That's a good question. I know there's a way to do it but I can't remember it.

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OK so I wanted to share some stuff I've been working on. I've already talked to @Utumno about it and he suggested I pack up a test build to let you guys play with it.

I call it my Frankenstein build which is a testbed for a few little improvements and overhauls for WB 308. Here's what I've got..

Revamped Install tab right-click menu

So I really never cared for the installer tab package right-click menu in Bash. From a UX designer's standpoint it's a mess. Unrelated functions are side by side, and you can easily accidentally click to delete a file, or hide it, or install last. Ugh.  When I was doing some research on things, I found the BAIT Project which had a nice revamped right click menu. It gave me some ideas.

Here's what I came up with:

Spoiler

File Menu:

frank-filemenus.JPG.81abb3da490309e54bee8ba4111bb598.JPG

Wizard Installer fly-out:

frank-wizard.JPG.32c9f879ce0a6f7a6d0f763cf4e07a44.JPG

Package Menu:

frank-package.JPG.99a1d57f7dd96366115a1bcec1e21b97.JPG

I also changed the text labels a bit to make things self-explanatory. A lot of new users don't know what "Install missing" means, but "install missing files" is one additional word that makes it all clear. Same thing with "Conversions".

Bashed Patcher Tweaks:

Another thing I've been wanting to get back up to par are the wide array of tweaks available in Wrye Bash.  When in Oblivion mode, you had multiple panels of tweaks, but in Skyrim and later, the options were limited. So I started gathering up a list of things to tweak and spent a few hours in the CK making sure some of the old tweaks could be ported somehow. I also gathered up a list of mods that change game settings (including SkyTweak) and some of the older recommended mods from the S.T.E.P project (cosmetic things like changing the moons size) and added them in to save plugin slots. Some of these are "fix" mods like the dodge fix mods that are popular.

I'm supposed to be doing real work right now so I can't describe all of the tweaks, but I'll show you guys a screenshot to give you an idea.

Spoiler

Skyrim/SkyrimSE:

frank-tweaks.thumb.JPG.2b4e5dbf299e983cb998fd460443d0ca.JPG

Fallout 4 early testing tweaks:

FO4-tweaks.JPG.f19678d0797c0f089992140de8ddc470.JPG

Right now these are for Skyrim/Skyrim SE, but I have a bunch of tweaks for Fallout 4 ready as soon as we can turn on GMST tweaks in the Patcher. I tried to turn them on and got a bugcheck (KeyError: 'GMST')  that I couldn't fix, so that may have to wait until after the game handling changes and the data gathering is completed.

I'll try to get something put together shortly to let you guys play with it and give feedback.

 

 

 

 

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Like the Right click menu

Changing "Wizard" to "Manual Wizard" .. I think would work better as "Run Wizard", its an action you wish to do which also ties in with its tooltip text "Run the Install Wizard" .. Manual Wizard sounds a bit ambiguous imho

Wizard Installer .. Run Wizard

Wizard Installer .. Auto Wizard

Wizard Installer .. View Wizard

And "Auto Wizard" needs its Tooltip explanation changing, currently it reads the same as for Wizard = "Run the Install Wizard", Auto Wizards tooltip should read "Run the Install Wizard auto accepting default selections"

Wizard Installer .. Run Wizard - Tooltip text "Run the Install Wizard"

Wizard Installer .. Auto Wizard - Tooltip Text "Run the Install Wizard auto accepting default selections"

Wizard Installer .. View Wizard - Tooltip text "Edit the wizard.txt associated with this project"

The rest of the right click menus look good and more compact, without being too stacked so as to become annoying navigating menus. You have done a good job on it, and I agree the other wording changes you did are also good.

Although maybe the "Open ReadMe" command ought to be in the Package sub menu ?, because you are opening a Readme from within the Package structure, whereas in your example you have moved it to the File sub menu, bundled out of place with actions that are performed on the file as a whole, not within the package.

 

Really looking forward to more GMST tweaks :) - But usually the Brackets are populated with the Default value in double brackets [[10]], and only when you right click and change them to a higher or lower value do they go to single bracket [5] - Plus a Value is what we have all come to expect with these, using the default value as judgement as to what the selectable values in context would achieve, I dont think we ought to start changing those to labels like "STEP recommended". Say Moon size [[10]] describes the default game setting. Moon size [8] says to me I will be making it 2 tenths smaller than game default, or 80% of its normal game size. "STEP recommended" doesnt say anything to a non step goer, nor does it give any possible credibility that whatever that setting may be is any better than the default setting or worse because its a subjective description according to a few people at step who convey the best technical judgement among that forums peers. In your screenshot you use double brackets, so [[Step recommended]] = Default game size ?, and if changed to a different value, how much are we changing it away from the default value if we do not have the default value as a basis for comparison.

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2 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Like the Right click menu

Changing "Wizard" to "Manual Wizard" .. I think would work better as "Run Wizard", its an action you wish to do which also ties in with its tooltip text "Run the Install Wizard" .. Manual Wizard sounds a bit ambiguous imho

Thank you Brother @alt3rn1ty this is exactly the feedback I wanted :beer:. I've got PyCharm open while I'm writing this. 

I agree 'Run Wizard" will be better. Changed.

2 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

And "Auto Wizard" needs its Tooltip explanation changing, currently it reads the same as for Wizard = "Run the Install Wizard", Auto Wizards tooltip should read "Run the Install Wizard auto accepting default selections"

Wizard Installer .. Run Wizard - Tooltip text "Run the Install Wizard"

Wizard Installer .. Auto Wizard - Tooltip Text "Run the Install Wizard auto accepting default selections"

Wizard Installer .. View Wizard - Tooltip text "Edit the wizard.txt associated with this project"

Renamed "Manual Wizard" to "Run Wizard".  Since the wizard handler uses an 'if' statement to determine whether or not to automatically run the wizard (I could take it apart but I'm afraid I'd break something and I don't want to change app logic) , it only has one tooltip line, so I changed it to: "Run the install Wizard. Auto-Wizard auto-accepts all default selections."

There may be a better one-line description to put there if you (or anyone reading) have any ideas.

2 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Although maybe the "Open ReadMe" command ought to be in the Package sub menu ?, because you are opening a Readme from within the Package structure, whereas in your example you have moved it to the File sub menu, bundled out of place with actions that are performed on the file as a whole, not within the package.

I wasn't sure about what to do with that one either. I agree with your logic so I've placed it under 'Package'.

I also did a thing: I took out "Install Last". Maybe it was bad, but I absolutely abhor "Install Last" with the heat of thousand suns.  I can't tell how many times I've accidentally clicked it and had to chase down and re-order a mod because of that GD thing.  :swear:

If enough people want it back I'll have to figure out a place to put it so it can't be accidentally clicked..

But I digress, on to the part I need your help grokking..

2 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Really looking forward to more GMST tweaks :) - But usually the Brackets are populated with the Default value in double brackets [[10]], and only when you right click and change them to a higher or lower value do they go to single bracket [5] 

Oh yeah I certainly need to look back over those descriptions again since I was focused on making sure my Python syntax was right.

I'm open for suggestions on better descriptions.. to give you an idea of the silly stuff I have in there now,  in the swimming "Breath Control" the  maximum option is "@Arthmoor is my daddy". :TrollLizard:  (I'd love to leave it but I don't think the general population would get it).

Back to the brackets and how they are displayed, here's the comment in the code that explains how to make the tweaks so maybe I can work within these bounds:

Spoiler

"""
GMST record tweaks used by patcher.patchers.multitweak_settings.GmstTweaker

Each entry is a tuple in the following format:
  (DisplayText, MouseoverText, GMST EditorID, Option1, Option2, ..., OptionN)
  - EditorID can be a plain string, or a tuple of multiple Editor IDs. If
  it's a tuple, then Value (below) must be a tuple of equal length, providing
  values for each GMST
Each Option is a tuple:
  (DisplayText, Value)
  - If you enclose DisplayText in brackets like this: _(u'[Default]'),
  then the patcher will treat this option as the default value.
  - If you use _(u'Custom') as the entry, the patcher will bring up a number
  input dialog

To make a tweak Enabled by Default, enclose the tuple entry for the tweak in
a list, and make a dictionary as the second list item with {'defaultEnabled
':True}. See the UOP Vampire facefix for an example of this (in the GMST
Tweak

So it looks like you bracket the default, and Bash will add a set of brackets to denote the selection you have chosen.  Do you think I should approach this as "Default" means the game default (which would be what it would be if the GMST wasn't in the Bashed Patch if I recall correctly)  or meaning "this is the default option to make this tweak have any visible effect in-game" ?  It's not a big deal to fix it up so I'm open for suggestions.

3 hours ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Really looking forward to more GMST tweaks :) - But usually the Brackets are populated with the Default value in double brackets [[10]], and only when you right click and change them to a higher or lower value do they go to single bracket [5] - Plus a Value is what we have all come to expect with these, using the default value as judgement as to what the selectable values in context would achieve, I dont think we ought to start changing those to labels like "STEP recommended". Say Moon size [[10]] describes the default game setting. Moon size [8] says to me I will be making it 2 tenths smaller than game default, or 80% of its normal game size. "STEP recommended" doesnt say anything to a non step goer, nor does it give any possible credibility that whatever that setting may be is any better than the default setting or worse because its a subjective description according to a few people at step who convey the best technical judgement among that forums peers. In your screenshot you use double brackets, so [[Step recommended]] = Default game size ?, and if changed to a different value, how much are we changing it away from the default value if we do not have the default value as a basis for comparison.

That makes sense, and I see how it obfuscates things a bit. I forgot that not everyone will know what the heck I'm talking about. 

Where the STEP thing came from: when I was doing my research I looked at a lot of mod guides+lists (since I don't use them) to see what the common annoyances were, and found a few "fix" and "tweak" type mods that were on several mod lists. I'm sure there are a dozen more out there if I looked harder, so if you can think of any that would be nice to put in and are GMST tweaks I'll give it a shot.

I'm still working on the tweaks a bit to polish them up so this is perfect feedback. I'm about to go give this all another round of cleaning and polish, so I'll hopefully have something everyone can play with soon.

 

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I dont know what the internal behaviour of the code is reference the Brackets for default, but the default setting should be what the game has as default for that GMST - I think the main reason for that logically is so that the same value can be reverted to if the user does not like the in game implications of the changed setting (for example extreme changes to time passing settings can have weird / complex and undesirable effects depending on which game it is applied to)

Each GMST needs prior investigation into what is actually set by default for a vanilla game, that then becomes the [[value]]

From a users POV, the default value when you select them from the right click menu are enclosed by one set of [ ]

Qu5Xy6f.png

Here I have 70% Arrow recovery set, and the default value of 33% is marked by the single brackets

But on the Selected Tweaks, all settings which have not been changed have double brackets to make them distinct from changed values with only single brackets.

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@alt3rn1ty Excellent, thank you and perfect timing. I was just going over them and that's exactly what I wanted to know.

To get the defaults for these I loaded up the CK with just Skyrim.esm to confirm the values.

Still plugging away. It may take me a couple more days to get everything prettied up.

 

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Install Last = "Moves the package to the end of the order list and installs it."

http://wrye-bash.github.io/docs/Wrye Bash Advanced Readme.html#bainInstall

Just noticed that quoted text above should be a tooltip text for hovering your mouse over the Install Last option .. But it has not been added as a tooltip in Wrye Bash

Nor do any of the Install options (Install / Install Last / Install missing), whereas Uninstall does have tooltip description text.

749hKBN.png

 

I never had a use for it personally, if I were to desire that I would just drag it to last and then right click install .. its a weird one :)

But weird or not, there may well be many users who occasionally appreciate it who do not frequent here, the original team saw a need for it, so apart from it being possibly annoying is that reason enough to remove it?, though I do not use it personally I have never found it to be any kind of hazard to occasionally trip up on.

Is @Utumno happy to remove its function ?

 

Edit : Actually I can imagine a use case for this, take a none modified game, with loads of uninstalled installers .. And the user wants to start slotting these into a custom install order as they work through them, that command could occasionally be useful for speedily installing it but throwing it to the end of the install order to ensure it becomes one of his / her install last replacer mods (small loose texture replacers for example which dont want to be overridden by large loose texture replacer collections of textures).

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1 minute ago, alt3rn1ty said:

Just noticed that quoted text above should be a tooltip text for hovering your mouse over the Install Last option .. But it has not been added as a tooltip in Wrye Bash

Nor do any of the Install options (Install / Install Last / Install missing), whereas Uninstall does have tooltip description text.

<snip>

But weird or not, there may well be many users who occasionally appreciate it who do not frequent here, the original team saw a need for it, so apart from it being possibly annoying is that reason enough to remove it?, though I do not use it personally I have never found it to be any kind of hazard to occasionally trip up on.

Is @Utumno happy to remove its function ?

Hey I can fix that :P

But yeah I think I'm going to stick "Install Last" under "Package" rather than remove it. That'll retain the functionality but hopefully reduce the accidental click risk.

That is if Utumno wants to keep it.

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If that goes into Package, then logically Anneal, Install, and Install Missing should too .. But then they become what were previously handy commands going deeper into a sub menu so they are all not so readily available anymore .. UI choices here are awkward :)

Also see my edit previous post, I have just been trying it imagining the scenario of many mods being filed into place in the overall install order and not needing to scroll to the end of the list all the time where many mods zips are involved, Install Last is actually quite useful

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Trying to start a new installation of SSE and when I install and archive with wrye bash it shows green as if having been installed, on the right pane it shows a lot of matching files, but when I navigate to Skyrim Special Edition\Data in windows explorer the files aren't there... Using utumno WIP linked in the second post of this thread.

I actually set up bash.ini with the correct paths to the game and installer folders. The mods window shows the game's five plugins and the bashed patch, all green.

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So, a peculiar thing. I'm using Rich Skryrim Merchants, https://rd.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1772, using the "RichMerchantsSkyrim_x5.esp, with perks" variant, and it contains vendor leveled item updates. WB thinks the plugin is mergable, but when I look at the patch afterwards while it contains appropriate vendor records, the count values are what is found in Skyrim.esp. It's as though WB has generated new records but dropped the actual values it needs to update the records with on the floor.

What's more interesting is that if I mark RichMerhantsSkyrim_x5.esp as not mergable, then also contains updated vendor leveled item records, but again these contain only vanilla values, not the values from the plugin. This means that I can only have this plugin take effect if I move it after the bashed patch.

Is this a known thing? I'm using "Wyre Smash 307.201801021732", standalone executable build.

Update: Fixed it. When I looked at the plugin with LOOT it had a "Relev" tag attached to it, but this was not appearing in WB itself. When I manually added it in WB it started behaving itself properly.

Edited by Winterlove
Fix found
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@godescalcus no way to reset this setting from the UI - you have to delete BashSettings.dat. More info is needed on SSE issues

@Beermotor well looks nice actually - where did Refresh go ? This is a nice opportunity to add help to menu items that don't have any. I will wait till dust settles - I agree a priori with @alt3rn1ty

Re: GMST - keep testing no time to look at this now but maybe will make it for next beta err release. Be aware that we are actually refactoring game handling - keep a close eye stuff may move

Coming to speak of, I pushed new commits in my wip branch by me and @Ganda which need testing - will pack a standalone soonish but python users please test

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3 hours ago, Utumno said:

 

@Beermotor well looks nice actually - where did Refresh go ? This is a nice opportunity to add help to menu items that don't have any. I will wait till dust settles - I agree a priori with @alt3rn1ty

Thanks.  :) Refresh is under the Package submenu. Quick refresh is still on the main right-click menu. 

3 hours ago, Utumno said:

Re: GMST - keep testing no time to look at this now but maybe will make it for next beta err release. Be aware that we are actually refactoring game handling - keep a close eye stuff may move

Coming to speak of, I pushed new commits in my wip branch by me and @Ganda which need testing - will pack a standalone soonish but python users please test

Yes I've been doing all of this off of the main Dev branch since it's closest to what most are using currently, but the changes still work fine with the latest WIP branch with the game handling changes. That's actually what I was waiting on.

I'm feeling poorly again today (the weather went from 8F to 66F in 24 hours) but I'm going to try to get something useful out in the next few days. I'm having trouble making a release though despite following the directions to a T.  I may just do a python-only version off of my fork.

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And finally, here it is.

Beermotor's Skyrim/Skyrim SE Tweaks Test build

Download from GitHub

This is a Python-only build, so you need to be running Wrye Bash in Python-mode. This build also assumes you are running stock Beta 2 from the Nexus. Eventually I'll redo this on the Utumno-WIP branch, but for now I want as many people to test as possible.

How to use:

  1. Be running Beta 2, or anything pre-game handling change. If you are running Beta 2 off the Nexus you're good to go.
  2. Back up your Wrye Bash settings
  3. Back up your Mopy folder.
  4. Unzip the contents of the Mopy folder inside the zip package and overwrite files when prompted.
  5.  Run Wrye Bash

Major Changes:

Installer Tab right-click menu

  • The menu has been reorganized and now has fly-out menus.
  • The most commonly used actions are still on the main right-click menu.
  • Install Last is under the "Package" submenu.

More Bashed Patcher GMST Tweaks!

  • Works for Skyrim and Skyrim SE.
  • Fallout 4 tweaks coming once research is completed.
  • If you find a tweak that does nothing, or works strangely please let me know.
  • If you have suggestions for GMST tweaks please let me know

The copy I run from day to day is based on Utumno-WIP so this is kind of a back port. 

Please do not bother @Utumno or post to the main Wrye Bash repository Issues section for issues with this build. I'll either close them or direct you to my issue tracker. Posting here (make sure to @ me) is the preferred method.

Enjoy!

Quick Disclaimer:

While this is based on Beta 2 and is (mostly) functionally identical, it does change GMSTs in the Bashed Patch and may eat your firstborn, wreck your saves, etc. Consider this Alpha software and use at your own risk.

Edited by Beermotor
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On 20/01/2018 at 5:34 PM, Utumno said:

@godescalcus no way to reset this setting from the UI - you have to delete BashSettings.dat. More info is needed on SSE issues

Seems to have been resolved by totally reinstalling WB, keeping only bash.ini and the apps folder. Also deleted the working directory containing installers, etc.

Seems like a lot of SSE mods' script sources have been packed differently than in LE. Whereas there you'd pack the sources in #yourmod/scripts/source, many SSE mods come packed with the sources in #yourmod/source/scripts (which is totally nonsense, why nest a scripts folder inside sources if all that goes into sources are script sources? and why put a new folder in the root data folder, unless it's the CK that's been changed too). Anyway, WB doesn't recognize this new arrangement as legit and greys it out.

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On 1/21/2018 at 5:02 PM, godescalcus said:

Seems like a lot of SSE mods' script sources have been packed differently than in LE. Whereas there you'd pack the sources in #yourmod/scripts/source, many SSE mods come packed with the sources in #yourmod/source/scripts (which is totally nonsense, why nest a scripts folder inside sources if all that goes into sources are script sources? and why put a new folder in the root data folder, unless it's the CK that's been changed too). Anyway, WB doesn't recognize this new arrangement as legit and greys it out.

Yes that stems back to how Bethesda incorrectly packed the scripts for SSE which required people to have to either rearrange the scripts into the right folders or edit their SSE CK ini file to locate the script sources in that backwards arrangement. It's possible that mod authors that don't know any better (or don't care) released their source in the backwards way as well.

The games require scripts be in \data\scripts so Wrye Bash is correct in showing \data\source\scripts as invalid. You can always unpack to project and put the script folders in the correct order.

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2 hours ago, Utumno said:

RE: icons resize crash - check if you have windows 7 compat mode on - apparently removing this fixes the crash : https://github.com/wrye-bash/wrye-bash/issues/334#issuecomment-360122303

I'm not running in compat mode on either of my test set ups. I have accumulated a lot of info over the past several weeks of testing. I don't really know what to do with it.

I have consistent crash on icon resize with certain combinations of set up and inconsistent crash with other set ups.

I'm leaning toward a combo of MS ASLR, MS DEP and Fault Tolerant Heap interaction as a significant part of the problem for the inconsistent crashing.

I'm leaning toward memory call or write to disk surrounding the .dat files as the cause of the consistent crash and as a catalyst for the inconsistent crashing.

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I assume the following is intentional (don't know specifically why), but BAIN doesn't recognize packages that start with anything with "Bash" in the name of the package.  Bashed, Bashers, Bash, Bashing, etc. the package just doesn't show.

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7 hours ago, lmstearn said:

No compatibility mode here- but curious if others experiencing this run AMD graphic drivers (res here is 768p.)

I am running AMD graphics on my two test machines. 2560 x 1440 and 2560 x 1600

I do have two nVidia graphics equipped machines but I don't usually game on them.

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Win 10 NVidia Graphics - Not using Win 7 compatability mode - I still occasionally get the Icon size issue. Something I noticed I can make it happen just about guaranteed if I dont have Wrye Bash installed (all dat files cleaned out) and after re-installing the Standalone I go directly to setting the Icon size via the toolbar settings to 32

After it crashes load up again and then I dont have the issue on subsequent changes to the icon size.

-------------------------

Fallout 4 updated last night ( may have been a few days ago, I dont usually have the steam client launch with windows )

New files as far as I have seen include :

The game exe

ccc file in the same folder as the game exe

Interface bsa

meshes bsa

plus a couple of new ccc mod files

307.beta2 Standalone does not seem to be having any issues with any of it so far.

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On 1/27/2018 at 1:06 AM, alt3rn1ty said:

Win 10 NVidia Graphics - Not using Win 7 compatability mode - I still occasionally get the Icon size issue. Something I noticed I can make it happen just about guaranteed if I dont have Wrye Bash installed (all dat files cleaned out) and after re-installing the Standalone I go directly to setting the Icon size via the toolbar settings to 32

After it crashes load up again and then I dont have the issue on subsequent changes to the icon size.

 

This fits in with one aspect of the crashes that I observed when resizing the icons.

I can have Pythonw (Wrye Bash) set up to crash most of the time (95%+) or not crash most of the time (95%+) or randomly crash.

I can toggle between crashing most of the time and not crashing most of the time by doing the following:

In the installer tab, right click on the columns header and select "Full Refresh" from the drop down menu.

So far this works every time. If its crashing it changes to not crashing. It its not crashing it changes to crashing.

To be correct Pythonw does not actually crash. The process is suspended by MS Windows and can't be restarted without choosing to close the program, which is the only option available from the dialogue box that Windows pops on screen.

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Resizing the icons was hacked in - I don't think that the dat files have anything to do - they are not written anyway when icon size changes. I think this is a bug in the ancient wx version we use that will probably go away once we update to newer wx. Meanwhile if anyone can debug this in MS Visual studio please do

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