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Auriel's Bow = Daedric?


Ethruvisil

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Hi,

I understand that bug fix #14798 makes Auriel's Bow count as a Daedric artifact.

I think this should be undone. All lore and in-game dialogue clearly establish that Auriel is not a Daedra, and that there is nothing Daedric about his bow. In fact, the idea seems pretty absurd to me. Granted, you can (facultatively) use it with blood-cursed arrows that are (indirectly) linked to Molag Bal, but that's far from making the bow a Daedric artifact.

If the game code seems to suggest that it was meant to be a Daedric artifact, this is either a major oversight, or possibly a scrapped idea (like Molag Bal might have been planned to "spoil" the bow and turn it into his own artifact - but nothing like that happens in-game).

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I really see your point as I have found this:

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Auri-El (also called Auriel), King of the Aldmer, is the elven variant of Akatosh. Auri-El is the soul of Anui-El, who, in turn, is the soul of Anu the Everything. He is the chief of most Aldmeri pantheons. Most Altmeri and Bosmeri claim direct descent from Auri-El. In Valenwood, he is known as Auri-El Time Dragon, king of the gods. Snow Elves and Ayleids also worshipped him. However, Auri-El is thought to be only the ancestor of the upper castes in early Aldmeri society, and was adopted by other Aldmer to better emulate their social "betters". When he formed, time began.

Maybe, though for simplicity sake they simply made it a Deadric artifact for the relation to the main daedra being "gods"or "God-like" as any other change to denote it's specialty might have gone way beyond the scope of the patch.

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However I also just read the fix and it actually says nothing about including it as a daedric artifact anywhere in the game....

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FS#14798 - DLC1VQ07AurielsBowAliasScript: Cannot call IncDaedricArtifacts() on a None object

This is a fix for a error in a script... Do you even know what that call relates to in the game? The original script had the function and it was broken. They fixed it. What are you really on about here then? It is likely a improperly named sripct function by the games devs for -god like level- items. Not just Daedric.

This actually makes no difference visually or lore wise in the game.

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Here's the entry from the patch's version history:

Quote
  • The alias for Auriel's Bow on Touching the Sky (DLC1VQ07) was missing the property for the Achievements script so it never incremented the Daedric artifact counter. (Bug #14798)

The fix has also been confirmed to work: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim_talk:Daedric_Quests#Auriel.27s_Bow_Counts_Towards_This_Achievement

I don't know if the script has some other function as well, but if this is the only thing it does, it should just be deactivated completely.

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Nope. Attachment of the script is clear indication of their intent to have it count toward the achievement. You have no idea how many unset property bugs just like it we've fixed over the years. This is not going to get reverted out because it's a legitimate bugfix.

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I do have an idea from the sheer length of the patchlist ;-)

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel like you didn't get my point. If the script didn't work the way it should, okay, that's a bug that should be fixed. But if the script then does something that is objectively wrong, that's another bug (in a broader sense), and that bug should be fixed as well, shouldn't it? I thought his patch fixed inconsistencies to lore and dialogue as well as technical bugs. This is the same as correcting the Black Star to only accept black souls, or as editing voiced dialogue to eliminate mistakes.

Is there any doubt about Auriel not being a Daedra? There's lots of lore about him being an Aedra, and in-game dialogue, too - Serana says he lives in Aetherius (not Oblivion), and that the bow draws its power from there; Gelebor says Auriel is Akatosh, who is also known to be an Aedra. Like I elaborated in my first post, there might have been an intent to make the bow a Daedric artifact, but it's clearly either a mistake or a scrapped idea.

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Overriding the inconsistency is the fact that someone intentionally placed a script on the item and then for whatever reason it's property wasn't set. Proving they didn't intend to ever put that script on there is a lot harder to justify.

Comparing this to the black star situation isn't valid because they made an attempt at it that simply didn't work and had to be modified to make it work, so they're both objectively bugs.

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@Ethruvisil

You appear to be missing a point here: That script does NOT make the bow a Daedric artifact (nor does the patch!). It only makes it that the bow counts for the Daedric artifacts achievement.  You could as well attach the script to any weapon in the game, and all it does would be to increment the achievement count when the player obtains that weapon. It does not automatically make any weapon it is running on a Daedric artifact though.

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Well, the achievement is for "Collect[ing] 15 Daedric Artifacts", so having the bow count for it technically means that it is, in fact, a Daedric Artifact. The achievement text is pretty unambiguous about it.

Other examples of the USKP fixing lore inconsistencies that aren't bugs include the Vigilants of Stendarr not carrying Daedric weapons, Wuuthrad's bonus damage on Orcs, ... True, those fixes only add a property instead of completely reverting something. But I still stand by my theory that they intended something else with it - forgetting the difference between Aedra and Daedra is just so obviously wrong...

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Wow another one who would rather just whine and bitch about all the free work done here. You do know it is just as easy for you to not use the patch right? It is also just as easy for you to make a fix that reverses this change and pot it on the Nexus. You got your answer.

The works done here was done for free with thousands of hours of work and ungrateful dweebs like you come along and try to discourage these people who put all of this work in for free. Quite trying to p!ss in everyone's pool. You have no clue how much work goes into this and they still spend their time answering complainers like you.

 

Remember you get what you pay for. SO unless you have sent money to every developer who works on USLEEP you just need to not use the patch if you are so unhappy.

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@Ethruvisil

Something that you're either missing (or ignoring) here is that we have proof of intent in every one of these instances. Arthmoor (and others) already touched on that with the script and Auriel's Bow. These other things that you're mentioning also have proof of intent or we wouldn't have touched them in the first place. I don't really think it's necessary to have to keep on justifying the reasons behind why we made the changes we did; that's why there are beta periods for people to express their concerns. The only thing that is going to get any of these reversed is a message directly from Todd Howard himself saying that the way they were in vanilla was correct.

Kelsenellnelvian is right in saying that if you don't like some of the changes we made, you can easily make your own personal fix file to reverse them. These changes have been in the patch for years now and 99% of people are either okay with them or don't care so I don't think there's any point in debating this any longer, especially since we're doing this stuff for the community with zero financial compensation for our time.

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This thread is devolving into a bitchfest for no good reason so we're going to lock it now.

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  • Arthmoor locked this topic
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