Skyrim transparency and mesh backfaces

[finius]

   If anyone has a knowledge and a few minutes..

 

   I noticed that models with gradient transparent textures seem to create small borders, like an outline, around the edge of the transparent section that "show through" the entire mesh, even if there is a non-transparent part of the model below it. Is there a way to prevent this?

 

   Can backfaces of mesh triangles be non-transparent? This is for objects that aren't closed, where the backfaces are exposed. I was thinking it could be done 'manually' by having all faces duplicated with the normal acing the opposite direction on each one of the twin faces. That seems a little heavy handed though, doubling the faces in the mesh.. Is there a better way to that? If that is a way to do it, is there an automated way to create the 'backface' faces in blender?

 

Thanks!

[Hana]

SLSF_2_Double_Sided.

 

That's if I'm understanding what you're asking.

[finius]

   Heh, was coming on here to say a little more poking around discovered that.. Yay for aptly labeled flag. It does indeed work, too. Thanks!

 

   The transparent outline still is a problem, but it's small detail, the double-sided was a much bigger improvement.

 

 

   More question..  For a .nif intending to contain a "skin" model (actual skyrim skin, not referring to a generic mesh), is it possible to have more than one texture set specified in the model entry in the Construction Kit? The texture set setting looks like it's a dropdown box only, and setting an alternate texture in the model selection popup doesn't work.

   I have two different triShapes in the.nif, with a "skinned" mesh aready in the game and I want to add the other trishape mesh into the .nif, also as a "skin" texture so that selecting a body tint works for it, but it doesn't look like more than one texture set can be set per Armor-Addon set with a skin textureset.

   Can create a new armor-addon, but then it'll occupy a new slot on the characters..  Is there a way to have two different objects occupy the same slot and display at the same time?

 

   So, basically, one armor addon item, set with a skin textureset, two different trishapes in the model, each trishape needing a different textureset, and the textureset needing to be a "skin" set that gets body tone adjustments in the character creator (so can't be a static texture, like the UV sets number being 4097, I think).

[Hana]

Is there a way to have two different objects occupy the same slot and display at the same time?

No.

 

is it possible to have more than one texture set specified in the model entry in the Construction Kit?

Yes. About halfway through my tutorial here, you can see how you can apply a texture set to each TriShape in your model.

 

So, basically, one armor addon item, set with a skin textureset, two different trishapes in the model, each trishape needing a different textureset, and the textureset needing to be a "skin" set that gets body tone adjustments in the character creator (so can't be a static texture, like the UV sets number being 4097, I think).

Right. If you want that TriShape to act like skin, it needs to be set in the .nif as skin - the BS Num UV sets = 1, no normals, Shader Type SkinTint, etc, just like skin, and multiple texture sets as per above.

[MadCat221]

SLSF_2_Double_Sided isn't quite perfect.  If you want both sides to truly be double-sided, you'll need to create the second surface to face the other way.  Otherwise, both sides will have the same lighting hue as the front side of the faces in question.

[finius]

   I've been working a little more on this. Cleaned up the files, learned more stuff...

 

   One discovery I thought might be good to share is that, for anything with Object Space normals ( "Model space" or the _msn normal maps), trying to set any alpha property on it at all causes shadows to go nuts. It seems like the shadow application then follows the camera orientation or something like that. I was specficailly trying to get alpha properties on part of the body skin, which normally has model-space normals.

   Interestingly, the thing I thought was "cheesy" works just fine to get it working.. In the texture set in the construction kit, set the textureset to have model space normals. In the actual .nif, for whatever trishape part of the model should have alpha, instead set BS UV Set = 4097, and include normals and the tan- bitan- information. Also set the shader flag for model space normals off.. Then you have to combine the textures. The _msn file with normals should include both the Tangent-based and object-based normal (have to "normalize" the parts separately in nvidia tools if you do that.. ), and also include the specular map for that section as an alpha channel in the _msn file.. Seems to work just fine, heh. By getting the alpha-ed trishape using tangent normals, the shadows seem alright.

   Anything that isn't a "body skin" model would normally be using tangent normals anyway, so this is pretty specific.

   Only thing I still see is a halo-outline around the part when it passes over shadows, but it isn't that noticeable.

 

 

 

   The double-sided shader flag does have the lighting problem, which is kinda noticeable in bright light in this case... I don't think it can be fixed, though. I tried doubling up the vertices for the model, reversing the normal and the face loops for that doubled part. It does indeed work, and looks fine in 3D programs, but the game seems to not handle that well. The two sides take turns being "visible", which doesn't entirely make sense since the "incorrect" visible part is supposed to be a backface in that instance and not be seen... I think the shadows go a little nuts, too.

   If anyone has done this manual-double sided thing before and got it working, would just be interesting to know.